god, jesus, holy spirit before family? Really?

[ninerbuff]

A friend of mine who has a wonderful family (wife is beautiful, kids are straight students and overachieving) said he would always take god first (I'm also assuming jesus and holy spirit too) over family.
I will NEVER understand this and if really put to the test would he really do it?
In other words, if god "spoke" to him to leave his family for some "spiritual trek", would he really do it? If you were in his position would you?
For me family first and foremost. No if's ands or buts.

 

[sojourner]

Perhaps he means that his family resides within the larger paradigm of God, and not ancillary to it...

 

[Reptillian]

I have a religious friend that said to me in passing, "My priorities are God, then family, then friends". I replied, "In the absence of God, family and friends move up a notch".

 

[fallingblood]

A friend of mine who has a wonderful family (wife is beautiful, kids are straight students and overachieving) said he would always take god first (I'm also assuming jesus and holy spirit too) over family.
I will NEVER understand this and if really put to the test would he really do it?
In other words, if god "spoke" to him to leave his family for some "spiritual trek", would he really do it? If you were in his position would you?
For me family first and foremost. No if's ands or buts.

Would God ask such a thing? No. Putting God first does not mean one has to forsake their family, or even leave the possibility open. Putting God first also requires one to love and cherish their family, as that is something that God gave to that person.

It really isn't God or family. It is God and family.

 

[Riverwolf]

A friend of mine who has a wonderful family (wife is beautiful, kids are straight students and overachieving) said he would always take god first (I'm also assuming jesus and holy spirit too) over family.
I will NEVER understand this and if really put to the test would he really do it?
In other words, if god "spoke" to him to leave his family for some "spiritual trek", would he really do it? If you were in his position would you?
For me family first and foremost. No if's ands or buts.

You must understand something.

God is the only real permanence. God does not end. Even the greatest family will end one day. His wife will one day die, his children will one day live on their own. Family is impermanent. Seeing as both can, in life, provide the same amount of joy and peace, many theists would rather choose the permanent joy over the impermanent joy.

That said, I personally believe that theistic parents should consider their familial duties as being offered to God. Thus, if he receives some sort of "calling" to go on a spiritual journey somewhere else, before he does this, he first of all reassures his family that it's not permanent, and keeps that promise. Second, he DOES NOT LEAVE unless he can be reasonably certain that the family will be set without him for whatever time he's gone, which really shouldn't be longer than a few months. (I use "he" just for sentence flow; this would apply to mothers as well.) And, of course, he would need some sort of confirmation that it was, in fact, an instruction from God and not a self-made dream. (Or, at least, I would.) If these conditions are not met, he does not leave his family.

 

[no-body]

Would God ask such a thing? No. Putting God first does not mean one has to forsake their family, or even leave the possibility open. Putting God first also requires one to love and cherish their family, as that is something that God gave to that person.

It really isn't God or family. It is God and family.

Jesus disagrees with you, anyways:

Matthew 10:34 “Do not think that I came to bring peace on Earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.”

Luke 12:49 "I have come to cast fire upon the Earth; and how I wish it were already kindled! But I have a baptism to undergo, and how distressed I am until it is accomplished! Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

Jesus even thinks you have to hate yourself more than you love him:

Luke 14:26“If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.”

Of course such verses are really pointing to cessation of the ego, but it's fun to play the fundamentalist game of taking the bible literally to show what a monster Jesus is.

 

[ChristineES]

I figure, that when I put God first, I will automatically take care of my family as best I know how. My kids are very important to me.

 

[fallingblood]

Jesus disagrees with you, anyways:

Jesus even thinks you have to hate yourself more than you love him:

Of course such verses are really pointing to cessation of the ego, but it's fun to play the fundamentalist game of taking the bible literally to show what a monster Jesus is.

The problem with "playing" such a game is that one has to purposely has to take verses and ideas out of context (both literary and historical).

 

[ninerbuff]

Would God ask such a thing? No. Putting God first does not mean one has to forsake their family, or even leave the possibility open. Putting God first also requires one to love and cherish their family, as that is something that God gave to that person.

It really isn't God or family. It is God and family.

Would you say that to people who choose prayer to god over medical healing if their child was deathly ill?

 

[ninerbuff]

You must understand something.

God is the only real permanence. God does not end. Even the greatest family will end one day. His wife will one day die, his children will one day live on their own. Family is impermanent. Seeing as both can, in life, provide the same amount of joy and peace, many theists would rather choose the permanent joy over the impermanent joy.

That said, I personally believe that theistic parents should consider their familial duties as being offered to God. Thus, if he receives some sort of "calling" to go on a spiritual journey somewhere else, before he does this, he first of all reassures his family that it's not permanent, and keeps that promise. Second, he DOES NOT LEAVE unless he can be reasonably certain that the family will be set without him for whatever time he's gone, which really shouldn't be longer than a few months. (I use "he" just for sentence flow; this would apply to mothers as well.) And, of course, he would need some sort of confirmation that it was, in fact, an instruction from God and not a self-made dream. (Or, at least, I would.) If these conditions are not met, he does not leave his family.

