God: Trinity or Unity?

[101G]

I won’t have been the first to say to you but what you wrote is of no positive sense.

If God gave something to Jesus then the follow is obvious:

1. Jesus cannot be God - the giver cannot be the receiver of that which the giver gives!
2. God had something that Jesus did not have
3. The dispatcher is giving a testament about the himself to the person who is the deliverer

Jesus, during his lifetime prior to his anointment, had no power to do what the Father was to SEND HIM to do. He might have tried bug that would have been to do something he had big been equipped to do... and his mother, Mary, did try his patience in that regard till he even called her, ‘WOMAN...!’.

What you said was convoluted and at times I think even you could see that what you were trying to say was pure hotchpotch. I don’t understand how you just didn’t remove it and try a different tack!

• The Father gives to the Son...
• The Son obeys the Father...
• Because he is the righteous Son, he is GIFTED the power of the Father... to do mighty works ‘IN THE NAME OF THE FATHER’.
• Mankind has lost its TRUE knowledge of the LORD (YHWH) GOD and Jesus is given the testament about the Father (God) to give to mankind. This is the first part of the mission that Jesus is given.
• The book of Revelation teaches the testament concerning what is, and is about, to take place but is shrouded in mystery so it can only be interpreted at the appropriate future time and by appointed members (all other interpretations will miss the Mark!)
• But nonetheless, the overall ‘shape’ of the mystery is plain to see. We need only remember, or take into account, that the mystery is SPIRITUAL and should refrain from attempts

First thanks for the reply, second, this Revelation is "signified" This is the problem with human thinking, you think someone gave someone els something, physically, or someone is physically setting on a physical throne... oh my. no, all of this is Spiritual, and is "signified" for our best understanding. that's another topic in itself.

but to the business at hand,
John is giving us clear vetting process as to who the one person that sent this letter to the seven churches, via John himself. Remember this is a revelation of …. Jesus the Christ.

This one person hold all these identifying Appellation, or Epithet, which are mention in the above post of mine. this changes the whole dynamic of the book as we once believed, and the way we should read and understand this book. If the Lord Jesus holds all these identifying Appellation, or Epithet then one will have to consider what they believe. but leaving that alone, Lets follow the Appellation, and the Epithet and see if this is the one same person.

#1. him, “which is, and which was, and which is to come". is this the Lord Jesus?.

Evidence #1. Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty”. So the “which is, and which was, and which is to come” is A. the Almighty, B. the Alpha and the Omega, and C. the Lord. THERE IS ONLY "ONE" ALMIGHTY.

Evidence #2. Revelation 4:8 "And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which is, and which was, and which is to come”. Again the which is, and which was, and which is to come is the Lord God Almighty.
one more, Revelation 11:17 "Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned."
now Soapy, in Revelation verse #1, "Who sent his angel to John with the revelation? well Revelation 22:6 the angel who was sent tells us, "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done."
THE "Lord GOD of the Holy Prophet? rememner the "which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty", IS the "Lord God"... right, THE ALMIGHTY, well guess who is the Lord God Almighty who sent his angel? answer, same chapter, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." BINGO, well the Lord God of the holy prophets, who is the "ALMIGHTY" is JESUS... read Revelation 22:16 again.

so the "which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty", is JESUS


#2. him, the “Seven Spirits”. is this the Lord Jesus also? lets see.

Evidence #1. Revelation 3:1 "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead”. We know that this is the Lord Jesus who is addressing the church in Sardis, and he, the “Lord” Jesus said that he has the “Seven Spirits”. which siginified shows that he is the "Spirit, the Holy Spirit", let the bible tell us, you know that it is the Lord Jesus addressing each of the seven churches ... right, now notice how each church letter ends, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches". wait a minute, was it not the Lord Jesus addressing the seven, seven, seven, Churches, yes, the seven churches has the seven Spirit, who is JESUS

the one who have the seven Spirits is the Same one who is the First and the Last,
Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death". the omly one who was dead and live evermore is JESUS.

and this one who is the First and the Last is the SEVEN Spirits, Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth”. “which are the seven Spirits of God ”. so it is the Lord JESUS?. for he stood/resurrected. BINGO,

So the the one who have the seven Spirit is the First and the Last who is the Lord God Almighty. Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last”. who is the “First & Last?”, the Lord God Almighty, the Seven Spirit, and the which is, and which was, and which is to come . BINGO, that confirm who is the PERSON WHOM YOU CALL "GOD" in verse #1, it's the Lord God Almighty ...... is JESUS. ONE PERSON.

