God Knows Pain

[Jimmy]

The claim is that if a tri-omni deity existed - omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent - that there would be no gratuitous or useless suffering. It's not hard to imagine other types of gods, so this is not an argument against gods existing. It's an argument against that specific kind of god existing.

How is that relevant? Such knowledge should lead to increased empathy, not increased indifference to suffering.

Also, an omnipotent deity doesn't need a blood sacrifice in order to commune with "sinners" in an afterlife. If the god to which you refer can't do something that you and I can do - be in the presence of "sin" and tolerate it when appropriate - then why call it omnipotent?

Don't feel picked upon. Atheists find no gods to be their cup of tea.

Never said it lead to increased indifference to suffering. I don’t feel picked on.

 

[blü 2]

You always hear people complaining that if there was a God he wouldn’t allow bad things to happen. People seem to forget that his son died. He knows a little something about pain imo.

[His] son died because God sent [his] son on a suicide mission. The gospels make this unambiguous eg Mark 2:20, Mark 8:31, and in all four gospels God refuses the "Let this cup pass from me."

It deeply puzzles me why Christians think it's a terrific thing for God to sacrifice [his] own son to [him]self, especially by a particularly cruel but in those days unexceptional death, when with one snap of those omnipotent fingers [he] could bring about any state of affairs on earth that [he] pleased.

So it seems to miss the point when it comes to God letting bad things happen ─ [he] MAKES them happen when it pleases [him].

Or at least [he] does in the bible stories. Out here in reality, God never appears, never says, never does, and indeed sits on [his] almighty hands and watches the infant drown or the car crash happen or the drug traders prosper &c &c &c. I respectfully submit that the facts make a farce of the idea that a benevolence is in charge of the world.

 

[Trailblazer]

Christianity isn’t for everyone

It isn't for everyone but I thought it was intended to be for everyone....
Otherwise why would Christians go telling people that Christianity is 'the only true religion' and Jesus is 'the only way' to get to heaven?

 

[Jimmy]

[His] son died because God sent [his] son on a suicide mission. The gospels make this unambiguous eg Mark 2:20, Mark 8:31, and in all four gospels God refuses the "Let this cup pass from me."

It deeply puzzles me why Christians think it's a terrific thing for God to sacrifice [his] own son to [him]self, especially by a particularly cruel but in those days unexceptional death, when with one snap of those omnipotent fingers [he] could bring about any state of affairs on earth that [he] pleased.

So it seems to miss the point when it comes to God letting bad things happen ─ [he] MAKES them happen when it pleases [him].

Or at least [he] does in the bible stories. Out here in reality, God never appears, never says, never does, and indeed sits on [his] almighty hands and watches the infant drown or the car crash happen or the drug traders prosper &c &c &c. I respectfully submit that the facts make a farce of the idea that a benevolence is in charge of the world.

Bad things happen because of people not god.

 

[Jimmy]

It isn't for everyone but I thought it was intended to be for everyone....
Otherwise why would Christians go telling people that Christianity is 'the only true religion' and Jesus is 'the only way' to get to heaven?

Idk. They prolly think there’s something worth knowing.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Bad things happen because of people not god

You didn't address his comment about the need for a cruel sacrifice.

And we never blame the product. We blame the manufacturer. If you buy a Ford that turns out to be a lemon, don't let the company tell you it's the car's fault.

 

[Kathryn]

You know what I would rather focus on? The pain and suffering of JESUS, not necessarily God.

 

[Trailblazer]

Bad things happen because of people not god.

So much for Isaiah 45:7

AMP The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing peace and creating disaster; I am the Lord who does all these things.
ERV I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause trouble. I, the Lord, do all these things.
EHV I am the one who forms light and creates darkness, the one who makes peace and creates disaster. I am the Lord, the one who does all these things.
ESV I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things.
TLB I form the light and make the dark. I send good times and bad. I, Jehovah, am he who does these things.
NASB The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating disaster; I am the Lord who does all these things.
NCB I form the light and create the darkness; prosperity and disaster depend upon my will; I, the Lord, do all these things.
NCV I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause troubles. I, the Lord, do all these things.
NIRV I cause light to shine. I also create darkness. I bring good times. I also create hard times. I do all these things. I am the Lord.
NIV I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Trailblazer]

Idk. They prolly think there’s something worth knowing.

