Has "Trumpism" moved beyond Trump to actually trying to destroy the US Democracy?

[Quetzal]

I'm a "Trumpist" and no, I'm not trying to "destroy democracy". We're trying to restore it, so that the voices of the "little people" are heard again. But it's not like the haters actually want to hear from us, they just want to keep screeching at each other in their echo chambers, which RF largely is. There's barely any of us on this board but you guys can't stop talking about us and demonizing us left and right. Whatever.

It's not really about Trump, either. He can easily be thrown overboard if he sells out. He's more of a figurehead.

You are free to leave if you are not enjoying yourself. I highly recommend breaks as necessary. It is good for the soul.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Do you honestly believe that all black and Latino people vote Democrat? They don't. I'm not white, either, obviously. There's many LGBT people who voted for Trump, too. We don't have a hive mind.

I don't know of any "well-off" people who voted for Trump. Where I live, the Trump voters are mostly working class people. The rich urban/surburban white snobs vote Democrat, and are very loud and uppity about it. I'm working class poor. Where I live, the Democrats are the party of the rich. They're gentrifying everything and driving housing costs and costs of living through the roof, like they are doing in all Dem-run cities.

Maybe you should go meet more people.

Where did I say "all?" Don't believe I did. I have LGBT friends who vote conservative, too -- and I have also done that -- so I make no such assumption.

BUT. You should know -- as the Republicans know -- those demographics have routinely voted Democrat over Republican by considerable margins.

So don't try to change the facts that I put forth by trying to change "majority" to "all." It's disingenuous.

 

[Suave]

There are enough Americans to fill those jobs but they are either too lazy or want ridiculous pay.

I remember detasseling corn for five bucks an hour,, which actually was a fairly decent wage 40 years ago, I would be surprise if anybody nowadays would be willing to do that labor intensive task during this coming summer in return for being compensated less than fifteen dollars an hour.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Where did I say "all?" Don't believe I did. I have LGBT friends who vote conservative, too -- and I have also done that -- so I make no such assumption.

BUT. You should know -- as the Republicans know -- those demographics have routinely voted Democrat over Republican by considerable margins.

So don't try to change the facts that I put forth by trying to change "majority" to "all." It's disingenuous.

Yes, the elitist Dems do like to pander to minorities, who they treat as mindless children. Big whoop. Go to any inner city ghetto and see how well black people are doing under Dem leadership. Be careful of the bullets flying around. My Dem-run city is about to cross 200 homicides this year, a record smasher for us, and it's mostly young black people who are the victims.

 

[We Never Know]

I remember detasseling corn for five bucks an hour,, which actually was a fairly decent wage 40 years ago, I would be surprise if anybody nowadays would be willing to do that labor intensive task during this coming summer in return for being compensated less than fifteen dollars an hour.

At $5 an hour 40 years ago it was a decent wage being the minimum wage 40 years ago was only $3.35

 

[Suave]

Yes, the Dems do like to pander to minorities, who they treat as mindless children. Big whoop. Go to any inner city ghetto and see how well black people are doing under Dem leadership. Be careful of the bullets flying around.

My brother door dashes to underserved communities around Chi-town, I go along packing heat being my bro's armed escort. You might be happy to know, nobody so far has dared trying to rob, stab or shoot us.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

My brother door dashes to underserved communities around Chi-town, I go along packing heat being my bro's armed escort. You might be happy to know, nobody so far has dared trying to rob, stab or shoot us.

That's good to hear. Be careful.

 

[F1fan]

I think it primarily started once corporations were declared as legal people and allowed to contribute and lobby politically to their favorite party canadates.

No it was pretty much a deliberate decision made by Gingrich. There are plenty of video clips of Gingrich doing much of what is common today, and that is NO cooperation with anything democrats want to do.

 

[F1fan]

There are enough Americans to fill those jobs but they are either too lazy or want ridiculous pay.

Ridiculous pay = living wage. The USA is way behind the average pay of other first world nations. With the decline of unions it's good workers are able to demand more pay for the work.

 

[F1fan]

That's bs. There's hundreds of millions of American citizens.

The problem is that we're all being pushed to the cities and the rural areas are left to rot.

Well there is no deliberate "pushing". It's just that the standard of living in remote America isn't very good for a modern world. There is a lot of open land out there between cities.

 

[Heyo]

No. I'm never going to agree with you on that, so you may as well give up trying. American jobs for American workers.

Please let us realize nearly half of American farm workers are non citizen migrant workers, there are not enough American citizens to fill those jobs. Without these non citizen migrant workers, there'd be plenty of food supply shortages and rampant starvation of Americans.

