Have We Surrendered to Thieves, Mobs & Shoplifters?

[jbg]

Nordstrom LA Under attack! (link)
Target Store in NYC to close (link)
Nordstrom in Seattle and two in SFO to close (link)

One would expect business interests to fight back. Why are they hanging back? Don't they depend upon the rule of law for their existence? There was no resistance to "bail reform." There has been no insistence that prosecutors and judges do their jobs. Or have we just given up as a society?

 

[Orbit]

Nordstrom LA Under attack! (link)
Target Store in NYC to close (link)
Nordstrom in Seattle and two in SFO to close (link)

One would expect business interests to fight back. Why are they hanging back? Don't they depend upon the rule of law for their existence? There was no resistance to "bail reform." There has been no insistence that prosecutors and judges do their jobs. Or have we just given up as a society?

Well, if you can call this "fighting back".... O'Reilly Auto Parts worker charged in strangulation death of suspected shoplifter

 

[jbg]

Well, if you can call this "fighting back".... O'Reilly Auto Parts worker charged in strangulation death of suspected shoplifter

Shoplifting should be a hazardous occupation. No one promised that the worst that would happen would be a lecture from a liberal judge and non-adversarial prosecutor.

 

[Orbit]

Shoplifting should be a hazardous occupation. No one promised that the worst that would happen would be a lecture from a liberal judge and non-adversarial prosecutor.

On a serious note, though, I think increased shoplifting is the sign of an economy that isn't providing opportunities for people to earn a living wage, with the lack of a social safety net making people increasingly desperate. That's a general statement, and I'm sure there are individual cases that refute it, but it is something to consider.

 

[Jimmy]

Store security is told to not engage so they don’t get hurt

 

[McBell]

Nordstrom LA Under attack! (link)
Target Store in NYC to close (link)
Nordstrom in Seattle and two in SFO to close (link)

One would expect business interests to fight back. Why are they hanging back? Don't they depend upon the rule of law for their existence? There was no resistance to "bail reform." There has been no insistence that prosecutors and judges do their jobs. Or have we just given up as a society?

What do you propose they do?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I don't really have any sympathy for big box companies who more than make up for any conceivable losses with massive amounts of corporate welfare.
And currently they're smart enough to know, especially in this climate, that if they start asking employees to endanger themselves by going after shoplifters, nobody will work for their measly pay.

But I do have sympathy for smaller businesses caught in the crossfire. But rather than the ineffective and inhumane retribution justice in this country I'd much prefer addressing rampant and increasing poverty. The mother of crime.

 

[Valjean]

Nordstrom LA Under attack! (link)
Target Store in NYC to close (link)
Nordstrom in Seattle and two in SFO to close (link)

One would expect business interests to fight back. Why are they hanging back? Don't they depend upon the rule of law for their existence? There was no resistance to "bail reform." There has been no insistence that prosecutors and judges do their jobs. Or have we just given up as a society?

How do you recommend they fight back, just out of curiosity?

What does bail reform have to do with this? Are you just speculating, or do you have some hard data?
What is "the job" of prosecutors and judges, that you believe they're neglecting?

Me, I'd recommend researching the causes of these crimes, rather than railing against the justice department.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Nordstrom LA Under attack! (link)
Target Store in NYC to close (link)
Nordstrom in Seattle and two in SFO to close (link)

One would expect business interests to fight back. Why are they hanging back? Don't they depend upon the rule of law for their existence? There was no resistance to "bail reform." There has been no insistence that prosecutors and judges do their jobs. Or have we just given up as a society?

It's a further sign we are increasingly becoming a desperate third world nation.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Me, I'd recommend researching the causes of these crimes, rather than railing against the justice department.

I am not really sure that America wants to research the causes. These are crimes occurring in the most openly religious country in the first world. Sadly, along with the fact that this most openly religious country's biggest cause of child death is firearms -- outpacing all other nations by a factor of 10 times!

America's economy is going brilliantly -- but far, far too much of the wealth created is skimmed off the top by a tiny minorty, leaving whatever's left over to be shared by everybody else. Religious fervour -- far too often -- seems to lead to violence rather than love. The nation itself is getting closer and closer to jettisoning its democracy in favour of an autocracy. The hatreds between left and right, rich and poor, whites and (pretty much) everybody else, seem to be making everybody crankier and crankier.

What has happened to the nation? That's what I'd like to understand.