What's worth knowing about is Jesus, not the Christian doctrines.

 

[Jimmy]

So much for Isaiah 45:7

AMP The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing peace and creating disaster; I am the Lord who does all these things.
ERV I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause trouble. I, the Lord, do all these things.
EHV I am the one who forms light and creates darkness, the one who makes peace and creates disaster. I am the Lord, the one who does all these things.
ESV I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the Lord, who does all these things.
TLB I form the light and make the dark. I send good times and bad. I, Jehovah, am he who does these things.
NASB The One forming light and creating darkness, Causing well-being and creating disaster; I am the Lord who does all these things.
NCB I form the light and create the darkness; prosperity and disaster depend upon my will; I, the Lord, do all these things.
NCV I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause troubles. I, the Lord, do all these things.
NIRV I cause light to shine. I also create darkness. I bring good times. I also create hard times. I do all these things. I am the Lord.
NIV I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things.

Isaiah 45:7 - Bible Gateway

www.biblegateway.com

Trouble comes when one doesn’t have him imo. Natural disasters are caused by weather not god.

 

[Jimmy]

What's worth knowing about is Jesus, not the Christian doctrines.

I agree although some doctrine is great too

 

[Jimmy]

You didn't address his comment about the need for a cruel sacrifice.

And we never blame the product. We blame the manufacturer. If you buy a Ford that turns out to be a lemon, don't let the company tell you it's the car's fault.

Death comes to all. Even God in the flesh. So one could say God sent himself.

 

[Trailblazer]

Trouble comes when one doesn’t have him imo. Natural disasters are caused by weather not god.

I am not talking about natural disasters.

Trouble comes when people die and leave others behind to grieve.
There is grief whether they have him or not.

Isaiah 45:7
NCV I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause troubles. I, the Lord, do all these things.
NIRV I cause light to shine. I also create darkness. I bring good times. I also create hard times. I do all these things. I am the Lord.

 

[Trailblazer]

Death comes to all. Even God in the flesh. So one could say God sent himself.

Death never comes to God because God is eternal, and that is one way we know that Jesus was not God in the flesh.

 

[Jimmy]

I am not talking about natural disasters.

Trouble comes when people die and leave others behind to grieve.
There is grief whether they have him or not.

Isaiah 45:7
NCV I made the light and the darkness. I bring peace, and I cause troubles. I, the Lord, do all these things.
NIRV I cause light to shine. I also create darkness. I bring good times. I also create hard times. I do all these things. I am the Lord.

Grief comes from love. I don’t see it as a negative. It’s healthy to grieve imo.

 

[Jimmy]

Death never comes to God because God is eternal, and that is one way we know that Jesus was not God in the flesh.

The Bible tells us of a new heaven and new earth….

 

[Trailblazer]

Grief comes from love. I don’t see it as a negative. It’s healthy to grieve.

Pardon me but that is so insensitive.

You don't see it as a negative....
Say that after your spouse of 37 years dies and leaves you all alone with no children or any other family.

 

[Jimmy]

Pardon me but that is so insensitive.

You don't see it as a negative....
Say that after your spouse of 37 years dies and leaves you all alone with no children or any other family.

I’m not talking about anyone in particular

 

[Jimmy]

Pardon me but that is so insensitive.

You don't see it as a negative....
Say that after your spouse of 37 years dies and leaves you all alone with no children or any other family.

Grieving is immensely difficult but it is necessary for healing imo

 

[Trailblazer]

I’m not talking about anyone in particular

I know you're not and that makes it all the worse.