And why is that so? Because the immigration policies of the US are FUBAR since forever.
The dems pretend to care about immigrants. But have they ever done something substantial for them when they could? Immigrant's rights are a beautiful talking point in campaigns. Let's not ruin that by solving it.
The pubs pretend to care about getting rid of undocumented immigrants. But have they ever done something substantial to get rid of them when they could? (Except from Trump's wall, which wouldn't have worked anyway and Trump didn't understand the system.) Aside from being a nice talking point for their base (which you don't ruin by solving the problem) the undocumented are right-less, cheap labourer (much like slaves). Really getting rid of them is not in the interest of big farming and so not in the interest of the GOP.
As long as dems or pubs are ruling, nothing will be done about immigrants either way. The system works as intended.

 

[Twilight Hue]

No it was pretty much a deliberate decision made by Gingrich. There are plenty of video clips of Gingrich doing much of what is common today, and that is NO cooperation with anything democrats want to do.

With union backing on Biden's part, it seem a hard defense when it's easy to notice all the special interest and lobbying running rampant throughout the political process.

 

[PureX]

The movement toward corporate fascism and the destruction of democracy was never Trump's movement to begin with. He was just a convenient mascot for the greed and animosity and stupidity that the corporate fascists needed to publicly celebrate and legitimize to further their cause.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Makes it convenient though for each side to point to the evils of the other party.
At least FOX and MSNBC have ready audiences to cater to.

The willingness of humans to divide into opposing camps, each demonising and accusing the other, is an old story, and it never ends well.

Not so long ago, a Prime Minister of the UK - one John Major - told his audience that "We need to understand a little less, and condemn a little more." Seldom, imo, has any democratic politician been more utterly wrong about anything (and everything). Nonetheless, his asinine statement was remarkably prescient.

 

[F1fan]

With union backing on Biden's part, it seem a hard defense when it's easy to notice all the special interest and lobbying running rampant throughout the political process.

Then congress as a whole should work to limit lobbyists and excessive fund raising. The dilemma is that congress won't vote to limit their own ability to raise money, or term limits, or anything else the people want.

 

[F1fan]

And why is that so? Because the immigration policies of the US are FUBAR since forever.
The dems pretend to care about immigrants. But have they ever done something substantial for them when they could? Immigrant's rights are a beautiful talking point in campaigns. Let's not ruin that by solving it.

Well in case you haven't noticed the Republicans tend not to support anything the Democrats propose, and the Senate, with it's 60 vote requirement, is going to kill any policy. Republicans and trump had several years to put some reform together and had no interest. If you are going to press Democrats to do something you need to press them to eliminate the filibuster, and the 60 vote requirement, first.

There are many people of color in color on the Democrat side, and they bring a lot of specific policy ideas to the table. Republicans? Mostly white men.

The pubs pretend to care about getting rid of undocumented immigrants. But have they ever done something substantial to get rid of them when they could? (Except from Trump's wall, which wouldn't have worked anyway and Trump didn't understand the system.) Aside from being a nice talking point for their base (which you don't ruin by solving the problem) the undocumented are right-less, cheap labourer (much like slaves). Really getting rid of them is not in the interest of big farming and so not in the interest of the GOP.
As long as dems or pubs are ruling, nothing will be done about immigrants either way. The system works as intended.

Right, republicans know we need the cheap labor, but also want migrants as an easy punching bag as a threat to "proper white Americans".

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Yes, the Republicans are trying to undo democracy, because they can't compete if elections are fair and all eligible voters have unimpeded access to voting. And I expect them to succeed with the help of unwitting, disaffected Judas goats unaware that they're slated for slaughter as well. Much of the country is easily influenced by indoctrination media, and can be convinced to vote for Republicans by some false narrative identifying and demonizing an assortment of imagined enemies such as libs, immigrants, elites, antifa, etc., never noticing that their actual enemies are the people they trust.

America will continue to resemble a democracy superficially, but the voters won't be making decisions except at local levels. Their voting won't determine who is announced as the winner, but it will appear that they have a say to keep them believing that they do. The intention is to capture the government and the middle class, and put them both to work for profiteers, keeping the workers relatively poor and dependent on jobs that pay them too little.

This is the intent behind keeping minimum wage low, fighting unions, and erosion of the social safety net, while using the treasury as their private ATM and despoiling the earth, all in the name of increased profits as they always have. They will oppose climate change mitigation as they always have. They will oppose any public spending that helps ordinary people. Any doubt? What do we think Trump's response to the recent tornadoes would have been? The same as Rand Paul's whenever it isn't his state and his reelection isn't on the line (look how quickly he became a "socialist"). Worse if Kentucky were a blue state.

