• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Have any of you heard of this lineage/Sampraday?

StarryNightshade

Spiritually confused Jew
Premium Member
Devi Mandir

I was at UU today and, along with myself, there is another member who identifies as Hindu. I asked him what sampraday he belongs to and he pointed me to the above website.

From what I can understand, it is either affiliated with or branched from the Ramakrishna mission. It currently has two living gurus and it's lineage includes Shiva, Adi Shankara, Shirdi Sai Baba, and Sir John Woodroffe. It is neither Dvaita or Adviata (I think it's somewhere in the middle) and it centers primarily around Shiva, Ganesha, and Goddess Bhakti.

I've been looking for a Sampraday to call home and, so far, this one seems wonderful. However, is it too good to be true? Could it simply be New Age practice disguised as Hinduism? Or worse, it's gurus be wolves in sheeps clothing?
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
Devi Mandir

I was at UU today and, along with myself, there is another member who identifies as Hindu. I asked him what sampraday he belongs to and he pointed me to the above website.

From what I can understand, it is either affiliated with or branched from the Ramakrishna mission. It currently has two living gurus and it's lineage includes Shiva, Adi Shankara, Shirdi Sai Baba, and Sir John Woodroffe. It is neither Dvaita or Adviata (I think it's somewhere in the middle) and it centers primarily around Shiva, Ganesha, and Goddess Bhakti.

I've been looking for a Sampraday to call home and, so far, this one seems wonderful. However, is it too good to be true? Could it simply be New Age practice disguised as Hinduism? Or worse, it's gurus be wolves in sheeps clothing?

This is the first I am hearing about them.

On a side note ... you are a part of UU? UU or Hindu ? I'm confused.
 
Last edited:

StarryNightshade

Spiritually confused Jew
Premium Member
On a side note ... you are a part of UU? UU or Hindu ? I'm confused.

I consider myself both.

Religiously, I'm 100% Hindu, but I also affiliate with and attend a Unitarian Universalist church. Simply because I view UU more like a community where anyone (regardless of ones spirituality) can come together to congregate. Basically, if one strives for social justice, human rights, and religious pluralism, then one can be a UU.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Starry, I explored the website, and couldn't really figure the tradition. I'd have to go to a temple and feel it, I think. But it looked pretty legit, and didn't have a lot of outrageous claims like some sites. Maybe you can go check it out for us.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Some unnecessary additions I see, but it wouldn't be the end of the world if that happens one day of the year. Some other so-called 'lineages' have that aspect as their focus.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Yeah, you're right. Same old, same old. My apologies.

The other things I noticed was the Gurus were no longer alive, and there were several, all from different lineages. In most sampradayas, the ordination is done in person from a living master to a qualified sishya. You don't just say, "I'm a follower of __________ ." It's really the Guru who says, "You're my devotee." not the other way around.

But anyone is free to do whatever they want in regards to how they interpret, what various religions to involve in it, etc. It obviously works for some people, so have at it.
 
Last edited:

StarryNightshade

Spiritually confused Jew
Premium Member
Thanks for the responses Poeticus and Vinayaka.

It's gotten to the point where I think settling on a Sampraday (or at least a specific philosophy) has come, but the temple I go to is so generalized that there is no one philosophy or school represented. After looking more into the sampraday that my friend showed me, while it looks great on the outside, I don't know if it would ultimately be for me. It seems very catered-for-an-obviously-western-audience kind of school. Not that it's a bad thing, but it's not what I'm really looking for.

Here's what a year of practice has led me to finding what I feel most at "home" with:

- A Shiva, Ganesha, and Murugan centered practice.

- With MahaDevi (and her many forms) also included. Kind of like Yin and Yang balance.

- Contemplation, Mysticism, and intellectual study of history, culture, and scripture

- Perhaps elements of normative Tantra?

- Ideally Vishishtadvaitan, as that is what I believe the nature of Brahman to be. Or at least an A/Dvaita philosophy that is open to Vishishtadvaita.

- Although I never reveal my private life to anyone, a school that would be at least neutral to non-heterosexuality (I really don't care if anyone at temple supports my sexuality). One of the things I just learned from my friend is that his Sampraday is not gay friendly.


Perhaps I'm over-thinking or asking for too much?
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Thanks for the responses Poeticus and Vinayaka.

- A Shiva, Ganesha, and Murugan centered practice.

