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Google....So Much For The Slogan, "Don't Be Evil"
- Thread starter Revoltingest
- Start date
Maybe they have, maybe they haven't given it a lot of thought. I've given it a great deal of thought, and this is basically where I am at.
To me, it just seems like they threw up their arms and sort of acquiesced on the matter. It's far easier to normalize someone's problems and drug and cut them away than to seek the origins or root cause of these sorts of problems. I guess that's mostly why it doesn't sit right with me...And, while body dysphoria is a dilemma and a half -- I'm probably not seeing it any more different than condoned self-mutilation or harm. Even if it's just taking hormones, there are health consequences to such actions. This human guinea pig thing isn't my bag, and that doesn't sit right with me either. People are really only guessing at the long term effects of such actions, and this is truly not well researched area of medicine. Just because we can, doesn't mean we should, etc.
As for the brain, first we have to establish that there is a "female" brain and a "man" brain. The science on this is pretty clear that there actually isn't, most brains contain masculine and feminine features though a rare 5% are decidedly one or the other. (Based on studies of density of gray matter distribution in the brain related to various functions such as empathy, cognitive ability, motor control, and so on.) Based on that information, a dysphoria is purely a psychological manifestation not an anatomical one. Thus, there is no man trapped in woman's body and vice-versa, the brain is unisex in construction like many other non-reproduction related organs.
But, gender is terribly simplistic biologically, it's not really a point of argument. XY or XX, or some birth defect that mixes that up on occasion. Everything else is an identity that exists only in ones mind, but has nothing to do with physical characteristics. But, again, I'm older... We had our fems, tom-boys, and metro-sexuals and not once did any of them conclude they were walking around with the wrong set of plugs for their appliances. Gender is synonymous with sex, in parlance, gender identity is completely different ball of wax.
Anyway, as such conversations inevitably devolve to some sort of word soup it'll be all any posts after this will likely talk about. I'm gonna give this one a pass and post on some other topic.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
I believe there's a page about that on google.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
Your experience is not universal though. Sex changes started 100 years ago for gender dysphoria. People died in the early days of that just trying. You think they'd do that if gender dysphoria wasn't real? Though people love to judge others for what they don't themselves experience or have.
Never said it wasn't real, just defined what I meant by the real. There is physiology and stuff in the mental realm, it's obviously not the same thing and perfectly fine to draw the distinction. If someone decides to identify as a unicorn, I have the ability to see that they are not a white horse with a horn growing out of their head. The observation doesn't line up with their statement.
As far as judging people, not going to feel bad about it because it's quality control. Everyone judges everyone to some degree, so anyone saying they're not is just lying or that deluded they cannot admit it to themselves. We're constantly doing it whether it's over politics, musical preference, and the associations we keep. This is just an absurd argument, people trying to "control" what's O.K. to have a preference for. Screw that, my head, my preferences. It doesn't bother me that some people think they're transgender, either, despite my lack of trust in that analysis and the evidence that I feel is to the contrary.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
No one is born feeling like a unicorn though so it's an example of your bias towards the whole thing. I see the same stuff about attack helicopters just about everywhere in English channels every time something like this is brought up. It's a manipulative narrative to lump a group of people into another, "weirder group" and dishonor them by association. I don't think it's honest.Never said it wasn't real, just defined what I meant by the real. There is physiology and stuff in the mental realm, it's obviously not the same thing and perfectly fine to draw the distinction. If someone decides to identify as a unicorn, I have the ability to see that they are not a white horse with a horn growing out of their head. The observation doesn't line up with their statement.
So you've chosen a weak narrative on preference? I'd rather look at the whole thing from a scientific perspective, and not one of those manipulated "hey, here's how I feel about XX and XY, we should stick to it because it's what dudes are fond of saying on the net".
It is a "weird group" statistically, so no attempt needs to be made to qualify it as such. Similarly, stating that fact implies nothing else.
My point of that was still along those lines, but my preferences and observations are simply congruent, in this regard. And no, it's what objectively exists -- everything else is an opinion.
Opinions, even if they're popular are still opinions without supporting evidence.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
What you're now saying is different. You wouldn't feel the need to bring up unicorns if you weren't trying to manipulate those with gender dysphoria to another group with weaker support, an outlier. Similar to theistic satanists being guys who liked too much LARP and got stuck in some character. Not that it's the truth, but you can say it if you want to sell your opinion or more accurately some opinion you were sold by a group peddling the narrative.