Look at the effect the media had on Biden's ratings. In a year when he inherited multiple disasters (pandemic, economic problems, border problems, withdrawal from Afghanistan problems) and still managed to give them economic relief, a successful vaccine rollout, a return to the Paris Accords, reversal of multiple dangerous environmental deregulations, ended a war, has delivered an infrastructure package that Trump and the Republicans gave lip service to for years, and is poised to improve on that. You really can't do more or better than that, yet Biden's approval rating still fell even among people who voted for him.

How did that happen? It's not all Fox News. The so-called liberal media are also pessimistic about the Democrats. CNN has done more damage to the Democratic party than Fox, because the left doesn't listen to Fox or trust it. They do, however listen to CNN, where the narrative is extremely poor for Democrats - they're in chaos, they don't know what the people want or need, etc.. Isn't this a description of the Republicans? The Democrats know exactly what the people need and are giving it to them, but until recently, we have been hearing this same narrative of failure even from CNN and MSNBC about are supply chain problems, inflation, the price of gas, and the like, all blamed on Biden and the Democrats.

Where was the reporting on the Republicans, how many are being investigated, how they have no ideas, how they devour one another when one of them is out of step like Cheney, how they have nothing to say about all of the criminality in the house, how they deny the insurrection. These things may get a single mention on CNN, but not the continual negative narrative as with the Democrats.

Now that the January 6th Committee has been gaining a little momentum, the talk is turning to Republican scandals. And not unsurprisingly, as the narrative has switched, Biden's approval numbers are rising.

If one looks at this graphic (link below), he sees Biden's approval rating steadily declining all year until just recently, when there is an uptick. Admittedly, it's a small a piece of the curve turning up, but I'm pretty sure that his numbers will improve for as long as the media depict the Republicans in a bad light simply by reporting the news even without editorializing, and that when this is no longer a ratings-friendly narrative, will return to the one of the feckless Democrats, Biden's numbers will fall, and the American people will become convinced again that the Democrats are more or less what we're reading about them from Republican voters on this thread.

How Popular Is Joe Biden?

So I think that the trajectory for America is fairly predictable. They'll give the government back to the Republicans, and unless the Democrats can shore up voting rights at the federal level before that happens, they'll likely be prevented from regaining power indefinitely, as the country continues morphing into a machine built to serve the actual elites. And most people will continue not noticing that their democracy is evaporating away or who their actual enemy is, will go on blaming whoever the news tells them to hate instead, and go on waving flags while continuing to think that they live in the greatest country in the world as they slip further into third-world status and see economic opportunity and the middle class disappearing. Biden is trying to prevent and even reverse this, but he'll have trouble doing it with half of the country and one party opposing him, and then giving the government back to that party.

 

[ecco]

Trump booed at Alabama rally after telling supporters to get vaccinated

Thanks for the link.


Whodathunkit?

Really remarkable!

I guess the "Some boos rang out from the crowd, who were largely maskless." ensured that he never again recommended getting vaccinated.

 

[ecco]

I'm a "Trumpist" and no, I'm not trying to "destroy democracy". We're trying to restore it, so that the voices of the "little people" are heard again.

So, you believe that spreading lies about the election votes of the people is restoring democracy.
So, you believe that encouraging Governors, Senators, Representatives to ignore the vote of the people is restoring democracy.
So, you believe that invading the Capitol and intimidating elected officials is restoring democracy.
So, you believe that ignoring the Constitution is restoring democracy.

Your view of "democracy" is most strange.

But it's not like the haters actually want to hear from us, they just want to keep screeching at each other in their echo chambers, which RF largely is.

Some of us do want to hear from you. Some of us think it is important to try to understand the mindset of people who like to thinkof themselves as "patriots" while they try to subvert the Constitution.

There's barely any of us on this board but you guys can't stop talking about us and demonizing us left and right. Whatever.

There are plenty of posts by people who share your views. That's why there are plenty of responses.

Perhaps you would be happier on a "Trump Sheeples Only" forum.

It's not really about Trump, either. He can easily be thrown overboard if he sells out. He's more of a figurehead.

That's an interesting comment. Sells out to who?

It's also a nonsensical comment. Who would throw Trump overboard? Jim Jordan? Ted Cruz? Marjorie Taylor Greene? Greg Abbot?

 

[PureX]

Then congress as a whole should work to limit lobbyists and excessive fund raising. The dilemma is that congress won't vote to limit their own ability to raise money, or term limits, or anything else the people want.

The dilemma is that we keep re-electing them. We could end all this idiocy in just a couple elections cycles if we would collectively vote out every incumbent in every election regardless of party unless and until they ACT to end the wholesale corruption of the legislature via legalized bribery.

Seriously. Once they realize they cannot keep their positions of power unless they clean up their act, they will clean up their act. Because most of them will do ANYTHING to keep their power. Even do their jobs if it comes to it.