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HAL in 2001: A Space Odyssey

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Like many film and sci-fi fans, I greatly enjoyed 2001: A Space Odyssey, although I had issues with the sub-plot with HAL and how the crew (Bowman and Poole) reacted to HAL's alleged "error" regarding the perceived failure of the AE-35 unit.

Most interpretations seem to center on HAL being given conflicting and contradictory instructions. Mainly, HAL's core programming emphasized giving complete, accurate information. (He notes in the beginning that he is incapable of error.) He is literally programmed not to lie, yet the leaders of the mission programmed HAL with classified information and was programmed to not reveal that information to either Bowman or Poole. Some people believe that this contradictory led to an internal conflict within HAL, which made him "insane," and this is what led him to kill Poole and attempt to kill Bowman. These same interpretations apparently conclude that HAL made the decision to kill Bowman and Poole the exact moment he notified Bowman about the alleged fault in the AE-35 unit (which he knew would require the crew to go outside the ship to replace it, putting them at risk and giving HAL the opportunity to kill them and make it look like an accident.

In the movie, Bowman goes outside and replaces the AE-35 unit, brings it back inside, and they do a diagnostic, and it appears there is nothing wrong with it. Here is the dialogue of the scene:

Mission control: X-ray-delta-one this is mission control. Roger your two-zero-one-three. Sorry you fellows are having a bit of trouble. We are reviewing, er, telemetric information in out mission simulator and, er, will advise. Roger your plan to go E.V.A. and replace alpha-echo-three-five unit prior to failure.

Bowman: Well, Hal. I'm damned if I can find anything wrong with it.

HAL 9000: Yes. It's puzzling. I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before. I would recommend that we put the unit back in operation and let it fail. It should then be a simple matter to track down the cause. We can certainly afford to be out of communication for the short time it will take to replace it.

Mission control: X-ray-delta-one this is mission control. Roger your one-niner-three-zero. We concur with your plan to replace number one unit to check fault prediction. We should advise you, however, that our preliminary findings indicate that your on-board niner-triple-zero computer is in error predicting the fault. I say again in error predicting the fault. I know this sounds rather incredible but this conclusion is based on results from our twin niner-triple-zero computer. We are skeptical ourselves and we are running cross checking routines to determine reliability of this conclusion. Sorry about this little snag, fellows. And we'll get this info to you just as soon as we work it out. X-ray-delta-one this is mission control two-zero-four-niner transmission concluded.

HAL 9000: I hope the two of you are not concerned about this.

Bowman: No, I'm not Hal.

HAL 9000: Are you quite sure?

Bowman: Yeah. I'd like to ask you a question, though.

HAL 9000: Of course.

Bowman: How would you account for this discrepancy between you and the twin nine-thousand?
HAL 9000: Well, I don't think there is any question about it. It can only be attributable to human error. This sort of thing has cropped up before and it has always been due to human error.

Poole: Listen, Hal. There's never been any instance at all of a computer error occurring in the nine-thousand series has there?

HAL 9000: None whatsoever, Frank. The nine-thousand series has a perfect operational record.

Poole: Well, of course, I know all about the wonderful achievements of the nine-thousand series but, er, are you certain there's never been any case of even the most insignificant computer error?

HAL 9000: None, whatsoever, Frank. Quite honestly I wouldn't worry myself about that.

Bowman: Well, I'm sure you're right, Hal. Erm, fine. Thanks very much. Oh, Frank, I'm having a bit of trouble with my transmitter in C-pod. I wonder if you'd come down take a look at it with me.

Poole: Sure. See you later, Hal.


It's after this scene that Bowman and Poole go into one of the pods to talk privately about HAL's "error," and they decide that HAL is malfunctioning and must be shut down. If HAL was a sentient crew member, they'd effectively be killing him. HAL is able to read their lips during the discussion, and realizes what they're planning.

I believe that it's at this point that HAL decides that Bowman and Poole have to be eliminated. Prior to that, HAL did not appear to have any plans of killing them (which would diverge from most other interpretations of HAL inexplicably going "insane" and deciding to kill them before their conversation in the pod).

As for the "error" in predicting the AE 35 failure, it's entirely possible that it was neither HAL's error nor human error. Perhaps one of the contact points for the AE 35 bent or was registering incorrect data. Perhaps whatever wiring or conduit leading from HAL's central processing unit to the AE 35 may have failed somewhere along the way. They didn't even bother to consider this possibility, nor did they try to discuss it further with HAL or even try to reason with him. They just suddenly decided that HAL had "gone crazy" for no reason and that he had to be murdered. It was Bowman and Poole who went insane, not HAL.