Years ago I had a very good friend who was, and still is, a very devout christian. His love for christianity was so strong he preached about it all the time. Eventually the Air Force deemed him slightly crazy because he chose to spend time preaching rather than deal with some of his family issues. I am still in contact with his kids, but they've told me he still is more enamored with god than them.
I've found out first hand that it can actually cause dysfunction if approached with a "god first" attitude.

 

[Riverwolf]

Years ago I had a very good friend who was, and still is, a very devout christian. His love for christianity was so strong he preached about it all the time. Eventually the Air Force deemed him slightly crazy because he chose to spend time preaching rather than deal with some of his family issues. I am still in contact with his kids, but they've told me he still is more enamored with god than them.
I've found out first hand that it can actually cause dysfunction if approached with a "god first" attitude.

The first and foremost rule in the spiritual journey, whether theistic or atheistic, is about avoiding harming others if at all possible, and this is especially true in the case of family. If his excessive preaching is causing harm to his family, then he needs to stop. He can declare the glory of God early in the morning and late at night, but during the day, he needs to attend his duties as a parent.

Believe me; I don't think that kind of thing is what Sages and Scriptures were talking about when they taught to put God above all else.

 

[fallingblood]

Would you say that to people who choose prayer to god over medical healing if their child was deathly ill?

That is going to an extreme. And really, they are still thinking that they are doing the best for their children. They are doing what they feel is right in order to have this child healed. Yes, they are misinformed, but that doesn't mean they are purposely harming their child.

 

[sojourner]

Years ago I had a very good friend who was, and still is, a very devout christian. His love for christianity was so strong he preached about it all the time. Eventually the Air Force deemed him slightly crazy because he chose to spend time preaching rather than deal with some of his family issues. I am still in contact with his kids, but they've told me he still is more enamored with god than them.
I've found out first hand that it can actually cause dysfunction if approached with a "god first" attitude.

That's not love for God -- that's obsession with God.:thud:

 

[Riverwolf]

That's not love for God -- that's obsession with God.:thud:

And obsession with God is perfectly fine... for renunciates!

 

[Katzpur]

You must understand something.

God is the only real permanence. God does not end. Even the greatest family will end one day. His wife will one day die, his children will one day live on their own. Family is impermanent.

Maybe to you, but not to me. I believe that God intended families to be eternal in nature and that our relationships with our family members will never end. Since we are all ultimately the children of the same Father in Heaven, we are all a part of His family, too. God wants His entire family to remain intact. In order for that to happen, our individual families must form the building blocks of the larger structure. So it's really not an either/or kind of thing to me.

 

[crocusj]

Would God ask such a thing? No. Putting God first does not mean one has to forsake their family, or even leave the possibility open. Putting God first also requires one to love and cherish their family, as that is something that God gave to that person.

It really isn't God or family. It is God and family.

Abraham and Isaac?

 

[fallingblood]

Abraham and Isaac?

Was either of them sacrificed? No. Was either one harmed? No. Instead, God rewarded both of them, and in context, we can see that God never planned for Isaac to be harmed.

 

[Tristesse]

Was either of them sacrificed? No. Was either one harmed? No. Instead, God rewarded both of them, and in context, we can see that God never planned for Isaac to be harmed.

Where the horror of this story lies, is in the fact that Abraham believed that this is something that his god would and did ask of him, to sacrifice his son. The correct response when a proposed diety asks you to sacrifice your child is, "NO, you must be a demon, because a god I worship would never ask me to do such a thing." Instead, Ahbraham has it in his mind that, yes, this is something my god would ask of me.

 

[crocusj]

Was either of them sacrificed? No. Was either one harmed? No. Instead, God rewarded both of them, and in context, we can see that God never planned for Isaac to be harmed.

Are you suggesting that the emotional trauma undoubtedly suffered by both Abraham and his son constituted no harm? Had it been you and yours, would you not have cursed god for his indulgence at the expence of your wellbeing? Would you at no point put your familly first?

 

[fallingblood]

Where the horror of this story lies, is in the fact that Abraham believed that this is something that his god would and did ask of him, to sacrifice his son. The correct response when a proposed diety asks you to sacrifice your child is, "NO, you must be a demon, because a god I worship would never ask me to do such a thing." Instead, Ahbraham has it in his mind that, yes, this is something my god would ask of me.

You are projecting 21st century ideas onto a time period in which they did not exist. You are also making it seem as if Abraham had no problem with the idea, which the story does in fact state that he did.

Also, it doesn't suggest that is something Abraham had thought his god would ask. To him, it seemed as if it was surprise. However, Abraham does show that he believed that God had something more in store for him. And again, he did struggle with the idea.