Gods limitations

[Koldo]

I know that, but I don't think that humans can know more than God regarding what is actually in their best interest. Some humans might 'believe' they know more than God regarding what is in their best interest, but that is logically impossible, since no human can know more than an all-knowing God.

Sure, but merely knowing what is someone's best interest doesn't entail acting in someone's best interests.

 

[Koldo]

To improve in spite of our flaws. If humans were immortal, there would be no incentive to improve.

1) That presumes that improving is actually all that important, but it is a premise that needs to be substantiated.
2) Why weren't we created without a need to improve (perfect)?
3) Why couldn't we improve without suffering? I can give you multiple examples on how people improve without suffering.
4) What about suffering that serves no role on improving anyone?

 

[ppp]

As long as God does more good than harm, not evil.

Interesting claim.

The average person lives 27,000 days.

Bob provides the means to produce food and fresh clean water to billions of people, both during and after his left time. He lives a generous life, going over and above to both personally and systematically support his fellow beings, family, community, animals, and the environment. He also sexually assaults tortures and kills one homeless orphan a day over breakfast.

By your standard he is not evil.

 

[ppp]

To improve in spite of our flaws. If humans were immortal, there would be no incentive to improve. A person could sit and do nothing all day and it would be no different than a person who is productive.

Twaddle. My mortality was not an emotional reality to me until my 30s. It has never been a factor in my pursuit of knowledge, experiences or enlightenment. The whole mortality is necessary for motivation is a cute plot point. But utter bs.

 

[Brian2]

God must have a twin! Only way to escape a paradox.

God probably has other ways around it.
It's really a question for God to answer. All us humans can do is guess the answer.

 

[Brian2]

There are actually three horns to that dilemma. The third being that it can create the rock and lift it - and logic not applying to it. Which makes god irrational/paradoxical.

It's really a question for God to answer and for us to be in awe.

 

[dybmh]

Interesting claim.

The average person lives 27,000 days.

Bob provides the means to produce food and fresh clean water to billions of people, both during and after his left time. He lives a generous life, going over and above to both personally and systematically support his fellow beings, family, community, animals, and the environment. He also sexually assaults tortures and kills one homeless orphan a day over breakfast.

By your standard he is not evil.

You make a very good point. I have no rebuttal. You're right.

 

[Brian2]

Law of noncontradiction

Thanks for that. It looks as if others have come across such questions before us.

 

[Trailblazer]

Sure, but merely knowing what is someone's best interest doesn't entail acting in someone's best interests.

That's true....
but merely knowing what is someone's best interest doesn't entail not acting in someone's best interests either.

 

[Koldo]

That's true....
but merely knowing what is someone's best interest doesn't entail not acting in someone's best interests either.

Sure sure. But my main point was: You were referring to God's purpose to mankind, whereas that is largely irrelevant in conversations about human suffering unless we equate God's purpose to mankind's best interests.

 

[blü 2]

Can God create a Rock he cannot lift

We each have to design and define our own version of an omnipotent being. My omnipotent being would simply make the rock both liftable and unliftable simultaneously.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Can your god kill himself?

Another silly question. An eternal all powerful being by definition cannot die. If he could he would not be eternal.

 

[ppp]

Another silly question. An eternal all powerful being by definition cannot die. If he could he would not be eternal.

Then again. He is not omnipotent.
Y'all insist that your god is omnipotent then do nothing but continuously limit him at every step.

 

[ppp]

You make a very good point. I have no rebuttal. You're right.

The real question is will you continue to claim that your god, as per your above description, is good?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Then again. He is not omnipotent.
Y'all insist that your god is omnipotent then do nothing but continuously limit him at every step.

Um.. being omnipotent doesn't have anything to do with commiting suicide.

omnipotent
ŏm-nĭp′ə-tənt
adjective

1. Having unlimited or universal power, authority, or force; all-powerful.
2. Able in every respect and for every work; unlimited in ability; all-powerful; almighty.
3. Having unlimited power of a particular kind.

The ability to cease existence would actually make him less than all powerful.

 

[Trailblazer]

Sure sure. But my main point was: You were referring to God's purpose to mankind, whereas that is largely irrelevant in conversations about human suffering unless we equate God's purpose to mankind's best interests.

Sorry, you lost me.

 

[ppp]

Um.. being omnipotent doesn't have anything to do with commiting suicide.

It has everything to do with being able to accomplish anything.
Anything.
Anything.

Anything include making toast. Anything includes licking a star, Anything includes ending one's own existence.

Anything includes all of the actions, @Wildswanderer.

 

[Koldo]

Sorry, you lost me.

Notice how you have phrased this post:

"An omnipotent/omniscient God could have employed another way to accomplish His purpose for humans, but since God didn't employ another way any logical person would realize that suffering was the best way to accomplish His purposes for humans since an all-knowing God would have to know the best way.

Anyone who thinks there could have been a better way than the way God chose is patently illogical because it is logically impossible for any human to know more than an all-knowing God.!"

Notice how you have not referred to what is in humans' best interests but only to God's purposes for mankind.
I was saying that God's purposes for mankind is largely irrelevant in conversations about human suffering unless by that what you actually meant was what is in humans' best interest.

 

[Trailblazer]

Notice how you have not referred to what is in humans' best interests but only to God's purposes for mankind.
I was saying that God's purposes for mankind is largely irrelevant in conversations about human suffering unless by that what you actually meant was what is in humans' best interest.

I believe that God's purpose for mankind are in humans' best interest.
I believe that 'some' human suffering is beneficial for humans.
I do not believe that 'no' human suffering would be beneficial to humans.

 

[Heyo]

It's really a question for God to answer and for us to be in awe.

Nope.
If you claim that there is an omnipotent god, you have the burden of proof. You can't defer your burden to that what is in question. Your options for answer are 1. able to make the stone but not lift it, 2. unable to make the stone, 3. deny logic. 3 is an instant conversation stopper because, if you don't believe in reason, why should I reason with you?