Any fans of 2001 out there? What do you think?
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
I watched the film then read the book. I have to say the book.filled in a lot of *what?" moments that left me hanging in the film.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
I watched the film then read the book. I have to say the book.filled in a lot of *what?" moments that left me hanging in the film.
But the ending actually was a compromise as both the author [Clark] and director [Kubrick] had different ideas as to how it should end, so they came up with that very confusing, but exciting, ending.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
But the ending actually was a compromise as both the author [Clark] and director [Kubrick] had different ideas as to how it should end, so they came up with that very confusing, but exciting, ending.

Great ending in the film but was confusing for sure, the book solved that confusion.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Like many film and sci-fi fans, I greatly enjoyed 2001: A Space Odyssey, although I had issues with the sub-plot with HAL and how the crew (Bowman and Poole) reacted to HAL's alleged "error" regarding the perceived failure of the AE-35 unit.

Most interpretations seem to center on HAL being given conflicting and contradictory instructions. Mainly, HAL's core programming emphasized giving complete, accurate information. (He notes in the beginning that he is incapable of error.) He is literally programmed not to lie, yet the leaders of the mission programmed HAL with classified information and was programmed to not reveal that information to either Bowman or Poole. Some people believe that this contradictory led to an internal conflict within HAL, which made him "insane," and this is what led him to kill Poole and attempt to kill Bowman. These same interpretations apparently conclude that HAL made the decision to kill Bowman and Poole the exact moment he notified Bowman about the alleged fault in the AE-35 unit (which he knew would require the crew to go outside the ship to replace it, putting them at risk and giving HAL the opportunity to kill them and make it look like an accident.

In the movie, Bowman goes outside and replaces the AE-35 unit, brings it back inside, and they do a diagnostic, and it appears there is nothing wrong with it. Here is the dialogue of the scene:

Mission control: X-ray-delta-one this is mission control. Roger your two-zero-one-three. Sorry you fellows are having a bit of trouble. We are reviewing, er, telemetric information in out mission simulator and, er, will advise. Roger your plan to go E.V.A. and replace alpha-echo-three-five unit prior to failure.

Bowman: Well, Hal. I'm damned if I can find anything wrong with it.

HAL 9000: Yes. It's puzzling. I don't think I've ever seen anything quite like this before. I would recommend that we put the unit back in operation and let it fail. It should then be a simple matter to track down the cause. We can certainly afford to be out of communication for the short time it will take to replace it.

Mission control: X-ray-delta-one this is mission control. Roger your one-niner-three-zero. We concur with your plan to replace number one unit to check fault prediction. We should advise you, however, that our preliminary findings indicate that your on-board niner-triple-zero computer is in error predicting the fault. I say again in error predicting the fault. I know this sounds rather incredible but this conclusion is based on results from our twin niner-triple-zero computer. We are skeptical ourselves and we are running cross checking routines to determine reliability of this conclusion. Sorry about this little snag, fellows. And we'll get this info to you just as soon as we work it out. X-ray-delta-one this is mission control two-zero-four-niner transmission concluded.

HAL 9000: I hope the two of you are not concerned about this.

Bowman: No, I'm not Hal.

HAL 9000: Are you quite sure?

Bowman: Yeah. I'd like to ask you a question, though.

HAL 9000: Of course.

Bowman: How would you account for this discrepancy between you and the twin nine-thousand?
HAL 9000: Well, I don't think there is any question about it. It can only be attributable to human error. This sort of thing has cropped up before and it has always been due to human error.

Poole: Listen, Hal. There's never been any instance at all of a computer error occurring in the nine-thousand series has there?

HAL 9000: None whatsoever, Frank. The nine-thousand series has a perfect operational record.

Poole: Well, of course, I know all about the wonderful achievements of the nine-thousand series but, er, are you certain there's never been any case of even the most insignificant computer error?

HAL 9000: None, whatsoever, Frank. Quite honestly I wouldn't worry myself about that.

Bowman: Well, I'm sure you're right, Hal. Erm, fine. Thanks very much. Oh, Frank, I'm having a bit of trouble with my transmitter in C-pod. I wonder if you'd come down take a look at it with me.

Poole: Sure. See you later, Hal.


It's after this scene that Bowman and Poole go into one of the pods to talk privately about HAL's "error," and they decide that HAL is malfunctioning and must be shut down. If HAL was a sentient crew member, they'd effectively be killing him. HAL is able to read their lips during the discussion, and realizes what they're planning.

I believe that it's at this point that HAL decides that Bowman and Poole have to be eliminated. Prior to that, HAL did not appear to have any plans of killing them (which would diverge from most other interpretations of HAL inexplicably going "insane" and deciding to kill them before their conversation in the pod).