That would be me. :)

Yes, I'd be asking about tolerance of sexuality too. I'm as hetero as they come, but there is a huge need to be tolerant. I know of no individuals in my own sampradaya who are 'out', but I do have my suspicions on a few people, not that that matters in the least. And that's how we view it ... as personal and none of anybody's business. :)
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I accept advaita or dvaita and things in between, but I am an orthodox Hindu. Cut-off date for Acharyas for me is 1307 AD, grudgingly extended to 1534 AD. I do not accept neo-Hinduism, and attempts to mix up other religions with Hinduism.
 

StarryNightshade

Spiritually confused Jew
Premium Member
I accept advaita or dvaita and things in between, but I am an orthodox Hindu. Cut-off date for Acharyas for me is 1307 AD, grudgingly extended to 1534 AD. I do not accept neo-Hinduism, and attempts to mix up other religions with Hinduism.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with "Neo-Hinduism". Whatever works for the devotee works, but I think it should be understood that it's not a traditional school; nor does it necessarily have a connection to one.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Namaste

Actually, I know quite a bit about them, but it would be inaccurate to link the Swami who is an American, and Sree Maa who is from Assam to some of the traditions mentioned in this thread.

Sometime in the late 70s or early 80s perhaps I recall visiting their Mandir on occasion, it was in the San Francisco Bay Area, I recall driving up a rather steep drive in an upper class area of either Moraga or Orinda in California. The house which was the mandir was in a very nice location, inside on the temple altar were a large number of Devi murtis, six primary ones as I recall with Kali, Saraswati and Lakshmi as focus, they appeared to me to be made out of some paper mache like material (though I am not 100 percent sure of the material but it wasn't metal, nor clay as used during Durga Puja Festival), probably six to eight such murtis some about 4 feet tall and brighly painted with gouche type paint. They were Chandi centric, Devi centric.

They later moved to a small building in Martinez California. I had lost track of them after they left the former site, I had visited their temple infrequently. But then one day I was in a shopping mall sitting in a rest area when a man older than me plopped down next to me specifically to chat. He knew I was a Hindu (it was my Indian style shirt and simple sandals I was wearing), and he earnestly wanted to befriend me. He invited me to the Devi Mandir in Martinez. I am a temple touring fan, I gave him my phone number since he was going to meet me there and "introduce me to the Swami", but his feelings were hurt when I didn't show up. I felt bad when he called me up, so I agreed to go visit at his home address, then he took me to the temple.

I was surprised to realize this was the same mandir as at the original location, the Swami spoke with me and my host, then there was a puja and me and the host were the only guests on an evening work night. Later, I visited a few more times including later with my wife. I got to know the Swami but to a lesser extent Sree Maa (who I think was his wife or someone he followed, frankly I never asked him). But then they closed down that location and moved yet again to Napa California. I visted that location in Napa only a couple of times with my wife.

Many years later, in fact it might have been a decade later or more, just 2 years ago I made my first journey into "internet Hinduism" on a Hindu forum before I joined this forum. A member joined that forum, a young man with black hair and glasses (I will explain how I knew this in a minute but oddly I cannot remember his name anymore), and he was an ardent (but perhaps newbie) advocate of the Devi Mandir, the Swami and "Maa". He started to ask me to visit their website and join in on "onlibe live satsang with the Swami". I said I would check it out.

But when I created a member id and signed in for the online "class" and interactive discussion with the Swami, though my member name would display during the live session, and though I could see IMs, the "video" (some sort of webcam pointing to the Swami and altar) along with the audio would not work. I could see nothing, nor hear nothing, but IMs kept popping up welcoming me from the young new and ardent follower (his personal picture was his avatar) and one other person. They apparently thought I was fully online, but their technology wasn't working. It sort of turned into a disaster of sorts, apparently while I was replying "I cannot see anything, the video or audio isn't working" I didn't realize I was sending these to the Swami as "questions". Anyway I finally just closed the webpage.

I apologized to the boy later via an IM on the other forum, trying to explain that the video would not work. He suggested some "fix" but the exact same thing happened again about a week later. To make a long story short, I figured out that these sessions would not work on Microsoft Windows (the newer version I was using), but only a Mac, and there were no drivers to make it work on Windows.

So I gave up. But I mentioned to the boy I might visit the Napa location in the summer (but I never did).

Then about a few weeks later, I tried from someone elses computer, a Mac. It worked, and I asked a question to the Swami under my member name, I don't recall the exact question but the lecture before the Q&A was about Jyana Yoga and moksha, so I asked to the effect "Can't someone also achieve moksha by Bhakti Yoga?"...

