Has "Trumpism" moved beyond Trump to actually trying to destroy the US Democracy?

[Sgt. Pepper]

Oh, come off it. You people really do hate members of minorities who think for themselves. I love when white libs get all patronizing and insulting toward non-white conservatives, nationalists, etc. It shows your true colors. Just want to control us and keep us enslaved to the victimhood narrative.

"You people"? And who is that exactly, if I may ask? I'm part Caucasian myself (and American Indian), and I was a conservative for 26 years. But as a liberal now, I've never behaved towards minority conservatives as you've broad brushed white liberals. As a matter of fact, the majority of anything racist I've witnessed or have personally experienced, came from white conservatives, particularly the ones who fervently fawn over Donald Trump. It was white conservatives who told me that the entire worth of Indians could be found at the bottom of a whiskey bottle. It was white conservatives who called me a 'half-breed,' and told me my Indian blood was dirty. Not only that, but it was white conservative Christians who used to tell me that I had to forsake my Indian heritage if I wanted to be a true Christian. These white conservative Christians told me that I would go to hell if I didn't forsake my Indian heritage. They even questioned whether I was loyal to America, and a true patriot. One of their favorite retorts to say whenever I got upset about their personal attacks against me was, "Calm down! You're going off the reservation!" I have more examples, so I could go on. I've never, ever experienced or witnessed that kind of hateful racist speech from white liberals. Not ever in the 48 years I've been alive.

 

[anna.]

A lot of them don't. There's a lot of pressure to just tow the line. I mean, look at how f1fan just insulted us all. That is very common from lib gatekeepers, black or white.

If you use "black or white" libs you aren't being consistent with your original comment. You said:

"You people [white libs] really do hate members of minorities who think for themselves. "white libs get all patronizing and insulting toward non-white conservatives... Just want to control us and keep us enslaved to the victimhood narrative."

When pointed out to you that following that logic means you're saying non-white libs don't think for themselves, only non-white conservatives do, you try to fix it by lumping black and white libs in together.

Do you think you're insulting him for telling him he "hates members of minorities who think for themselves" (which you've limited to minorities who are conservatives)?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

If you use "black or white" libs you aren't being consistent with your original comment. You said:

"You people [white libs] really do hate members of minorities who think for themselves. "white libs get all patronizing and insulting toward non-white conservatives... Just want to control us and keep us enslaved to the victimhood narrative."

When pointed out to you that following that logic means you're saying non-white libs don't think for themselves, only non-white conservatives do, you try to fix it by lumping black and white libs in together.

Do you think you're insulting him for telling him he "hates members of minorities who think for themselves" (which you've limited to minorities who are conservatives)?

I know you're trying to turn this around on me, but it's not working. I don't play those games. I mentioned black libs (leftists, too) because they also have a tendency to shame and insult black conservatives and right-wingers, calling them slurs like "Uncle Tom", "house ******" and all that. It's just even more hypocritical when the white ones downtalk black right-wingers because of, well, the optics of it. It's like if I, a mixed race working class guy, am shamed or harassed by the upper class white snobs in my area for supporting Trump. Obviously that comes off as looking bad on their part.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

"You people"? And who is that exactly, if I may ask? I'm part Caucasian myself (and American Indian), and I was a conservative for 26 years. But as a liberal now, I've never behaved towards minority conservatives as you've broad brushed white liberals. As a matter of fact, the majority of anything racist I've witnessed or have personally experienced, came from white conservatives, particularly the ones who fervently fawn over Donald Trump. It was white conservatives who told me that the entire worth of Indians could be found at the bottom of a whiskey bottle. It was white conservatives who called me a 'half-breed,' and told me my Indian blood was dirty. Not only that, but it was white conservative Christians who used to tell me that I had to forsake my Indian heritage if I wanted to be a true Christian. These white conservative Christians told me that I would go to hell if I didn't forsake my Indian heritage. They even questioned whether I was loyal to America, and a true patriot. One of their favorite retorts to say whenever I got upset about their personal attacks against me was, "Calm down! You're going off the reservation!" I have more examples, so I could go on. I've never, ever experienced or witnessed that kind of hateful racist speech from white liberals. Not ever in the 48 years I've been alive.

You have your experiences, I have mine. Apparently you're only allowed to generalize and demonize right-wingers and white people in this discussion. But everyone else is an individual and would never act that way.

Oh, and the majority of racism I've gotten in my life was from black people, so you don't want to go there, trying to compare stories.

 

[anna.]

I know you're trying to turn this around on me, but it's not working. I don't play those games. I mentioned black libs (leftists, too) because they also have a tendency to shame and insult black conservatives and right-wingers, calling them slurs like "Uncle Tom", "house ******" and all that. It's just even more hypocritical when the white ones downtalk black right-wingers because of, well, the optics of it.

I'm giving your words back to you, so yeah you might look at it that way.

You didn't mention black libs until you had to explain yourself. You were talking about white libs talking down to black conservatives.

It's like if I, a mixed race working class guy, am shamed or harassed by the upper class white snobs in my area for supporting Trump. Obviously that comes off as looking bad on their part.