As for the "error" in predicting the AE 35 failure, it's entirely possible that it was neither HAL's error nor human error. Perhaps one of the contact points for the AE 35 bent or was registering incorrect data. Perhaps whatever wiring or conduit leading from HAL's central processing unit to the AE 35 may have failed somewhere along the way. They didn't even bother to consider this possibility, nor did they try to discuss it further with HAL or even try to reason with him. They just suddenly decided that HAL had "gone crazy" for no reason and that he had to be murdered. It was Bowman and Poole who went insane, not HAL.

Any fans of 2001 out there? What do you think?
It's definitely a classic.

Frightening part is ai is getting to a point now that we ought to be concerned about the dangers of creating something that could bring an end to civilization as we know it.
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Most interpretations seem to center on HAL being given conflicting and contradictory instructions. Mainly, HAL's core programming emphasized giving complete, accurate information. (He notes in the beginning that he is incapable of error.) He is literally programmed not to lie, yet the leaders of the mission programmed HAL with classified information and was programmed to not reveal that information to either Bowman or Poole. Some people believe that this contradictory led to an internal conflict within HAL, which made him "insane," and this is what led him to kill Poole and attempt to kill Bowman. These same interpretations apparently conclude that HAL made the decision to kill Bowman and Poole the exact moment he notified Bowman about the alleged fault in the AE-35 unit (which he knew would require the crew to go outside the ship to replace it, putting them at risk and giving HAL the opportunity to kill them and make it look like an accident.

Any fans of 2001 out there? What do you think?
I read the book, and while I don't remember the specifics there were indications there that HAL was forced to lie and was unable to handle the lie.

In the 2010 film Dave and HAL are reunited, and I don't remember what transpires. That film may have the answer as to what happened.
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
On reflection, I think it would be illogical to program an AI to think that it could not make an error...we saw the results often enough in Kirk vs. whatever computer was trying to kill him/purge the universe of imperfect living things...
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
On reflection, I think it would be illogical to program an AI to think that it could not make an error...we saw the results often enough in Kirk vs. whatever computer was trying to kill him/purge the universe of imperfect living things...

True, although the humans Poole and Bowman were just as flabbergasted and seemed to think that a relatively minor error meant that HAL's AI "went crazy" and had to be destroyed.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I read the book, and while I don't remember the specifics there were indications there that HAL was forced to lie and was unable to handle the lie.

In the 2010 film Dave and HAL are reunited, and I don't remember what transpires. That film may have the answer as to what happened.

HAL was ostensibly designed to be "perfect," incapable of any error or mistake. He mentioned that early on in the mission. A lie is, among other things, an "error" - inaccurate information.

So, his core programming was something like "don't make an error," but there was other programming saying to "make an error." I wondered if HAL was sentient enough to consider confiding in Dave and Frank about his misgivings. I don't know that AI can just "go crazy," but that's how it can often be portrayed in movies. Was HAL a sentient being who developed mental illness, or was he just a machine that malfunctioned due to faulty programming?

2010 wasn't a bad sequel. It certainly didn't have the same style or sense of awe one might have 2001, but I'd still consider it a decent, respectable sci-fi film. A lot of people didn't like it, but I didn't think it was that bad.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
s for the "error" in predicting the AE 35 failure, it's entirely possible that it was neither HAL's error nor human error. Perhaps one of the contact points for the AE 35 bent or was registering incorrect data.
I thought that conflict was a bad point for the story, especially to have two computers who are full proof and incapable of error saying two different things about the same thing. And it all felt forced after that. A connection that came loose, dust interfering with a contact point, there are many small things like that to explain for it all, especially how the machine wired into it all is the only entity able to notice any error with it.
But I also feel HAL wouldn't have been so clueless about it all regardless the source of the problem.
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
I thought that conflict was a bad point for the story, especially to have two computers who are full proof and incapable of error saying two different things about the same thing. And it all felt forced after that. A connection that came loose, dust interfering with a contact point, there are many small things like that to explain for it all, especially how the machine wired into it all is the only entity able to notice any error with it.
But I also feel HAL wouldn't have been so clueless about it all regardless the source of the problem.
Certainly, HAL should have been able to suggest the dust, loose connectors, etc., alternative explanations.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Certainly, HAL should have been able to suggest the dust, loose connectors, etc., alternative explanations.
Yeah. And it's not like electronics were so new they didn't have any potential consultants nearby. I haven't read the book, but the movie I feel that was bad enough writing to ruin it. Nothing of it made sense. It was like watching a five year old as a red dot trying to explain what's wrong with something, just because it all just feels kind of funny and weird.
And then the rest of story is forced to mold around an inexplicable error that just doesn't work. It doesn't. Everyone involved would have been intrigued and possibly alarmed over conflicting reports from two "full proof" machines, with one machine being either the worst liar ever or worst ever at coming up with excuses for the most naive crew ever.
I wanted to watch more of the chimpanzees or whatever they were.
 
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