It's also that good, ethical people are being targeted with death threats and their families are scared out of their wits. This leaves the door open to unethical people. The good people aren't going to win this political atmosphere with so many right wing extremists.
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Has "Trumpism" moved beyond Trump to actually trying to destroy the US Democracy?
- Thread starter Evangelicalhumanist
- Start date
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
This reminds me of an extremely devout Trump supporter that I came across online awhile back, and this rather peculiar devout Trump supporter has perpetually claimed that Donald Trump and Mike Pence are the two witnesses in the Book of Revelation. He even includes a plethora of scriptures, which he believes validates his belief. He's been unmoved by all the repeated efforts from other people to refute him. I've never met another Trump supporter who agrees with him, but I've met plenty who honestly believe that Trump was ordained by God, and God will re-install him as president in the appointed time. They believe this to be true.
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PureX
Veteran Member
Term limits wouldn't work because they'd have no incentive to clean up their act. They'd be forced out, anyway. They need that chance to keep their crown to make them do whatever is necessary to keep it.
PureX
Veteran Member
We are just about to lose our ability to elect them. In some states the gerrymandering and electioneering are so bad that once in power we can't get rid of them. And sadly, we-the-people will continue to do nothing about any of this because all we care about now is that "our team wins" by whatever lying and cheating and stealing is necessary to get it done.
In many ways we have already lost (thrown away) any real democracy we had when we decisded to deliberately elect liars and cheats and criminals so long as they promised to rig the system to favor our own personal agendas.
More testament to the sheer looniness of what we humans are willing to believe!
As if we needed more evidence.
That was also the point of supporting Trump.
Even before Trump, attacking American democracy was the Republicans' stock and trade, with things like gerrymandering and voter suppression.
I agree. I really have no confidence that there can be any authentic democracy in the USA any more. Some folks are confident and believe the people will not allow a dishonest system. But I can't see republicans giving up on what they see as their path to attain control. The only possibility is if there can be lawsuits against those who impede democracy, but that is only if there are laws that can be ruled on. There is a lot of power in the hands of states to manage democracy any way they want. This is why there is the are voting rights legislation, but are held up in the Senate. It's held up in the Senate because Republicans license won't support voting rights.
So I suspect the USA type of "democracy" will look more like democracy in Russia under Putin. It'll just be a type of collaborative dictatorship.
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metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
In hope you're wrong, but I'm afraid you may end up being spot-on.
Who woulda thought that the Republican Party would end up being a bastardization of its conservative past.
I know there are more political conservatives in this group. I find their avoiding this topic interesting. They don't seem willing to even vote in the poll.
I suspect conservative voters are probably uneasy about what republicans are doing, but are just going along with them anyway since it looks like they might get away with it. Is it peer pressure? Do other wise ethical conservatives fear the trumpers around them?
I suspect conservative voters are probably uneasy about what republicans are doing, but are just going along with them anyway since it looks like they might get away with it. Is it peer pressure? Do other wise ethical conservatives fear the trumpers around them?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
I think many of them think they're conservatives, and undoubtedly some are.
However, Trump is certainly not a fiscal conservative, nor a political conservative, nor a social conservative. These areas are the "trifecta" of conservativism, and yet opinion polls show that he has had much more than a 50% approval rating, plus most of the Pubs in Congress have bowed to his demands and refusing to counter him.
Basically, they are now "populists" who kiss his ring.
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
What do you expect them to do, vote for the party they've invested their entire identities in hating?
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
Sorry white males in general, but mostly if they are "Christian," and hetero. I think the party would be okay if they jettisoned the religious right. Normal people would return if that happened.
Sand Dancer
Currently catless
It would take a long time to undo the damage though.
PureX
Veteran Member
It's already here. The difference is that instead of an actual despotic dictator, we have corporate funded "super pacs" like ALEC meeting with legislators on both sides of the isle, in secret, to plot legislative strategies giving their corporate sponsors ever more power and economic advantage.
There is no single mega-maniacal dictator, there is just the boundless greed of a small group of very, very wealthy people wielding their economic power however they wish. And there is very little standing in their way, anymore. They have succeeded in corrupting state and federal courts, judges, legislators, media news organizations, and even many religious leaders. Certainly no one in politics dares to ignore them. If they do, they will not be in political office for long.