Do you think people think less of you because you're mixed race, or because you (publicly, I assume, because how would they know "in your area" unless you flew Trump flags, or wore Trump merch) are a Trump supporter?

I'll tell you right now I don't care what color a person is, if they're a Trump supporter I don't think much of their show-off patriotism or the lies and misinformation they spew.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I'm giving your words back to you, so yeah you might look at it that way.

You didn't mention black libs until you had to explain yourself. You were talking about white libs talking down to black conservatives.





Do you think people think less of you because you're mixed race, or because you (publicly, I assume, because how would they know "in your area" unless you flew Trump flags, or wore Trump merch) are a Trump supporter?

I'll tell you right now I don't care what color a person is, if they're a Trump supporter I don't think much of their show-off patriotism or the lies and misinformation they spew.

No, I just realize that many white progressives and liberals are actually very racist. Like Biden with his "if you don't vote me for me, you ain't black" bs. He would never say that about white people, who are allowed to support whomever they want without their ethnic identity being called into question. It's the patronizing attitude, the coddling and treating us like mindless children that I can find numerous examples of. They do it to LGBT people, as well.

Yes, I hate misinformation and lies. When it comes from Democrats and leftists, too, as well as anyone else.

And I don't wear my MAGA hat or really bring up who I support around here because I don't need the grief. There's a lady at work who also supports Trump and she agrees it's best to keep it to yourself around here in liberal lala land. When I did wear that hat out once, I get plenty of dirty looks from the usual suspects.

 

[anna.]

No, I just realize that many white progressives and liberals are actually very racist.

Do you realize many white Trump supporters and conservatives "are actually very racist"?

Like Biden with his "if you don't vote me for me, you ain't black" bs. He would never say that about white people, who are allowed to support whomever they want without their ethnic identity being called into question. It's the patronizing attitude, the coddling and treating us like mindless children that I can find numerous examples of. They do it to LGBT people, as well.

Yeah well I could give you a whole litany in counter, of what Trump and Trump supporters have said and done that's racist. It won't make any difference though, so why should I bother?

Yes, I hate misinformation and lies. When it comes from Democrats and leftists, too, as well as anyone else.

Did you hate that you were told our elections were fraudulent and that Trump really won, only to find out after much time and money that they weren't and he didn't?

And I don't wear my MAGA hat or really bring up who I support around here because I don't need the grief. There's a lady at work who also supports Trump and she agrees it's best to keep it to yourself around here in liberal lala land. When I did wear that hat out once, I get plenty of dirty looks from the usual suspects.

So how do people "in your area" know you're a Trump supporter? I don't know the affiliation of anyone "in my area" unless they show me. So what did you do to show them, such that you were "shamed or harassed by the upper class white snobs in [your] area?" Wearing a hat once doesn't count, really. You're talking about habitual behavior, not 'once you wore a hat and you got dirty looks.' I guarantee you, regardless of color, you will get dirty looks from people who associate those hats with racism, selfishness, and treason. Like the guy with Trump trump shirt that said "If you don't like Trump, you won't like me," you might consider now that it's about Trumpism and not about your color.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

You have your experiences, I have mine. Apparently you're only allowed to generalize and demonize right-wingers and white people in this discussion. But everyone else is an individual and would never act that way.

Oh, and the majority of racism I've gotten in my life was from black people, so you don't want to go there, trying to compare stories.

Sorry, but you don’t have any idea or right to tell me what I want to discuss with you. You’re also gravely mistaken if you think that I don’t want to hear your stories, or I don’t care. If you feel like sharing your stories, then share away. I will listen to you, and I won’t accuse you of “generalizing and demonizing” liberals and black people, despite the fact that you didn’t show me the same courtesy.

 

[Shaul]

Not me. I live in Canada. We see more clearly from a distance, and he's not much respected here. (I put it mildly, so as not to offend.)

Yes, he is getting rich off you too. By your helping to keep his name in the public eye he wins. How’s it feel knowing you are helping him?

 

[Shaul]

I've been on conservative forums in one way or another for 20 years. I still read conservative news/commentary sites to stay current with their thinking, and to prevent myself from inhabiting one ideological bubble, like I did for many years. I used to be a voting conservative myself.

Are you a Conservative like Romney is a “Conservative”?

So tell us which of these “Conservative” venues are fixated on Hillary Clinton? Don’t be shy, name them.

 

[Kooky]

No, I just realize that many white progressives and liberals are actually very racist. Like Biden with his "if you don't vote me for me, you ain't black" bs. He would never say that about white people, who are allowed to support whomever they want without their ethnic identity being called into question. It's the patronizing attitude, the coddling and treating us like mindless children that I can find numerous examples of. They do it to LGBT people, as well.

I definitely agree with you here. Right-wing xenophobes should be treated like the grown up adults they are, and shouldn't be coddled for choosing to support anti-labor and anti-human rights policies.
They should be treated as the wilful enemies of the working class they are.

The dirty looks you get for exposing your political affiliation is exactly that: People treat you as a grown adult who made their choice in politics, and they will not hesitate to call you out on the free choice you made with deliberate intent.