 

[F1fan]

These mobs are well organized, and from what I see it looks to be like those bad Tik Tok challenges that we used to hear about. I suspect many kids are bored and lack good challlengs in life that develop character. I think as long as social media allows secure communication these kinds of organized crime spees will happen among the young. Young people seem to be dealing with certain freedoms that people older than 40 never had to, but aren't well prepared to manage their own behavior. So why are kids acting with fewer manners and criminal acts, and expect to get away with it? Maybe look at some adults being covered in the media for their criminal activity and expecting to get away with it. That's our society.

 

[Subduction Zone]

This sort of criminal behavior is worrisome to me due to the possible political results. The Republicans have a simple "lock 'em up" mentality that gives a temporary reprieve but not a long term fix. And with this sort of crime that is highly publicized the population as a whole may end up supporting those short term solutions.

Let's lock everyone up and it will be just like the Andy Griffith show again. That really does not work.

 

[sun rise]

There's a societal problem but some businesses are managing to deal with the problem. How Tractor Supply managed to shrink theft rates when they're surging almost everywhere else and https://www.thestreet.com/retailers/lowes-has-an-answer-for-target-and-walmarts-theft-problems From the Lowes reference:

"Having spent my entire adult life in retail, at every level, the one thing that I understand clearly is that the greatest deterrent for any theft activity is effective customer service and making sure that you have the right type of merchandising display,"
...
While Lowe's uses technology to prevent theft, Ellison made clear that having people on its store floors helping customers leads to less theft.
...
Simply paying workers well -- Lowe's is a the higher end of the wage scale for retailers in many markets -- and training them leads to lower levels of shrink, according to Ellison. Fewer people trying to steal also enable the company's security team to operate more efficiently.
...
"We have a dedicated asset-protection team that I think is best-in-class in retail," Ellison said. "They have great partnerships with law-enforcement communities and the like. And we spend a lot of time on associate training."

 

[Revoltingest]

How do you recommend they fight back, just out of curiosity?

There is no fighting back.
Only coping.
Options...
- Leave areas with the problem.
- Keep spendy items locked up.
- Increase surveillance, so the perps can be identified & prosecuted.
- Raise prices.

 

[jbg]

On a serious note, though, I think increased shoplifting is the sign of an economy that isn't providing opportunities for people to earn a living wage, with the lack of a social safety net making people increasingly desperate. That's a general statement, and I'm sure there are individual cases that refute it, but it is something to consider.

If someone gets an entry level job they make maybe $15 an hour. A one-minute shoplift can net $300 easy. That's 20 hours of honest work. The penalty used to be jail or a criminal record. Now it's a 20 minute booking and release.

 

[jbg]

Store security is told to not engage so they don’t get hurt

In 1975 I worked for a week as temporary Christmas help at Macy's in White Plains. One snowy night I was threatened by someone. I gave the thug $10 out of my wallet and reported the incident. Rather than walky-talky the door guards, I was fired.

 

[F1fan]

If someone gets an entry level job they make maybe $15 an hour. A one-minute shoplift can net $300 easy. That's 20 hours of honest work. The penalty used to be jail or a criminal record. Now it's a 20 minute booking and release.

Are both of these first hand experience?

 

[Unfettered]

What has happened to the nation? That's what I'd like to understand.

To the extent that the US government has been transformed into a service provider rather than of an administrator of justice, social discord has increased (though there is always some lag).

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Nordstrom LA Under attack! (link)
Target Store in NYC to close (link)
Nordstrom in Seattle and two in SFO to close (link)

One would expect business interests to fight back. Why are they hanging back? Don't they depend upon the rule of law for their existence? There was no resistance to "bail reform." There has been no insistence that prosecutors and judges do their jobs. Or have we just given up as a society?

Personally, I think that once the authorities find the perpetrators, they should tie them to posts & whip them, in public!

I remember several years ago, an American boy was caught vandalizing cars in Singapore, and that’s what the authorities did: they caned him in public!

I bet he never did that again!

 

[mangalavara]

Personally, I think that once the authorities find the perpetrators, they should tie them to posts & whip them, in public!

I agree with this type of punishment to the extent that it does not result in the person being covered in blood, unrecognizable, half-dead, that sort of thing.

I remember several years ago, an American boy was caught vandalizing cars in Singapore, and that’s what the authorities did: they caned him in public!

He got what he deserved.

I bet he never did that again!

Hopefully he learned two valuable lessons: (1) respect the property of other people, and (2) you don’t have immunity from another country’s legal system while you are in that country.

All in all, I suspect that caning works best in cultures where people have ‘face.’ In those types of cultures, people treat others with respect and want to have a good status. Caning as a punishment is not just about pain but also humiliation. Being publicly humiliated means losing face in the society. Unfortunately, far too many people, it seems, in American society are shameless and have an ‘I don’t care’ attitude.