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Guns, Guns, Guns!!!

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Now that I have your attention...

I want to take a moment and explain a few things about me and my views. Some of you have been coming at me for some of my posts, which is fine, and I expect it. I personally don't put much stock in the opinions of anonymous internet posters, so fire away (pun intended)!

I am a US citizen and I grew up in the South. Guns are a part of my culture as I was raised around them. I do sport shooting, hunting (yes we eat what we kill), and as a cop I carry one on duty (and off). There are millions of guns in the US. That is a fact that can't be ignored. People from other countries may say "you should do this or this," but what works where you live might not be so easy to pull off over here. If you did not grow up in the gun culture, you won't understand the gun culture.

Here is the kicker...I wish that guns had never been invented. There, I said it! :eek:

However, the reality is that guns were invented, they are everywhere, and there will always be people that want them. Some reasons are legitimate such as sporting, hunting or protection. A vast majority of law abiding citizens fall into those three categories. The US Constitution by way of the 2nd Amendment, grants US citizens the right to own guns. The US Supreme Court, which is the highest court in the land, has affirmed that gun ownership is a citizen's right, although the decision was split 5-4 between the 9 judges. A majority won with 5, so until further notice, that is the LAW. End of argument.

What is not defined by federal law, and is actually left up to each state, is what qualifies as a gun that a citizen can own. Liberal states will say no assault rifles or magazines that hold more than X amount of rounds. Conservative states will say that semi-automatic assault rifles are fine, as are high capacity magazines. It all depends on where you are living in the country. Again, it is cultural.

Now, does John Q. Citizen NEED an AR-15 styled assault rifle? Absolutely not. But that is not the point. It is not about need, but rather what he has the right to own if he so chooses. I could say the same thing about vehicles. No one NEEDS a Porsche, Ferrari or Lamborghini, but people WANT one because...they can.

If there was a magic wand that I could wave and disintegrate every gun on the planet, I would not hesitate. But we live in a world overrun with guns, and so we must live with the hand that was dealt to us. I am a libertarian as far as political affiliation goes, and that is why I defend law abiding gun owners and the 2nd Amendment. If the law changes and it is found to be Constitutional, then I will support it as well.

People are quick to jump up and down, scream and yell when something happens and they don't like it, such as a mass shooting with a gun. Those same people remain silent or reverse their position when it is something that they like or enjoy. For example:

1. Millions of people smoke. Tobacco kills upwards of 500,000 people in the US each year, compared to 30,000 gun deaths. Why aren't those same anti-gun people making a fuss about tobacco, since it kills 17x more people? Because many of them smoke. Don't even think about saying smoking is a personal issue and does not hurt anyone else. Almost 54,000 people die each year because of second hand smoke. That is almost TWICE the amount of deaths caused by guns. Check the CDC if you like.

2. Alcohol kills upwards of 85,000 people in the US each year. That is almost three times as many people vs guns. The same points from #1 apply here.

There is not a universal answer for the gun issue in the US. Groups/regions/states will be divided, no matter what the proposition is. One can only hope that aliens come down, remove all guns, missiles and weapons of war, inform us what the one true religion really is (if any), disintegrate criminals with their green proton phasers, destroy the capacity to create alcohol and tobacco products, cure all diseases, replenish the o-zone, and then finally give us a peaceful planet to live on. :D
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
The US Constitution by way of the 2nd Amendment, grants US citizens the right to own guns. The US Supreme Court, which is the highest court in the land, has affirmed that gun ownership is a citizen's right, although the decision was split 5-4 between the 9 judges. A majority won with 5, so until further notice, that is the LAW. End of argument.
Just a question. I am under the impression that there are some kinds of guns that are banned in the U.S. Is that true?
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
Just a question. I am under the impression that there are some kinds of guns that are banned in the U.S. Is that true?

Yes, there are bans and/or restrictions.

In order to purchase a fully automatic weapon, the buyer must go through a dealer that has the appropriate Federal Firearms License (FFL). The paperwork is submitted to the federal Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms agency (ATF) and after careful review and in-depth background checks, the buyer may be approved for the purchase. This is a lengthy process and often times, John Q. Citizen is denied because they have not given a valid reason as to why they need such a weapon. There are other restrictions, and there are items that no citizen can legally own.

It is for this reason that most people opt for the semi-auto versions of firearms. They look the same as their full-auto cousins, take the same ammo and can be decked out with the same accessories.

Then you have state laws that vary. Some states will allow full-auto weapons if approved for purchase, while others do not.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Fully automatic weapons are.

Yes, there are bans and/or restrictions.
So even the 2nd amendment is not absolute. It seems that it is constitutional to ban certain weapons.

So why can't we even discuss having a "careful review and in-depth background checks" for some other classes of weapons that are designed for military purposes?
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
So even the 2nd amendment is not absolute. It seems that it is constitutional to ban certain weapons.

So why can't we even discuss having a "careful review and in-depth background checks" for some other classes of weapons that are designed for military purposes?

The 2nd Amendment only states that citizens have the right to own guns. It does not define what guns can or can't be owned.

The 50 individual states all have different gun laws, and those laws include what the citizens of those states can or can't own when it comes to guns. Some states even restrict the size of the magazine that holds the ammo for the gun. Other states say that you can have a gun on your private property, but not on public property. The Southern and Midwestern states are more lenient toward gun ownership vs the Northeastern or West Coast states.

Ironically, the more strict the state is with gun laws, the higher the crime rate tends to be per capita, within its major cities. Go figure.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
So even the 2nd amendment is not absolute. It seems that it is constitutional to ban certain weapons.

So why can't we even discuss having a "careful review and in-depth background checks" for some other classes of weapons that are designed for military purposes?
We can, although I'm not particularly interested in it.