Every so often some reporter will expose one of these secret meetings between ALEC and their paid whoring state or federal legislators, but the story is quickly washed away in the endless litany of police shootings, school shootings, and all the social bickering they tend to stir up. Seems that stuff makes for a great smoke screen for the powers behind the phony thrones.
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Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
I don't really believe US Democrats are extraordinarily "ethical" or "honorable". I think this is more of a testament to their fundamental difference in terms of how either party is structured.
The way I see it as an outsider to US politics, the US Republican party has become a classic European style right-wing populist/xenophobic party, and as such is primarily oriented around building up enemies that their supporter base can rally against. They may shed or re-gain the support of various communities as time goes on (it will certainly be interesting to see whether they can retain the support of both white supremacist and minority conservative factions) but fundamentally, they can keep going like this so long as they can find and maintain acceptable targets to rage and rally against. Trans people may at this point be the most popular choice because they are a tiny minority with no political clout, and there is of course the tried-and-true topic of anti-immigration, which has been successful among European xenophobes as well.
The one danger they're in which you have rightly pointed out is that this program is inherently divisive, and especially with white supremacist rhetoric an element of growing importance, the US Republicans will remain a party for a minority of the population - a substantial minority, mind you, but a minority nonetheless. Even in Europe, where white supremacy is consistently more popular, right-wing xenophobes have only managed to climb into power via coalitions with more established conservative or centrist parties - and the Republicans have been consistently shedding their more centrist elements since Trump came to power. Which leaves voter suppression as one of the few remaining strategies to ensure a Republican victory in regular non-rigged elections.
The US Democratic party, meanwhile, is probably closer to a European-style coalition that has a variety of factional interests to please and keep in line, and a list of policies it needs to enact in order to please each faction in turn. Liberal-conservatives seem to be the dominant faction at this point, and they have a vested interest in keeping the status quo and maintaining friendly ties with fellow liberal-conservatives across the political aisle.
But there are a lot of other factions nominally aligned with the US Democrats who see nothing of value to gain from this, and would rather the party enact policies more in line with their interests - such as welfare state measures for the Social Democratic wing of the party, LGBTQ-friendly measures, more support for minorities etc. - all of these have to be reconciled with what the liberal-conservative establishment wants, and are often in opposition to that.
Which is why the US Democratic party seems to often look like it stands in opposition with itself - because it fundamentally is in opposition with itself, as different factions within the party vie for prominence and try to get their agenda pushed to the forefront and turned into policy.
Keep in mind that I'm not American, so my observations may be wildly off base, but these are the conclusions I've come to while observing American politics for over two decades at this point.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
As Will Rogers used to say, "I don't belong to any organized party-- I'm a Democrat".
ecco
Veteran Member
I find it interesting that the word "fear" appears in most of those reports. Interesting, but not surprising. The Republican party has been selling fear throughout their modern existence:
Fear of Blacks
Fear of Mexicans
Fear of Marijuana and other drugs
Fear of unwanted pregnancy
Fear of higher taxes
Fear that Grandma will die because Omama lies
Fear that someone will turn their kids into homosexuals
Fear that the covid vaccine contains microchips
Fear that Hillary is running a pedophile ring from the basement of pizza parlor
ecco
Veteran Member
WRONG!
Jesus rose in three days.
Trump will rise in 1 1/2 days.
He can't let Jesus be better or faster.
Well, Democrats (and up here, Liberals) do tend to believe in very real personal freedom -- meaning not bound even to adhere to party lines. That means that they won't always agree with each other, and thus will have to spend a lot more effort looking for common ground than Republicans (Conservatives, here) must do within their own ranks. For conservatives, sharing values is more important.
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
It has nothing to do with that, in my opinion. Even if they had a party line, there would be no mechanism for the party leadership to enforce such a line on their membership; in addition, the US two-party system would render any serious party split a descent into political irrelevancy for one or perhaps even all hypothetical splinter groups.
As I alluded to above, the Republican party can only really get away with it because they are already ideologically united against a common target.