And lastly, “the true witness”, that’s a no brainier, a give me. The Lord Jesus.

The only person who is the central theme of this book is the Lord Jesus, who is the Spirit, who is God, for the scriptures are clear, GOD is a Spirit (John 4:24a).

and the Lord Jesus is that "Spirit", supportive scripture, 2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." and JESUS is Lord, meaning "GOD". so when Revelation 1:1 say God "Gave?", this is the MIND of God, who is Christ, being revealed. that's all. not something being passed to someone else. no, just as in chapter 5, when the Lamb, (JESUS, in Glorification), comes and take the Book out of his own RIGHT HAND, from him, (JESUS), who sits, is same method of Revelation by signification as in chapter 1, verse 1, but here it is the act of God will, that is being revealed. in chapter 1, it is his "Divine" revealation of his "mind". of things to come.

understand, one cannot understand God with our NATURAL "MINDS", no, listen,
1 Corinthians 2:10 "But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God." (YOU MIGHT WANT TO READ THAT AGAIN).
1 Corinthians 2:11 "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."
1 Corinthians 2:12 "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God."
1 Corinthians 2:13 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."
1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (YOU MIGHT NEED TO READ THIS AGAIN).
1 Corinthians 2:15 "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man."
1 Corinthians 2:16 "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

and that "MIND" is being REVEALED in the book of Revelation.

see Soapy, God, the Lord Jesus MIND and WILL are being revealed right in front of US. and the one who is doing the revealing is the ONE TRUE, and LIVING GOD ... the Lord JESUS who is God. the Only one person in Revelation 1:1 who gave John this revelation.

PICJAG,
101G.

PS, the scene in chapter 5, is the "WILL" of God being revealed. by taking the book out of his own right hand. the Lord JESUS as God the Father only knows his return date as Son..... boy this is too Good.

 

[Soapy]

First thanks for the reply, second, this Revelation is "signified" This is the problem with human thinking, you think someone gave someone els something, physically, or someone is physically setting on a physical throne... oh my. no, all of this is Spiritual, and is "signified" for our best understanding. that's another topic in itself.

but to the business at hand,
John is giving us clear vetting process as to who the one person that sent this letter to the seven churches, via John himself. Remember this is a revelation of …. Jesus the Christ.

This one person hold all these identifying Appellation, or Epithet, which are mention in the above post of mine. this changes the whole dynamic of the book as we once believed, and the way we should read and understand this book. If the Lord Jesus holds all these identifying Appellation, or Epithet then one will have to consider what they believe. but leaving that alone, Lets follow the Appellation, and the Epithet and see if this is the one same person.

#1. him, “which is, and which was, and which is to come". is this the Lord Jesus?.

Evidence #1. Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty”. So the “which is, and which was, and which is to come” is A. the Almighty, B. the Alpha and the Omega, and C. the Lord. THERE IS ONLY "ONE" ALMIGHTY.

Evidence #2. Revelation 4:8 "And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which is, and which was, and which is to come”. Again the which is, and which was, and which is to come is the Lord God Almighty.
one more, Revelation 11:17 "Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned."
now Soapy, in Revelation verse #1, "Who sent his angel to John with the revelation? well Revelation 22:6 the angel who was sent tells us, "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done."
THE "Lord GOD of the Holy Prophet? rememner the "which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty", IS the "Lord God"... right, THE ALMIGHTY, well guess who is the Lord God Almighty who sent his angel? answer, same chapter, Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star." BINGO, well the Lord God of the holy prophets, who is the "ALMIGHTY" is JESUS... read Revelation 22:16 again.

so the "which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty", is JESUS


#2. him, the “Seven Spirits”. is this the Lord Jesus also? lets see.