I am not sure what set off the reaction, but it appeared this got the Swami a bit angry at me and he shouted at me "No!" and something other, then he repeated my member name as if he knew me but was not happy... hmmm... I suppose if he realized who I actually was from the past, it might have benn different. I tried one more time about a week later and asked about caste, but no answer was provided in response and the next time I checked out the website the entire format of Q & A was shutdown.

The Swami is an American who started roaming about India during the 1960s. He would apparently associate with Sadhus, often in the hilly areas. He might have been involved in Tantrika, but then he found the "Chandi Path" and some aspects of the Devi aligned with some Sadhus who would engage in tapas and such. He later met with "Maa" who is from Assam and who represents Devi within this mandir, he never would mention who his guru was but apparently he was initiated by Swami Amritananda Saraswati, and a lineage of the Dashnami Order.

The American Swami is a very nice Swami, if one has a chance to visit Napa they should stop by.

Om Namah Sivaya
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
Why do today's Swamis have to have a 'maa'? There are many like that.

I'm sure you are familiar with the Devi-scandals of the 90s and early 2000s ... self-identified sAdhu-s would make up new Devi-s, Devi-s that had no kula nor shAstric foundation. It was all scam-related.
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
I accept advaita or dvaita and things in between, but I am an orthodox Hindu. Cut-off date for Acharyas for me is 1307 AD, grudgingly extended to 1534 AD. I do not accept neo-Hinduism, and attempts to mix up other religions with Hinduism.

You are more lenient than me. My cutoff date is around 100 BCE.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Thank you, Shivafan. That helped a lot. Personal experience is 10 times better than just reading about.
 

StarryNightshade

Spiritually confused Jew
Premium Member
I accept advaita or dvaita and things in between, but I am an orthodox Hindu. Cut-off date for Acharyas for me is 1307 AD, grudgingly extended to 1534 AD. I do not accept neo-Hinduism, and attempts to mix up other religions with Hinduism.

You are more lenient than me. My cutoff date is around 100 BCE.

These comments kinda remind of the various "Folk Hinduism" threads and comments in this DIR. How, even though they may not be mentioned in the Vedas, Puranas, Agamas, or any other scripture, the hundreds of thousands of tribal and regional deities are every bit as much a part of Hinduism as the big name Devas.

You two may not accept certain Sampradays, Acharayas, or philosophies beyond certain dates, but what you may think on that matter isn't very relevant. While there are some schools which are nothing but New Age fluff in the guise of Hinduism, or some schools which could still be heretical to more traditional hindus, it is still a part of the Santana Dharma. Whether one really cares for it or not.

I may not wish to be involved with the Sampraday that my friend pointed me to, but that doesn't mean it might be less "Hindu" than more traditional schools.
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
These comments kinda remind of the various "Folk Hinduism" threads and comments in this DIR. How, even though they may not be mentioned in the Vedas, Puranas, Agamas, or any other scripture, the hundreds of thousands of tribal and regional deities are every bit as much a part of Hinduism as the big name Devas.

You two may not accept certain Sampradays, Acharayas, or philosophies beyond certain dates, but what you may think on that matter isn't very relevant. While there are some schools which are nothing but New Age fluff in the guise of Hinduism, or some schools which could still be heretical to more traditional hindus, it is still a part of the Santana Dharma. Whether one really cares for it or not.

I may not wish to be involved with the Sampraday that my friend pointed me to, but that doesn't mean it might be less "Hindu" than more traditional schools.

Starry, it's not about relevancy or not. It's clearly about the concept of adhikAra. Plus, Aup and I weren't Hindus for three months and then something else, and then something else, and back to being Hindus. This isn't something we sit around and "seek" about, trying to figure out which sampradAya we can be a part of due to some longing (a non-Dharmic action in and of itself). We are born-Hindus. Samskara-s while being in our Mother's wombs to nAma & chuDAkaraNa ... till antyeSti.
 

StarryNightshade

Spiritually confused Jew
Premium Member
Starry, it's not about relevancy or not. It's clearly about the concept of adhikAra. Plus, Aup and I weren't Hindus for three months and then something else, and then something else, and back to being Hindus. This isn't something we sit around and "seek" about, trying to figure out which sampradAya we can be a part of due to some longing (a non-Dharmic action in and of itself). We are born-Hindus. Samskara-s while being in our Mother's wombs to nAma & chuDAkaraNa ... till antyeSti.

I see.

Thanks for the response, but please keep the condescension to a minimum. I don't see how figuring out ones path is a negative thing, or that longing for a community or a more solidified philosophy is "adharmic".
 
Top