It's a narrative you subscribe to nothing else. Yes, it is what you think objectively exists. Not what actually exists. Do you reject what parts of modern sciences?My point of that was still along those lines, but my preferences and observations are simply congruent, in this regard. And no, it's what objectively exists -- everything else is an opinion.
This is where listening to others comes in.
One
Yeah, more a criticism on the news than anything else.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I wish there was a profit in it. There is the satisfaction that I'll be able to get my master's degree and have a place where I'll be needed to help other transgender people. But other than that it's been an anti-profit as far as the bank account is concerned. Mentally and emotionally the profits have been far beyond what "profit" encompasses.
They have, and they can't change the structures and shapes of the brain.
Apparently you're being duped into thinking you're trans
by Big Medicine...or the Medical Industrial Complex.
So they say. I'm skeptical.
I'll take your word for what you say about your own situation.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
The Hijra have been doing them for longer than 100 years. What we call "transgender," those types of people have been around since antiquity AEB very ancient burial grounds that have been found that features what seems at first glance a same-sex male-male couple BUT one of them is buried in the same manner as all the women.
And, that is a very good point of the fact people have been doing this despite the risk. Modern surgery for a sex change has advanced very far from the early days, and even the early days was a very different approach from more primitive methods found at various cultures in various times.
Yeah, I promise you, we were there. You just don't listen, or pay attention, or want to accept facts
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
The "theys" I'm closest to don't say that. AMA, APA, ACA, those "theys" are far more numerous and have tons more research and data than they few "theys" who are science deniers, and catching on to this larger social trend of everyone wanting to pretend and insist they're an expert and masquerade around as those who hold doctorate and master level degrees in psychology and psychiatry - with the charade falling apart as soon as they open their mouth around anyone who holds a license to practice in the field. You need not take my word, there is the word of those who have sliced up the brains of dead transgender people, of groups that never had hormones and those that did, and noticed that the brains of transsexuals look more like what they identify as rather than what they were assigned at birth. And also the word of the WPATH, which includes an extensive repository worth of citations of studies that have examined various issues and areas of concern regarding transgender people. Now, of course not everyone who practices medicine (physical or mental) accepts what their larger governing bodies have states regarding transgender people, but even in Indiana I had more accepting practitioners than those who were oppositional.
Research? Doctors? Experts?
How can you trust them when you don't even know their level of Bible learn'n?
(Pssst.....don't tell anyone, but I'm taking your side on this.)
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Of course! We must consider the Bible lern'd'ness of those people in such positions. All those scientist who would deny us our dove's blood when leprosy is cured are only trying to scare us with that fake news of those fake germs. And with Bible lern'd'ness comes the truth that all LGBT people are out to destroy society and make you lay aside your women to pork a sheep. This is so obviously true that even those who aren't Evangelical have taken to the Truthiness of Bible lern'd'ness.
The problem that I think you are missing is that you accept the body's sexual organs as "objectively existing," but then make the error of suggesting that mind is something else. Please try to remember that mind is a function of brain, and brain objectively exists.It is a "weird group" statistically, so no attempt needs to be made to qualify it as such. Similarly, stating that fact implies nothing else.
My point of that was still along those lines, but my preferences and observations are simply congruent, in this regard. And no, it's what objectively exists -- everything else is an opinion.
"[T]he journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences published slightly more substantial research into what it is about male sweat that might trigger a response in the brains of gay men and heterosexual women. Swedish scientists established in an earlier piece of research that the hypothalamus region of the brain became activated when men detected an oestrogen steroid known as EST, and women's brains lit up when they got a whiff of a testosterone derivative known to biochemists as AND. In the latest study, they used brain imaging equipment to test the responses of homosexual men, and heterosexual men and women, to EST, AND and other smells such as lavender. AND set the hypothalamus alight in homosexual men and heterosexual women. EST worked for heterosexual men alone.
So the research shows that the human brain responds differently to these potential pheromones — pheromones are the agencies of attraction in the animal world — and that there could be a link between sexual orientation and brain function." (Source = Can gay men and women really sense each other by smell?)
Now, it is important to notice that we are talking about the physical brain, and how it responds physically to the pheromones produced by other humans. And if mind is a product of brain, then the brains of some people are wired differently than others of the same apparent gender.
I grant that this is not the same thing as saying that there is a "female brain" and a "male brain," but if pheromones affect people differently, it is because they are acting on brain structures, not cognitive ones. And if brains are structurally different, then surely one can accept that the cognitive and psychological functions of those brains might also be different -- not for reasons of "mental health," but for reasons of brain structure. And those objectively exist.