God's double decree of predestination !

[anthony55]

Rom 9:11-23

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

I believe God's word teaches :


God's double decree of Predestination, that from all eternity, not based upon anything of His creatures, neither good nor evil, God did detemine that some of His creatures should have everlasting life, and that some should have everlasting damnation on account of their sins.

Prov 16:4

4The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

God made the wicked for the day of evil, that is for their day of destruction to be meted out to each one of them in the day of His wrath and Last Judgment.

Job 21:30

That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

 

[Mister Emu]

Any commentary or are you just throwing Bible verses at us?

 

[anthony55]

I did give some commentary and backed it up with scripture. I use scripture for a commentary as well when its meet to do so. Everything I will present will be biblical based, since this is a religious forum, you should expect that. Now , do you have anything to say regarding what I have presented instead of avoiding it with questions that dont make sense ? Or are you competent to deal with someone who uses scripture ?

 

[ninerbuff]

If I was to be "saved" by god, apparently there's nothing I can do to change it, so why bother? I can be as bad as I want and if this god wants to save me, then I don't have a choice.
With all the of fundies who look down on others as "lower" since they disobey the god they worship, I'd rather live with the "damned" since they seem much more fun!:yes:

 

[Storm]

I did give some commentary and backed it up with scripture. I use scripture for a commentary as well when its meet to do so. Everything I will present will be biblical based, since this is a religious forum, you should expect that. Now , do you have anything to say regarding what I have presented instead of avoiding it with questions that dont make sense ? Or are you competent to deal with someone who uses scripture ?

1) It's a religious forum, yes. Not a Christian forum.
2) Emu's a good deal more competent than you, from what I've seen.
3) This level of arrogance will only get you ignored, for the most part. Some people might decide to have some fun at your expense, though.

 

[michel]

With all the of fundies who look down on others as "lower" since they disobey the god they worship, I'd rather live with the "damned" since they seem much more fun!:yes:

From the way they (the fundies)are described on this forum , I can quite understand your rection. You might just consider that for every "bad" teenager who attracts a lot of negative attention, there are probably hundreds who are good; you just don't hear about the "good" ones. Just as with the news, only "wrong things" are newsworthy - there are the occasional "good news" - but that doesn't sell as well as a bit of juicy "nastiness".

 

[Reptillian]

If salvation is predestined, then why does God need to wait until Judgement Day separate the weeds from the wheat as Jesus' parable in Matthew 13 describes. If he knows, why bother waiting to see which seeds become wheat and which become weeds? Especially if both look the same in the early stages of development. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Tares

 

[ninerbuff]

From the way they (the fundies)are described on this forum , I can quite understand your rection. You might just consider that for every "bad" teenager who attracts a lot of negative attention, there are probably hundreds who are good; you just don't hear about the "good" ones. Just as with the news, only "wrong things" are newsworthy - there are the occasional "good news" - but that doesn't sell as well as a bit of juicy "nastiness".

Nah, I don't buy that. Most of the "good" ones aren't fundies. Fundies despise homosexuality, pologamy, etc. I couldn't bear to "live eternally" with a bunch of yahoos that can't accept people just the way they are. I did say "accept" and not "tolerate".

 

[anthony55]

Jude writes of men who were of old, ordained to condemnation ! Jude 1:4

4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.

Of old here means from eternity !

As men are Chosen from the beginning to Salvation 2 Thess 2:13, so as early men were Chosen from the beginning for condemnation.

 

[Matthew78]

I did give some commentary and backed it up with scripture. I use scripture for a commentary as well when its meet to do so. Everything I will present will be biblical based, since this is a religious forum, you should expect that. Now , do you have anything to say regarding what I have presented instead of avoiding it with questions that dont make sense ? Or are you competent to deal with someone who uses scripture ?

You meant to type "Everything I present will be Bible-based, since this is a religious forum, you should expect that" right? I'm hoping you will take this as a cue to touch up on your grammar a bit. There may be quite a number of people avoiding you; especially if you are as arrogant as this post makes you look. But one sad conclusion I have come to is that Christians who have a pride problem often don't care that they're arrogant; it's all about winning an argument and gloating about how smart and how spiritual they are and how their posts prove it.

 

[Mister Emu]

I did give some commentary and backed it up with scripture.

I apologise, I missed it mixed in there.

God's double decree of Predestination

2 Peter 3:9? The Lord is... not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Predestination to damnation makes no sense in the Biblical context of a God who wants everyone to come unto Him, of a God who died for the world, of a God who rejoices at the return of His prodigal children.

I use scripture for a commentary as well when its meet to do so.

Scripture does not interpret itself, and so is not commentary in and of itself.

 

[McBell]

Some people might decide to have some fun at your expense, though.

*Raises Hand*

 

[Otherright]

Rom 9:11-23

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

I believe God's word teaches :


God's double decree of Predestination, that from all eternity, not based upon anything of His creatures, neither good nor evil, God did detemine that some of His creatures should have everlasting life, and that some should have everlasting damnation on account of their sins.

Prov 16:4

4The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

God made the wicked for the day of evil, that is for their day of destruction to be meted out to each one of them in the day of His wrath and Last Judgment.