Evidence #1. Revelation 3:1 "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead”. We know that this is the Lord Jesus who is addressing the church in Sardis, and he, the “Lord” Jesus said that he has the “Seven Spirits”. which siginified shows that he is the "Spirit, the Holy Spirit", let the bible tell us, you know that it is the Lord Jesus addressing each of the seven churches ... right, now notice how each church letter ends, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches". wait a minute, was it not the Lord Jesus addressing the seven, seven, seven, Churches, yes, the seven churches has the seven Spirit, who is JESUS

the one who have the seven Spirits is the Same one who is the First and the Last,
Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death". the omly one who was dead and live evermore is JESUS.

and this one who is the First and the Last is the SEVEN Spirits, Revelation 5:6 "And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth”. “which are the seven Spirits of God ”. so it is the Lord JESUS?. for he stood/resurrected. BINGO,

So the the one who have the seven Spirit is the First and the Last who is the Lord God Almighty. Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last”. who is the “First & Last?”, the Lord God Almighty, the Seven Spirit, and the which is, and which was, and which is to come . BINGO, that confirm who is the PERSON WHOM YOU CALL "GOD" in verse #1, it's the Lord God Almighty ...... is JESUS. ONE PERSON.

And lastly, “the true witness”, that’s a no brainier, a give me. The Lord Jesus.

The only person who is the central theme of this book is the Lord Jesus, who is the Spirit, who is God, for the scriptures are clear, GOD is a Spirit (John 4:24a).

and the Lord Jesus is that "Spirit", supportive scripture, 2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty." and JESUS is Lord, meaning "GOD". so when Revelation 1:1 say God "Gave?", this is the MIND of God, who is Christ, being revealed. that's all. not something being passed to someone else. no, just as in chapter 5, when the Lamb, (JESUS, in Glorification), comes and take the Book out of his own RIGHT HAND, from him, (JESUS), who sits, is same method of Revelation by signification as in chapter 1, verse 1, but here it is the act of God will, that is being revealed. in chapter 1, it is his "Divine" revealation of his "mind". of things to come.

understand, one cannot understand God with our NATURAL "MINDS", no, listen,
1 Corinthians 2:10 "But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God." (YOU MIGHT WANT TO READ THAT AGAIN).
1 Corinthians 2:11 "For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."
1 Corinthians 2:12 "Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God."
1 Corinthians 2:13 "Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."
1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (YOU MIGHT NEED TO READ THIS AGAIN).
1 Corinthians 2:15 "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man."
1 Corinthians 2:16 "For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

and that "MIND" is being REVEALED in the book of Revelation.

see Soapy, God, the Lord Jesus MIND and WILL are being revealed right in front of US. and the one who is doing the revealing is the ONE TRUE, and LIVING GOD ... the Lord JESUS who is God. the Only one person in Revelation 1:1 who gave John this revelation.

PICJAG,
101G.

PS, the scene in chapter 5, is the "WILL" of God being revealed. by taking the book out of his own right hand. the Lord JESUS as God the Father only knows his return date as Son..... boy this is too Good.

Where do you learn your nonsense from?

I notice you stopped quoting where JESUS says that he WAS DEAD but is NOW ALIVE FOREVERMORE.

Is it because “God, who cannot lie” said of himself, “I am he who was, is, and is to come” and that cannot be also true that he was DEAD at some point?

Your GOD was DEAD at some point in time YET was ALWAYS existing.... ETERNALLY ALIVE!

But wait, don’t we agree that Jesus WAS DEAD at one point in his life... BUT that GOD RAISED HIM UP again and MADE HIM IMMORTAL (eternally living)?

So GOD and Jesus are two separate persons.
One was eternal. The other BECAME Eternal.

And remember this:

• “The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,”

I notice you don’t refer to the underlined/bolded part of Revelation 1:1 where it clearly states that the revelation from (or of or about) Jesus WAS GIVEN TO HIM BY GOD.

