i believe that since God has existed eternally, He has always had worshippers, believers and followers whether on this planet or another. So religion has existed eternally.
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Gods. Have far back do you think the concept of gods go back
- Thread starter We Never Know
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ppp
Well-Known Member
That is not a false statement. Is there an implication in there?
Tomef
Well-Known Member
If by gods you mean invisible spirits, probably to not long after the ability for abstract thought developed, which according to the Smithsonian may have been around 160 odd thousand years ago When Did the Human Mind Evolve to What It is Today?
It makes sense that once that ability developed, people would begin to wonder about their experiences and the world around them, and coming up with the ideas of spirits to explain life and motion (etc) was widespread across different groups of humans.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It's not hard to see how theism developed.
One walk in the woods day and night can offer the proper insight where the mind can think of gods and spirits.
In my experience it was in the Arkansas woodlands at night where there was bioluminescent moss on the trees.
Absolutely haunting.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
This makes no sense to me. "<>" means less than or greater than but not equal to. It makes no sense to say Religion is less than or greater than theism but not equal to.
It's shorthand for "does not equal."
Religion is not theism. Theism is not religion. Evidence of religiosity is not automatically evidence that theistic belief underlies the religiosity.
Which gods?
A meaningful answer requires that clarification.
A meaningful answer requires that clarification.
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We have witnessed the birth of national gods during our lifetimes: N Korea, Cambodia and various other countries have created some. History also records the founding of other longer lived dynasties. This suggests where national gods come from.
We have also seen resistance against gods which resistance takes multiple semantic forms, including in the formation of gods in opposition. There are modern constructs and other more ancient ones. There are gods and anti-gods. There are gods pitted against gods, and there are constructs to oppose all gods. Partisans accuse other partisans of crimes that may include unpatriotism or atheism, whichever accusation sticks better.
So we have pretty good ideas about where national gods come from as well as opponents of them.
What of family gods and tribal gods? We have a good idea about these, too. Families tend to venerate ancestors, and its a behavior which asserts itself in all cultures. Individuals also tend to feel still connected to dead relatives.
Its not final nor the whole picture, but these suggest some very likely origins.
Spice
StewardshipPeaceIntergityCommunityEquality
I imagine they have existed since the first humanoid conveyed a hope, or a wish that came true.
In James Michener's novel, _The Source_, IIRC, an early humanoid was fearful of rising waters and somehow, I don't recall, ended up building a mud "being" that became their "god." An excellent read, I highly recommend.
In James Michener's novel, _The Source_, IIRC, an early humanoid was fearful of rising waters and somehow, I don't recall, ended up building a mud "being" that became their "god." An excellent read, I highly recommend.
Colt
Well-Known Member
More than 500,000 years. Neanderthals had an afterlife belief.
We Never Know
No Slack
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Ahhhh. Okay. Thank you for clearing that up.
Theism is a subset of religion. Not all religious people are theists, but all theists are religious.
I'm not so sure about that.
Regardless, you mentioned chimpanzees seeing specific trees as significant. This barely qualifies as evidence of ritual. It's far short of evidence of religion, to say nothing of theistic religion.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
If humans did the identical behavior, we would immediately call it religious. That's really a sufficient argument in my eyes.
Certainly you are correct that it doesn't indicate theism. Theism is several steps beyond that. But we began doing religious observances LONG before we had theologies.
The first god-concept probably came from some Hominid having a moment of megalomania, so anywhere from perhaps half a million years ago to perhaps seven million years ago.
But the people who make a big deal of gods tend to be Abrahamics, who have a far more unique set of god-conceptions than it is usually acknowledged. So about four to eight thousand years for the original god-conceptions from Judaism, up to about fourteen to the rather unique idea that is the Islamic Allah.
But it really matters what you decide to accept as a god-concept.
Tomef
Well-Known Member
I can’t remember where I read this, but in the evolution of gods the humans have less and less control over them as civilisation progresses from small, nomadic tribes to settlements, cities, empires. Some of the research into the development of these ideas is based on observations of people who still live in small groups, hunting and gathering. In those small groups sometimes the god is expected to perform, and if it doesn’t, it will be abandoned or any image of it will be smashed. Once humans got to the level of living within empires, the gods became more remote, but also omnipresent, sort of like their distant but sometimes deified leaders.
Humans have been around for ~300,000+ years. Human Nature likely has not changed. It is likely that there were beliefs in hierarchial tribal beliefs early for reverence and beliefs of 'lords' and the afterlife.
Evidence of ceremonial burial: When Did Human Ancestors Start Burying Their Dead? | HISTORY
What is considered to be the oldest intentional human burial took place approximately 100,000 years ago in a cave in Qafzeh, Israel, where the remains of up to 15 early Homo sapiens were discovered during excavations in the 1930s and 1960s. More recently, the oldest deliberate human burial in Africa was unearthed in 2013 near the coast of Kenya, where, roughly 78,000 years ago, a small two-and-a-half- or three-year-old child was placed in the fetal position and laid to rest in a shallow grave.
These burials are intriguing not only for their age, but also because they’re early examples of a familiar ritual that we continue to practice today. But according to Pettit, the act itself isn’t as remarkable as many people might think.
What Prehistoric Cave Paintings Reveal About Early Human Life | HISTORY
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
One /G-d. How far back do you think the concept of God goes back
G-d revealed himself to the very first complete persons ever in different regions of the worlds who were able to communicate with Him and also with one another, please, right?
Regards
G-d revealed himself to the very first complete persons ever in different regions of the worlds who were able to communicate with Him and also with one another, please, right?
Regards
McBell
Unbound
“From the dawn of time we came…moving silently down through the centuries. Living many secret lives, struggling to reach the time of the gathering, when the few who remain will battle to the last. No one has ever known we were among you…..until now.“
~Juan Sánchez Villalobos Ramírez