Job 21:30

That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

So, it really doesn't matter what you believe, your fate is already predetermined?

 

[Otherright]

Also, I love how you use old biblical theology, mixed right in there with the new theology.

 

[Adonis65]

Rom 9:11-23

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

12It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger.

13As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.

14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.

15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

I believe God's word teaches :


God's double decree of Predestination, that from all eternity, not based upon anything of His creatures, neither good nor evil, God did detemine that some of His creatures should have everlasting life, and that some should have everlasting damnation on account of their sins.

Prov 16:4

4The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

God made the wicked for the day of evil, that is for their day of destruction to be meted out to each one of them in the day of His wrath and Last Judgment.

Job 21:30

That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.

The Bible does not support your view. We were created to choose for ourselves. Yes, God does know all things, but it is our choices that will determine our final destinations.

 

[anthony55]

Reprobation like election is unconditional, the unsaved are not condemned or rejected because of their sins, or because they were more sinful than those who are saved, but just as the saved are saved solely upon the purpose of God and nothing in them per Rom 9:11

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

So also the unsaved [ the reprobated] are rejected solely due to the purpose of God's good pleasure, and not because of anything they have done or not done.

However the reason for their future punishment is because of their sins, if they had not been sinners they would not be punished for their sins, yet it is God who concludes all under sin is it not ? Gal 3:22

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

That word concluded is the greek word sygkleiō and means:to shut up together, enclose

So get this, even though they are not reprobated or rejected because of what they have done or did not do, they are punished for what they have done, their iniquities.

Again God's rejection of them is not based upon or because of their sins[ Just as God's election of the saved was not because of any goodness in them] But Gods punishment of the reprobate is because of their sins ! I know this is a hard truth to accept by the natural mind of men.

Now consider, did not God leave the fallen angels in their sins 2 Pet 2:4

4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Now was that Unloving ? Was not God still a God of Love ? Was God unjust in this ?

Why should it be unjust for God to not show mercy to some of mankind and punish them for their sins ! Thats what He chose to do..

 

[ninerbuff]

Reprobation like election is unconditional, the unsaved are not condemned or rejected because of their sins, or because they were more sinful than those who are saved, but just as the saved are saved solely upon the purpose of God and nothing in them per Rom 9:11

11(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

So also the unsaved [ the reprobated] are rejected solely due to the purpose of God's good pleasure, and not because of anything they have done or not done.

However the reason for their future punishment is because of their sins, if they had not been sinners they would not be punished for their sins, yet it is God who concludes all under sin is it not ? Gal 3:22

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

That word concluded is the greek word sygkleiō and means:to shut up together, enclose

So get this, even though they are not reprobated or rejected because of what they have done or did not do, they are punished for what they have done, their iniquities.

Again God's rejection of them is not based upon or because of their sins[ Just as God's election of the saved was not because of any goodness in them] But Gods punishment of the reprobate is because of their sins ! I know this is a hard truth to accept by the natural mind of men.

Now consider, did not God leave the fallen angels in their sins 2 Pet 2:4

4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Now was that Unloving ? Was not God still a God of Love ? Was God unjust in this ?

Why should it be unjust for God to not show mercy to some of mankind and punish them for their sins ! Thats what He chose to do..

When I read this I think of "Reverend Flavel" from "Porky's 2"!:ignore:
"So sayeth the sheppard!".................."so sayeth the flock!"
:troll:

 

[Cordoba]

If salvation is predestined, then why does God need to wait until Judgement Day separate the weeds from the wheat as Jesus' parable in Matthew 13 describes. If he knows, why bother waiting to see which seeds become wheat and which become weeds? Especially if both look the same in the early stages of development. Parable of the Tares - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Good question

And the answer to my understanding is that you can't hold someone accountable for something they did not do

Each one of us must live this life, and by free will choose to believe in God and obey Him, or disbelieve.

After each person has taken their free choice, they would be judged in the Hereafter.

If they don't have a chance to make this choice, how would they be accountable?

 

[PolyHedral]

Good question

And the answer to my understanding is that you can't hold someone accountable for something they did not do

Each one of us must live this life, and by free will choose to believe in God and obey Him, or disbelieve.

After each person has taken their free choice, they would be judged in the Hereafter.

If they don't have a chance to make this choice, how would they be accountable?

A choice is still a choice, no matter how obvious or implicit it is. It is, for instance, a choice to breath at any given moment.

 

[sojourner]

I did give some commentary and backed it up with scripture.

Usually the process works best the other way 'round. Commentary expounds upon scripture.

I use scripture for a commentary as well when its meet to do so.

(This is double-talk for "proof-texting")
Eisegesis is not a good basis for theological conjecture.

Everything I will present will be biblical based, since this is a religious forum, you should expect that.

Why should we expect that? Or do you simply assume that 1) all religions revere the Bible and 2) all Christians buy into the fallacy of sola scriptura?

Or are you competent to deal with someone who uses scripture ?

In considering what you've written here, I doubt you'd be competent to deal with someone who uses drugs.

You've done nothing but create a theologically untenable "theory" based upon nothing but a misuse of texts.