Care to comment on your reasons?

 

[101G]

Where do you learn your nonsense from?

ok if it's nonesense, then answer me this, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

is the "First" and the "Last" is this "TWO" separate and distinct persons? yes or no.

PICJAG,
101G.

 

[Soapy]

ok if it's nonesense, then answer me this, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

is the "First" and the "Last" is this "TWO" separate and distinct persons? yes or no.

PICJAG,
101G.

I have said it before, maybe not in thus thread, but:

• “First and Last”

just means:

• “ONLY”

Don’t believe me? Try it in a sentence!

• “I am the ONLY GOD”
  • ‘I am your first and last God’

• “I am the first child of my parents - and - I am the last child of my parents’
  • “I am the ONLY child of my parents”

Jesus Christ is UNIQUE... and you know that ‘unique’ means, ‘One of a kind’...

‘First and Last’ also means, ‘One of a kind’, ‘Unique’.

YHWH is UNIQUE in terms of the deities of the beliefs of man. He is the ONLY TRUE GOD.

Jesus says:

• “After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed: "Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. (John 17:1)
  • Here, Jesus is praying to YHWH. He asks YHWH to glorify him because he, Jesus, has completed the task of delivering the TESTIMONY OF THE FATHER - and, in being glorified, Jesus reciprocates the glory back to the Father.
• “For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.
  • YHWH, the Father, has GRANTED the son, Jesus, ‘...authority over all people...’. Here is the fulfilment of the prophecy wherein YHWH says he will set him above his fellow man:
  • “You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore YHWH, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy."
• “Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.” (John 17:3)
  • Jesus is still praying to his Father and here speaks an eternal truth, addressing HIS YHWH as ‘’the only true God’, saying that ‘Eternal life depends on the belief in Him, YHWH, and in Jesus Christ, himself, as the one SENT BY YAHWEH. A true testimony is believed on from BOTH the sender AND the sent.

An emissary SENT by a king would be glorified by the King who sent the emissary if the emissary fulfilled the purpose for which he was sent. The emissary glorifies the king who sent him on the special assignment... it’s a reciprocal glorification.

In fulfilling the purpose of the sending, the emissary is REWARDED by the king, elevating the emissary above all others in the category of the emissary. Did YAHWEH not SEND many other emissaries: prophets and holy men in times past? But Jesus Christ is a greater emissary than all his fellow emissaries.

The emissary NEVER is the King, himself... nor does the emissary claim to be the king who sent him.

 

[101G]

Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

I have said it before, maybe not in thus thread, but:

• “First and Last”

just means:

• “ONLY”

Don’t believe me? Try it in a sentence!

• “I am the ONLY GOD”
  • ‘I am your first and last God’

• “I am the first child of my parents - and - I am the last child of my parents’
  • “I am the ONLY child of my parents”

Jesus Christ is UNIQUE... and you know that ‘unique’ means, ‘One of a kind’...

‘First and Last’ also means, ‘One of a kind’, ‘Unique’.

but it's the same "one" child ... right. now looking at what you said above, ‘I am your first and last God’ now this, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

see that and "WITH" the Last, is this one person who is God or is this TWO persons of God.... yes or no?, JUST ANSWER the question, no other comment is needed.

PICJAG,
101G.

 

[Soapy]

Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

but it's the same "one" child ... right. now looking at what you said above, ‘I am your first and last God’ now this, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he."

see that and "WITH" the Last, is this one person who is God or is this TWO persons of God.... yes or no?, JUST ANSWER the question, no other comment is needed.

PICJAG,
101G.

God is ONE PERSON.

With the first and with the last, he alone is God.

I think you are torturing the translation because at another time you say that Jesus is:

• ‘The first and the last’

and that is supposed to say that Jesus is GOD:

• ‘The first and WITH the last’

You are thrashing at discovering your own error.

 

[Soapy]

God is ONE PERSON.

With the first and with the last, he alone is God.

I think you are torturing the translation because at another time you say that Jesus is:

• ‘The first and the last’

and that is supposed to say that Jesus is GOD:

• ‘The first and WITH the last’

You are thrashing at discovering your own error.

