God, Job, and Satan

[Spruce]

My mother, who is Catholic, and I have recently been discussing Job and Satan and Satan's "wager" with God regarding Job. We've also been discussing Satan's fall and the differences between Satan's "defiance" and Job's.

My first question for you is why is Job's questioning God different from Satan's? They both defied God, yet God was understanding and patient with Job and not Satan.

My other questions will come later as the conversation develops.

Please note, I am not very familiar with the Bible, which is one reason I am here - to learn about the various interpretations of this book.

Spruce

 

[Spruce]

. . .

 

[Desert Snake]

^This a green DIR, means only Xians are really supposed to discuss the topics here, that means people like me who might be interested in discussion might not answer. just a heads up

 

[Spruce]

^This a green DIR, means only Xians are really supposed to discuss the topics here, that means people like me who might be interested in discussion might not answer. just a heads up

Oh. Where do I post my question?

 

[Desert Snake]

Oh. Where do I post my question?

The non-colored DIRs are for anyone, plus allow debate./ if it's a debate dir/ It all depends what 'kind' of discussion you want. The dreen DIR's are good if you want opinions that are more specific with less debate, but if you really want no debate and stricter format, the blue dIR's are better for that. So, it depends on what you want, really.

 

[Spruce]

Okay. Thank you.

 

[te_lanus]

The Satan of Job is not the same Satan that we know today.

For one the new testamental satan, was cast out of heaven and its said that he can't go back. Satan in Job seems to be able to enter Heaven at will, and without God "fearing that Satan will try to influance the angels still in heaven

One has to remember that satan, like most things in an active evolving religion, changed over time. Satan in Job preserves an early incarnation of evil as understood at the time,

 

[Spruce]

The Satan of Job is not the same Satan that we know today.

For one the new testamental satan, was cast out of heaven and its said that he can't go back. Satan in Job seems to be able to enter Heaven at will, and without God "fearing that Satan will try to influance the angels still in heaven

One has to remember that satan, like most things in an active evolving religion, changed over time. Satan in Job preserves an early incarnation of evil as understood at the time,

Doesn't that imply that man affects who Satan is?

 

[Sleeppy]

The author of Job wasn't expecting to have every word be accurate from every angle.. It's a story- a fabrication, that was taught in a certain manner, to get certain morals across.

 

[te_lanus]

Doesn't that imply that man affects who Satan is?

Yip it does. Up to 75% of what the church believe about satan is based on books written in the last 500-600 years. Dante's Inferno and Paradise Lost, these two books had more influence on the church's view on satan, than what the bible has

 

[URAVIP2ME]

We've also been discussing Satan's fall and the differences between Satan's "defiance" and Job's.

My first question for you is why is Job's questioning God different from Satan's? They both defied God, yet God was understanding and patient with Job and not Satan.
Spruce

What verse [ verses ] do you have in mind about Job defying God ?

Suffering Job struggled with despair and just became somewhat self centered.
God lovingly helped Job with his narrow viewpoint by asking Job 70 questions none of which Job could answer thus showing Job's limitations in understanding the issues involved. Didn't Job react in a humble way by adjusting his viewpoint ?________
- Job 42 vs 1-6

Back at Job 32 v 2 Job justified himself or tried to prove himself right. How does that show Job defied God? Remember Job did Not know why things were happening to him. When Job was close to death, Job was overly concerned with vindicating himself. Job declared his own soul as righteous and Elihu reproved Job with a positive message for Job - Job 33 vs 24,25 - repent and God would be pleased to accept Job's sacrifice - Job 42 vs 6 - 8.

 

[Nada]

What verse [ verses ] do you have in mind about Job defying God ?

Suffering Job struggled with despair and just became somewhat self centered.
God lovingly helped Job with his narrow viewpoint by asking Job 70 questions none of which Job could answer thus showing Job's limitations in understanding the issues involved. Didn't Job react in a humble way by adjusting his viewpoint ?________
- Job 42 vs 1-6

Back at Job 32 v 2 Job justified himself or tried to prove himself right. How does that show Job defied God? Remember Job did Not know why things were happening to him. When Job was close to death, Job was overly concerned with vindicating himself. Job declared his own soul as righteous and Elihu reproved Job with a positive message for Job - Job 33 vs 24,25 - repent and God would be pleased to accept Job's sacrifice - Job 42 vs 6 - 8.

And Job assumed it was God who was doing all of that to him when all along it was satan.

 

[neologist]

The Satan of Job is not the same Satan that we know today.

For one the new testamental satan, was cast out of heaven and its said that he can't go back. Satan in Job seems to be able to enter Heaven at will, and without God "fearing that Satan will try to influance the angels still in heaven

One has to remember that satan, like most things in an active evolving religion, changed over time. Satan in Job preserves an early incarnation of evil as understood at the time,

It's the same Satan who once was a perfect angel and decided to challenge God's authority in the 3rd chapter of Genesis. He has continued challenging and accusing God until this day, demanding, for example, the most beloved of God's children to be sacrificed in the time of Pilate. It is only his access to heaven which is denied in this day. Soon, we have reason to hope his access to earth will be denied. (Think: "Thy will be done on earth as in heaven .. . ")

 

[te_lanus]

It is only his access to heaven which is denied in this day.

Yet it's stated in Job that Satan is in heaven with the "Sons of God"

Job 1:6 One day the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them.

thius the Statement you made (which is currently accepted in all the Churches, holds no water. Since how can Satan be denied access to Heaven (as according to the Church), and then In Job 1:6 He presents himself to God in Heaven, and God doesn't kick him out. Clearly the Statement of satan not being able to enter Heaven (almost at will) isn't Biblical according to Job. But later text do make your point. Thus I still hold firm that Satan in Job isn't the Same as the one the Church warn us about. Satan is a imported Idea from Zoroastrianism. Before the Exile satan was an angel in God's servitude, After the Exile to Babylon he became Evil reincarnate .

 

[neologist]

Yet it's stated in Job that Satan is in heaven with the "Sons of God"

thius the Statement you made (which is currently accepted in all the Churches, holds no water. Since how can Satan be denied access to Heaven (as according to the Church), and then In Job 1:6 He presents himself to God in Heaven, and God doesn't kick him out. Clearly the Statement of satan not being able to enter Heaven (almost at will) isn't Biblical according to Job. But later text do make your point. Thus I still hold firm that Satan in Job isn't the Same as the one the Church warn us about. Satan is a imported Idea from Zoroastrianism. Before the Exile satan was an angel in God's servitude, After the Exile to Babylon he became Evil reincarnate .

Satan doesn't get kicked out of heaven until Revelation 12:9.
It took a while. But time is never a problem with God.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Satan doesn't get kicked out of heaven until Revelation 12:9.
It took a while. But time is never a problem with God.

Yes, the setting or time frame of Revelation [ 1 v 10 ] is Not set in the past such as in Job, nor set in the 1st century, but Revelation is set for our day or time frame which is in connection to the MAJOR fulfillment of Jesus' composite sign [ with many global features or events ] of Matthew chapter 24 and Luke chapter 21.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Satan didn't "ask questions". He created a rebellion in heaven and worked to help corrupt Adam and Eve. Job had questions but stayed committed, as in Job's first chapter: "The Lord gives and takes, blessed be the Lord."

 

[Nada]

Satan didn't "ask questions". He created a rebellion in heaven and worked to help corrupt Adam and Eve. Job had questions but stayed committed, as in Job's first chapter: "The Lord gives and takes, blessed be the Lord."

Yes and Job thought it was God who was taking but he was incorrect.It was satan.