.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
The 2nd Amendment only states that citizens have the right to own guns. It does not define what guns can or can't be owned.

The 50 individual states all have different gun laws, and those laws include what the citizens of those states can or can't own when it comes to guns. Some states even restrict the size of the magazine that holds the ammo for the gun. Other states say that you can have a gun on your private property, but not on public property. The Southern and Midwestern states are more lenient toward gun ownership vs the Northeastern or West Coast states.

Ironically, the more strict the state is with gun laws, the higher the crime rate tends to be per capita, within its major cities. Go figure.
So maybe you need to take a Federal approach.
 

Neo Deist

Th.D. & D.Div. h.c.
So maybe you need to take a Federal approach.

If only it were that easy. When the country was founded, the government was designed so that the states had the power and could govern themselves, instead of a central/federal government. Our Constitution was written that way and it would take an Amendment to the Constitution before that could happen.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
The second amendment only legalized muskets, and single shot pistols, I believe.
 
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fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
If only it were that easy. When the country was founded, the government was designed so that the states had the power and could govern themselves, instead of a central/federal government. Our Constitution was written that way and it would take an Amendment to the Constitution before that could happen.
But when Skwim said...
Fully automatic weapons are. {banned}
and you said....
Yes, there are bans and/or restrictions.
These are Federal restrictions. Are they not?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Fully automatic weapons are.
True. But any citizen can obtain one through a very lengthy, costly, and intense permit process, and even then, it must be in a designated arms room by which the weapon must be checked out and in from.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The second amendment only legalized muskets, and single shooter pistols, I believe.
Honestly, muzzle loading and bolt action firearms would meet most people's needs imo, so I do agree with that on a personal level. I'm fine with a shotgun and 22 rifle, but restricting weapon capacity and caliber shouldn't be limited, yet stop short of full automatic capabilities that should be reserved for Goverment use.

You don't want to be armed like paramilitary outfits, but not so much disadvantaged that would encourage tyrannical government systems to flourish. Seems that's arguable these days, as most free world governments are reasonably stable for the time being.
 

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice
Premium Member
Yes but, there is a difference between banned and restricted. The latter can still be obtained if you jump through all the hoops and get approved.
Fantastic, so lets discuss restricting certain classes of weapons. If people really need them let them jump through a few hoops (or a lot of hoops).
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
THE LARGEST MASS SHOOTING IN US HISTORY HAPPENED December 29,1890. When 297 Sioux Indians at Wounded Knee Creek on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in South Dakota were murdered by federal agents & members of the 7th Cavalry who had come to confiscate their firearms “for their own safety and protection”. The slaughter began after the majority of the Sioux had peacefully turned in their firearms. The Calvary began shooting, and managed to wipe out the entire camp. 200 of the 297 victims were women and children.

Wounded Knee was among the first federally backed gun confiscation attempts in United States history. It ended in the senseless murder of 297 people.

Food for thought.

About fully auto weapons most call machine guns and other weapons such as
rocket launchers, mortars, and such.
They CAN be legally bought and used by ANY U.S. citizen who has NO criminal
record and swears they are not a drug addict or "mentally defective".
I know a few guys with the bucks that have a couple fully automatic guns.
(machine guns & such).
Even the huge ma duce. The mighty .50 caliber machine gun.
Cost of ammo if about a buck a round, likely much more now.
I have no interest in such weapons for good reasons.
I don't have the bucks to buy one.
I CAN'T afford to feed one.
If I had the bucks I might have one but I don't.
My interest in firearms is ACCURACY and a bit of hunting and of course
the ability to defend mine and me against a threat.
I'm well trained in defensive armed combat and a trained anti sniper sniper.
I trained with the Columbus Oh. S.W.A.T. officers in Columbus and other
training facilities that are secret.
I once shot up 5,000 rounds of ammo in one week in training.
What a BLAST! (pun intended):D
If I perceive an armed threat and have a weapon available I believe I'll use it.
There is NO training I ever heard of that trains anyone to shoot to wound.
That's bull$hit.
The reason being that if one uses a firearm in legal defense one MUST assume
DEATH of the targeted subject WILL result.
That makes using a firearm in defense a very serious matter indeed.
I don't take such a notion lightly.
In police work I could have shot a person in at least three occasions that I recall.
At the last second I stopped.
It worked out.
Two subjects surrendered and one shot himself dead.
So it goes.
I am sooooooo GREATFUL that I never had to kill a person.
I doubt I could live with me.
A friend, a deputy. shot three armed robbers. Two died, one lived all messed up
and went to prison.
The deputy had all kinds of emotional issues over that and had to take a disability
retirement.
Two years later he blew his brains out!
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
There is no actual difference between the hunting rifle or the "assault" rifle other than one has some more rails, a heat shield, or maybe a muzzle brake/flash hider. Thus, it basically comes down to cosmetics and silliness and the more gun ban crowd talks the less informed they look. People buy these weapons because they are more reliable, easily repairable, and features along those lines. You can get 20-30 round magazines for any of these guns and nearly any popular hunting rifle. There is also the stupidity of banning these weapons vs banning shotguns. A 12 gauge w/00 shot is basically like shooting a six shot .38 revolver in one blast. Technically, shotguns move the most lead period even if they pump. They can put nearly 40-50 pistol rounds worth of lead out in about ten seconds. Sure, you gotta reload after that... But, yeah.. It is obvious no logic is used in the rules.

Most firearm owners go through their entire lives shooting paper targets and junk and never use the weapon on a living creature. For the same reason that we do not ban "all Muslims" for act of one terrorist, I think it is silly to "ban all guns" for the same reason. 99.9% of all gun owners are harmless.
 
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