What does, ‘the First and with the last’ mean to you?

 

[shunyadragon]

What does, ‘the First and with the last’ mean to you?

The eternal nature of God and the relationship between Creation and humanity through the manifestations of God.

 

[Soapy]

The eternal nature of God and the relationship between Creation and humanity through the manifestations of God.

Out of interest, the overused and misunderstood term, ‘Manifestation of God’, what exactly do you mean by that?

What of God is manifested…?

1. A person of three persons trinity spirit idol god?
2. Or the nature of the Father: the Only True God?

Answer:

1. One of the persons of the trinity god - how, since they are a single cohesive ONE (trinity says)!
2. The nature of God into a human Being?
   1. ‘The things I do are because the Father has anointed me (‘set me apart’) with HIS HOLY SPIRIT And With POWER’
   2. Jesus was granted the power - but notice after this time (at the Baptism) that he did not have AUTHORITY to use it… It was only AFTER he had completed the task GOD gave him that he said: ‘All power AND AUTHORITY (to use it) has been granted to me…!’ Up until that point he always ‘prayed the Father’ before using the gift of the Holy Spirited powers.

 

[shunyadragon]

Out of interest, the overused and misunderstood term, ‘Manifestation of God’, what exactly do you mean by that?

What of God is manifested…?

1. A person of three persons trinity spirit idol god?
2. Or the nature of the Father: the Only True God?

Answer:

1. One of the persons of the trinity god - how, since they are a single cohesive ONE (trinity says)!
2. The nature of God into a human Being?
   1. ‘The things I do are because the Father has anointed me (‘set me apart’) with HIS HOLY SPIRIT And With POWER’
   2. Jesus was granted the power - but notice after this time (at the Baptism) that he did not have AUTHORITY to use it… It was only AFTER he had completed the task GOD gave him that he said: ‘All power AND AUTHORITY (to use it) has been granted to me…!’ Up until that point he always ‘prayed the Father’ before using the gift of the Holy Spirited powers.

The references you provide a strictly from the Christian perspective. I go for a more universal perspective of over the millennia of God's relationship with humanity universally The manifestations of God the chosen messiahs and the relationship between Creation humanity through the manifestations of God throughout the entire history of the hundreds of thousands of years.

I go with the OT documented belief God is One and only ONE, and God' relationship isuniversal beyond the scope of any one religion or division in history.

 

[Soapy]

The references you provide a strictly from the Christian perspective. I go for a more universal perspective of over the millennia of God's relationship with humanity universally The manifestations of God the chosen messiahs and the relationship between Creation humanity through the manifestations of God throughout the entire history of the hundreds of thousands of years.

I go with the OT documented belief God is One and only ONE, and God' relationship isuniversal beyond the scope of any one religion or division in history.

Ok, that’s fine… at least you didn’t DENY the truth of the true Christian perspective.

Thanks.

 

[shunyadragon]

Ok, that’s fine… at least you didn’t DENY the truth of the true Christian perspective.

Thanks.

The negative of disagreement is not valid nor meaningful.

The bottom line is 'truth' is beyond the grasp ALL fallible humans regardless of belief, I question the claim of 'truth'

 

[Soapy]

The negative of disagreement is not valid nor meaningful.

The bottom line is 'truth' is beyond the grasp ALL fallible humans regardless of belief, I question the claim of 'truth'

The usual response, I’m saying, is to post a load of nonsense denying the claims made in the scriptures … you didn’t do that and do I applauded you.

Jesus said of those who are lukewarm (better to be totally against me or totally with me but to be neither is like tepid water)

• “I spit you out”

 

[Joshua Pryce]

I believe there is 3 of them. But the methodology behind their law and order is so perfect and celebrated that its like there is only 1. There is no doubt that there are 3 separate beings. The theory of God existing as 1 and than another is false. So there is 3 different beings Who plays different roles in society and spiritually and in personal ways.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

If the house next to you was occupied by a father and his son, you would say there were two people living there, but ONE FAMILY. God is One God but a father and a son. What is the difference? One family of two people, one God of two members.

