God said it, not me...

[Kenny]

False analogy. What value does a bag of money have if 1% of the bills in it are counterfiet?

False analogy... we don't have a bag of Bibles.

You would need some other reliable source to tell. Or maybe you just can't tell and have to doubt both.

Exactly... but isn't that the issue? Is it reliable or not.

What principles?

To many to enumerate all:

1. Love
2. Marriage
3. Child rearing
4. Investment principles
5. Giving and receiving

If you're trying to claim that any of these thinfs have happened, show me the evidence.

???

First of all, if you have already decided, there is no proof that will convince you.

If someone was healed of cancer, you would say in was spontaneous revision.
If someone had a tumor, you would say it was an anomaly.
If someone heard the voice of the Shepherd, you would say "You can't prove it".

I've gone around that circle too many times.

Future becomes present and then past... but in the early 1900's no one believed that Israel would be a country again, but here it is.

The formation of Israel doesn't meet any reasonable definition of prophecy. People who had full knowledge of the Bible were inspired by it to do something. That isn't fulfilled prophecy; that's just carrying out a plan.

cop-out IMO.

There are absolutely NO, NONE, NOBODY, whose people have been dispersed throughout the world to come back again and start their country.

The only way for someone to say that is isn't valid is to simply be in the position of "I just don't want to agree that it is valid".

 

[viole]

do you even understand the meaning of hell. There are actually two "hells" in the Bible. The first hell simply means the grave where everyone goes at death. The second hell is the total destruction of those people who will not accept God's rules.Everyone will have a chance to understand the rules and follow them or not.Those who choose not to follow the rules will be burned up, not sit in firey torment for eternity.

A proposal you cannot refute. Especially because I am a bit worried about the burned up part. It would be inconvenient to die peaceful on your bed, and then burned up at second death time. Burning alive is not so cool, apparently.

But I am intrigued. What happens if I accept the rules, but then decide to break them a few billions years later? You know, just to rock the boat a bit.

Ciao

- viole

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

You will have a new view of things and no one will want to "rock the boat" because everyone will see the benefits of living in peace and following God's way. Of course it does not make sense to someone who is only interested in doing things his way but in God's kingdom things will be different.

 

[Muffled]

Then apparently you didn't do what you seem to think you did. Pretending that anyone who rejects your claims must be irrational is absurd.

I believe I don't pretend. I know the rules of logic and nyah nyah nayh is not logic.

 

[Cephus]

I believe I don't pretend. I know the rules of logic and nyah nyah nayh is not logic.

You can believe what you want, but nobody cares what you believe, they care what you can prove and support objectively.

 

[Kenny]

I know the rules of logic and nyah nyah nayh is not logic.

I tried to get that across but I had no success on my side.

You can believe what you want, but nobody cares what you believe, they care what you can prove and support objectively.

1) Some people do care
2) Objective support is not something you have recognized in my dealings... it's been more like "If I don't agree with you, it is not objective." Not logical, of course.

 

[Muffled]

You can believe what you want, but nobody cares what you believe, they care what you can prove and support objectively.

I believe I would be most happy if someone actually did that but it appears that some people's idea of objective reasoning is that it agrees with their view.

I also believe that personal experience can be viewed just as objectively as any other evidence.

 

[Cephus]

I also believe that personal experience can be viewed just as objectively as any other evidence.

Can be, but rarely is. In fact, we know that psychologically, personal experience is one of the least reliable means of information that we have. People interpret experiences and interpolate meaning for those experiences. They will tell you all kinds of things about their experiences that they cannot possibly know, based on what they want to have happened, not what actually did. That's why personal, individual experience is a very poor indicator of what actually happened, it's why eyewitness testimony is often discredited in courts, because just because someone says they saw a thing, they will often report something that is incredibly embellished and not actually true at all.

 

[Thumper]

I believe I would be most happy if someone actually did that but it appears that some people's idea of objective reasoning is that it agrees with their view.

I also believe that personal experience can be viewed just as objectively as any other evidence.

"Are there things in the Universe that we cannot know in the usual way of observing and measuring, but that we can know in some other way -- intuition, revelation, mad insight?

"If so, how can you know that what you know in these non-knowing ways is really so. Anything you know without knowing, others can know only through your flat statement without any proof other than 'I know!'

"All this leads to such madness that I, for one, am content with the knowable. That is enough to know." ~ Isaac Asimov

 

[Muffled]

Can be, but rarely is. In fact, we know that psychologically, personal experience is one of the least reliable means of information that we have. People interpret experiences and interpolate meaning for those experiences. They will tell you all kinds of things about their experiences that they cannot possibly know, based on what they want to have happened, not what actually did. That's why personal, individual experience is a very poor indicator of what actually happened, it's why eyewitness testimony is often discredited in courts, because just because someone says they saw a thing, they will often report something that is incredibly embellished and not actually true at all.

I believe you should find me to be the exception. However I doubt your objectivity and if I remember correctly you have already demonstrated that in the thread "Experiencing God."

 

[Cephus]

I believe you should find me to be the exception. However I doubt your objectivity and if I remember correctly you have already demonstrated that in the thread "Experiencing God."

Please explain how you objectively demonstrated that this "God" you experienced actually exists in the real world. We both know you can't.

 

[Kenny]

Please explain how you objectively demonstrated that this "God" you experienced actually exists in the real world. We both know you can't.

I think this is quite subjective. Even scientists will have different views on the same facts that are available.

Your "We both know you can't" can simply be translated as "As one who views the same facts and information, my position is that I have the view that the God you experienced is not God".

But your position is still an opinion.