It seems very much like you want your cake and have it: At once, being treated as a responsible adult whose political affiliation was a rational and deliberate choice on their part, and on the other hand, you don't want people to call you out on the assumption that you chose your affiliation purposefully and with intent, and would rather people coddle you and treat you like a baby whose political actions have no consequences for anybody else.

 

[Kooky]

So tell us which of these “Conservative” venues are fixated on Hillary Clinton? Don’t be shy, name them.

Qanon, Pizzagate, ever heard of those?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yes, he is getting rich off you too. By your helping to keep his name in the public eye he wins. How’s it feel knowing you are helping him?

You are fantasizing in technicolor. We are in a little forum on the internet.

Tell me, what, in your opinion, is the single most wonderful thing about Donald Trump? And if you can remember anything, what would you say might make him at least slightly less than god-like?

 

[Shaul]

You are fantasizing in technicolor. We are in a little forum on the internet.

Tell me, what, in your opinion, is the single most wonderful thing about Donald Trump? And if you can remember anything, what would you say might make him at least slightly less than god-like?

Trump benefits from the total attention he is given. He benefits because people like you talk keep talking about him. You have posted over and over and over again about him. And you didn’t answer the question. How does it feel knowing you are helping him?

I am not the one that keeps bringing his name up. That is you and the other never Trumpers. I have told you many times before, I didn’t even vote for him. YOU are the one fixated with him.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Trump benefits from the total attention he is given. He benefits because people like you talk keep talking about him. You have posted over and over and over again about him. And you didn’t answer the question. How does it feel knowing you are helping him?

I am not the one that keeps bringing his name up. That is you and the other never Trumpers. I have told you many times before, I didn’t even vote for him. YOU are the one fixated with him.

Let me point out one tiny little thing, that seems to have escaped your attention: you cannot bring someone to trial, to account for their actions, without actually identifying them. You know, in court, they say, "please state your name?" That's because they can't try you if they don't know who you are.

And for the record, something you seem unable to conceive of is that I am not an "anti-Trumper" so much as I am an "anti-fraudulent-destroyer-of-the-things-that-make-civilization-possible."

 

[Shaul]

Let me point out one tiny little thing, that seems to have escaped your attention: you cannot bring someone to trial, to account for their actions, without actually identifying them. You know, in court, they say, "please state your name?" That's because they can't try you if they don't know who you are.

And for the record, something you seem unable to conceive of is that I am not an "anti-Trumper" so much as I am an "anti-fraudulent-destroyer-of-the-things-that-make-civilization-possible."

You say you aren’t an anti-Trumper yet you post over and over and over again about him. Never about any other “destroyer-of-the-things-that-make-civilization-possible. Face it. You are fixated.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Yes, he is getting rich off you too. By your helping to keep his name in the public eye he wins. How’s it feel knowing you are helping him?

Are you ridiculing Evangelicalhumanist because you want to control the discussion, or are you trying to silence him? I'm asking you these questions because there's a similar debate tactic I've often seen used by other Trump supporters, and that tactic was unfairly criticizing people for comparing President Biden to Donald Trump. Honestly, any person who stubbornly defended the indefensible behavior of Donald Trump for 5 years doesn't have a moral leg to stand on to judge President Biden for anything he says or does.

 

[Left Coast]

Trump benefits from the total attention he is given. He benefits because people like you talk keep talking about him. You have posted over and over and over again about him. And you didn’t answer the question. How does it feel knowing you are helping him?

I am not the one that keeps bringing his name up. That is you and the other never Trumpers. I have told you many times before, I didn’t even vote for him. YOU are the one fixated with him.

Oh for goodness' sake, stop. The gaslighting here is at inferno level.

Two-thirds of Republicans want Trump to retain major political role; 44% want him to run again in 2024

The reason Trump became a political figure, won the GOP nomination twice, and was elected President is because Republicans voted for him and by and large support him. Not because others notice that the sky is blue and call it out.

 

[Kooky]

You say you aren’t an anti-Trumper yet you post over and over and over again about him. Never about any other “destroyer-of-the-things-that-make-civilization-possible. Face it. You are fixated.

According to your own profile, you've posted nine times in this thread since yesterday.

Can we conclude from this that you're fixated on Trump?

 

[Shaul]

Are you ridiculing Evangelicalhumanist because you want to control the discussion, or are you trying to silence him? I'm asking you these questions because there's a similar debate tactic I've often seen used by other Trump supporters, and that tactic was unfairly criticizing people for comparing President Biden to Donald Trump. Honestly, any person who stubbornly defended the indefensible behavior of Donald Trump for 5 years doesn't have a moral leg to stand on to judge President Biden for anything he says or does.

I’m not ridiculing anybody. EH was the OP. His motivations for posting yet another anti-Trump thread (after so many others) are germane. I am just pointing it out. Any “tactics” used by “other Trump supporters” aren’t my concern since I am not posting as a “Trump supporter”. But nice try to pigeonhole me so you can dismiss me. Want to silence him? Heck no! The more he posts anti-Trump things the more he supports my observation that he is fixated against Trump.