 

[Soapy]

If the house next to you was occupied by a father and his son, you would say there were two people living there, but ONE FAMILY. God is One God but a father and a son. What is the difference? One family of two people, one God of two members.

But that’s not what is true. That’s the problem with your theoretical order.

So let me put another to you: If a man and a friend were living next door, would they still be a family?

Anyway, God is spirit, Jesus is man. The term ‘Son’ in ‘Son of God’ just means that the one called ‘Son’ is doing all that the other, called ‘Father’, is showing him:

• ‘I said only that God is my Father: IF I AM NOT DOING THE WORKS OF MY FATHER THEN DO NOT BELIEVE ME!’
• ‘If God were YOUR FATHER then you, too, would do his works! But you are Sons of Satan Satan, yourFather, since you do His works - He was a liar from the beginning!

When Jesus pleased God, God was so pleased He said:

• ‘This is my son in whom I am well pleased’

and:

• ‘You are my son; This day I have become your Father!’

What do those words mean to you? Whether or not, what they do mean is that God spoke in an ADOPTION STATEMENT that Jesus had BECOME HIS SON as He had BECOME JESUS’ FATHER.

Clearly, Jesus was not a PROCREATION of God but rather A SON IN SPIRIT… A Spiritual adoption just as if is said of other in future times:

• ‘[God] predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ’ (Eph 1:5)

He who desires to be a Son of God must do the works of God.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

But that’s not what is true. That’s the problem with your theoretical order.

So let me put another to you: If a man and a friend were living next door, would they still be a family?

Anyway, God is spirit, Jesus is man. The term ‘Son’ in ‘Son of God’ just means that the one called ‘Son’ is doing all that the other, called ‘Father’, is showing him:

• ‘I said only that God is my Father: IF I AM NOT DOING THE WORKS OF MY FATHER THEN DO NOT BELIEVE ME!’
• ‘If God were YOUR FATHER then you, too, would do his works! But you are Sons of Satan Satan, yourFather, since you do His works - He was a liar from the beginning!

When Jesus pleased God, God was so pleased He said:

• ‘This is my son in whom I am well pleased’

and:

• ‘You are my son; This day I have become your Father!’

What do those words mean to you? Whether or not, what they do mean is that God spoke in an ADOPTION STATEMENT that Jesus had BECOME HIS SON as He had BECOME JESUS’ FATHER.

Clearly, Jesus was not a PROCREATION of God but rather A SON IN SPIRIT… A Spiritual adoption just as if is said of other in future times:

• ‘[God] predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ’ (Eph 1:5)

He who desires to be a Son of God must do the works of God.

A son is born when a woman gets pregnant has has a baby boy. God caused a woman names Mary to get pregnant and have a baby boy. Jesus is God's son If two men are living next door and one is doing the will of the other, that does not make one the son of the other.

 

[shunyadragon]

But that’s not what is true. That’s the problem with your theoretical order.

So let me put another to you: If a man and a friend were living next door, would they still be a family?

Anyway, God is spirit, Jesus is man. The term ‘Son’ in ‘Son of God’ just means that the one called ‘Son’ is doing all that the other, called ‘Father’, is showing him:

• ‘I said only that God is my Father: IF I AM NOT DOING THE WORKS OF MY FATHER THEN DO NOT BELIEVE ME!’
• ‘If God were YOUR FATHER then you, too, would do his works! But you are Sons of Satan Satan, yourFather, since you do His works - He was a liar from the beginning!

When Jesus pleased God, God was so pleased He said:

• ‘This is my son in whom I am well pleased’

and:

• ‘You are my son; This day I have become your Father!’

What do those words mean to you? Whether or not, what they do mean is that God spoke in an ADOPTION STATEMENT that Jesus had BECOME HIS SON as He had BECOME JESUS’ FATHER.

Clearly, Jesus was not a PROCREATION of God but rather A SON IN SPIRIT… A Spiritual adoption just as if is said of other in future times:

• ‘[God] predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ’ (Eph 1:5)

He who desires to be a Son of God must do the works of God.

Like many attempts to explain the Trinity and the Christian view of God or God(s) it is extremely anthropomorphic and speculative as to which is unknown concerning the ultimate nature of God beyond the fallible human perspective. Like the view of the 'Source' some call God(s) of all the religions it reflects the human views of God of the culture and the time the scripture is written.

 

[Soapy]

Like many attempts to explain the Trinity and the Christian view of God or God(s) it is extremely anthropomorphic and speculative as to which is unknown concerning the ultimate nature of God beyond the fallible human perspective. Like the view of the 'Source' some call God(s) of all the religions it reflects the human views of God of the culture and the time the scripture is written.

I cannot say I understood every part of what you wrote here but to me it’s absolutely a simple thing.

A God is what every religious nation calls its spiritual ruling deity. The rule maker, the spirit governor of the physical world, the all powerful monarchy in an invisible environment outside and above human minds… the creator of all things in the world. All created things are necessarily less than their creator.

In all non-Jewish religious beliefs the nations assigned multiple heirachial deities as their Gods. This might have come about by observations in the physical world of how the animals organised themselves - a head deity, support deities, and soldier deities.

In some beliefs, these deities were stable in their arrangement but in others there were changes of leadership - just as with animal societies.

However, no matter what the structure, each deity was supposed to be responsible for one or more aspect of governorship in the physical world.

As a result, those in that particular belief system would appeal to the specific deity, responsible for a particular aspect, for benefit situation: E.g. for a good harvest; for rain; for personal welfare; victory in warfare; pregnancy and childbirth, etc.

If the things prayed for did not occur the person may decide that they had displeased the deity and may think to offer a sacrifice as a penance. Of course, they may decide to worship the deity before by offering a sacrifice - the more personal the better - even their daughters, food, property…

But mankind is treacherous to itself. Over time, man chose to attempt to mimic their deities in the physical world. Man created heirachial governments and some nations even claimed that such heads of human governments were offsprings of the deities - children of the Gods.

And such a ‘Son of a God’ should also be a ‘GOD’, themself: a Deified Son of God…!

There’s a lot more but I want to move onto the Jews since that is the real purpose of the debate.

Now, in the Israelite belief, it was deemed that there was no hierarchy of deities, there was only one deity… one deity with supporting non-deity messengers (‘Angelos’ - Angels) who carried out the bidding of that one ruling deity - that one God.

The Bible narrative states that this deity singled out a man from among the many nations that the world had divided itself into - the man Abram…

The ruling deity (I’ll just say ‘God’ now), removed Abram from his family’s belief system in order to establish the new belief system that would become what we know now as Christianity (a made up name meaning ‘Follower of Christ’)

God tested Abram and found him ‘almost’ wholly compliant with his desires and blessed him and gave him a new name, ‘Abraham’. And as Abraham continued to do the works of this God, God further blessed him saying that from him (Abraham) would come a saviour who would lead the world back to a quiescent level of worship of Him (God) seeing that all the other nations were worshipping purely pointless nonexistent idolatrous deities.

That’s what we, as Christians or Jews, are to believe.

But that’s not what we actually see, today.

Apparently, someone decided that there should be a single ‘GOD’ who is THREE deities.

And these three deities are all equal in every way.

Except that they are RANKED in heirachial order …!!

And though they are ONE GOD in one essence, one of … ‘them’ (It?)… is a man…

And the lowest ranked one has a non-executive non-formal - non-speaking role …

And the third is a RULING .. one.. who dictates the workings of the other two…

Yet all three are COMPLETELY EQUAL… and COMPLETELY IMMUTABLE: ‘I am the LORD; I changeth not’.

But, repeating myself, ONE of ‘them’ changed to become a man…, a deified ‘Son of God’ … who could be killed by man.. A God killed by his own creation!

This is the belief of a group called Trinitarians. Trinitarians who class themselves under the same meta-group called ‘Christians’.

But all who believe in the saviour are called ‘Christians’… so how to differentiate one Christian from another? The wheat from the Tares?

Well, to me, it’s quite simple.

 

[shunyadragon]

I cannot say I understood every part of what you wrote here but to me it’s absolutely a simple thing.

A God is what every religious nation calls its spiritual ruling deity. The rule maker, the spirit governor of the physical world, the all powerful monarchy in an invisible environment outside and above human minds… the creator of all things in the world. All created things are necessarily less than their creator.

In all non-Jewish religious beliefs the nations assigned multiple heirachial deities as their Gods. This might have come about by observations in the physical world of how the animals organised themselves - a head deity, support deities, and soldier deities.

In some beliefs, these deities were stable in their arrangement but in others there were changes of leadership - just as with animal societies.

However, no matter what the structure, each deity was supposed to be responsible for one or more aspect of governorship in the physical world.

As a result, those in that particular belief system would appeal to the specific deity, responsible for a particular aspect, for benefit situation: E.g. for a good harvest; for rain; for personal welfare; victory in warfare; pregnancy and childbirth, etc.

If the things prayed for did not occur the person may decide that they had displeased the deity and may think to offer a sacrifice as a penance. Of course, they may decide to worship the deity before by offering a sacrifice - the more personal the better - even their daughters, food, property…

But mankind is treacherous to itself. Over time, man chose to attempt to mimic their deities in the physical world. Man created heirachial governments and some nations even claimed that such heads of human governments were offsprings of the deities - children of the Gods.

And such a ‘Son of a God’ should also be a ‘GOD’, themself: a Deified Son of God…!

There’s a lot more but I want to move onto the Jews since that is the real purpose of the debate.

Now, in the Israelite belief, it was deemed that there was no hierarchy of deities, there was only one deity… one deity with supporting non-deity messengers (‘Angelos’ - Angels) who carried out the bidding of that one ruling deity - that one God.

The Bible narrative states that this deity singled out a man from among the many nations that the world had divided itself into - the man Abram…

The ruling deity (I’ll just say ‘God’ now), removed Abram from his family’s belief system in order to establish the new belief system that would become what we know now as Christianity (a made up name meaning ‘Follower of Christ’)

God tested Abram and found him ‘almost’ wholly compliant with his desires and blessed him and gave him a new name, ‘Abraham’. And as Abraham continued to do the works of this God, God further blessed him saying that from him (Abraham) would come a saviour who would lead the world back to a quiescent level of worship of Him (God) seeing that all the other nations were worshipping purely pointless nonexistent idolatrous deities.

That’s what we, as Christians or Jews, are to believe.

But that’s not what we actually see, today.

Apparently, someone decided that there should be a single ‘GOD’ who is THREE deities.

And these three deities are all equal in every way.

Except that they are RANKED in heirachial order …!!

And though they are ONE GOD in one essence, one of … ‘them’ (It?)… is a man…

And the lowest ranked one has a non-executive non-formal - non-speaking role …

And the third is a RULING .. one.. who dictates the workings of the other two…

Yet all three are COMPLETELY EQUAL… and COMPLETELY IMMUTABLE: ‘I am the LORD; I changeth not’.

But, repeating myself, ONE of ‘them’ changed to become a man…, a deified ‘Son of God’ … who could be killed by man.. A God killed by his own creation!

This is the belief of a group called Trinitarians. Trinitarians who class themselves under the same meta-group called ‘Christians’.

But all who believe in the saviour are called ‘Christians’… so how to differentiate one Christian from another? The wheat from the Tares?

Well, to me, it’s quite simple.

What you described above is a very long attempt to describe something that may be simple but not based on your post. Too much to respond to that is not simple.

Inaccuracies abound. First the OT does describe a hierarchy of Gods, and yes sacrifice is the rule and at least one case of the sacrifice of a daughter.

Both the OT and the NT are loaded with anthropomorphic references of Polytheism that the belief in Tritheism or the Trinity evolved from.

Try again and make it simple without the huge volume piled on.

Your still describing anthropomorphic God or Gods from the perspective of an ancient culture as all the diverse conflicting religions in history all over the world for thousands of years