Health Service Rankings

[Secret Chief]

Two threads for the price of one:

1.
"The NHS has lost its prestigious ranking as the best health system in a study of 11 rich countries by an influential US thinktank."

2.
"The US had by far the worst-rated system, despite spending the most on care."

- NHS drops from first to fourth among rich countries’ healthcare systems

Have at it.

 

[Martin]

10 years of austerity is basically why the NHS is struggling. They're also running at about a 10% staff vacancy rate.
I worked for the NHS in the 2000s, things were very different back then.

 

[sun rise]

"The US had by far the worst-rated system, despite spending the most on care."

And those that get rich on the suffering of others in alliance with those who label any attempt to fix the system as (ugh) socialists, fight terrible battles to keep the US worst so they can profit and maintain political correctness.

 

[ChristineM]

Its no more than expected given the devastating funding cuts and selling off of profitable departments leaving the rest to do what they can with meagre funding.

I've personally seen the decimation thats hit the mental health services. I have little doubt other NHS departments are feeling it as well

I am surprised it managed fourth place

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Two threads for the price of one:

1.
"The NHS has lost its prestigious ranking as the best health system in a study of 11 rich countries by an influential US thinktank."

2.
"The US had by far the worst-rated system, despite spending the most on care."

- NHS drops from first to fourth among rich countries’ healthcare systems

Have at it.

the results speak for themselves

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Its no more than expected given the devastating funding cuts and selling off of profitable departments leaving the rest to do what they can with meagre funding.

I've personally seen the decimation thats hit the mental health services. I have little doubt other NHS departments are feeling it as well

I am surprised it managed fourth place

Can only speak for Australia, but we have issues in mental health services here as well.
I think you'd find ALL the countries listed are having some broadly similar issues in terms of aging populations, COVID-related issues, etc.

So, in relative terms it might mean that issues are hitting some countries harder, but all countries are taking a hit (I'm guessing).

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I don't understand why the combination of massive spending and underservicing isn't the single biggest issue dominating US politics for the last decade.

 

[MikeF]

I don't understand why the combination of massive spending and underservicing isn't the single biggest issue dominating US politics for the last decade.

As I noted in other thread, what percentage of healthcare costs for the countries listed goes to research and development. The other issue, somewhat related, is cost of medication in the US. US pays full retail while other nations have negotiated discounts. Are countries other than the US sharing in the full cost of development of pharmaceuticals?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

As I noted in other thread, what percentage of healthcare costs for the countries listed goes to research and development. The other issue, somewhat related, is cost of medication in the US. US pays full retail while other nations have negotiated discounts. Are countries other than the US sharing in the full cost of development of pharmaceuticals?

You're assuming the reason for US costs being so high is R&D, and then asking me to prove it's not.
US market share of R&D spending in health is dropping pretty consistently, whilst still leaving them leaders. In your estimation, shouldn't this have a relative impact on affordability? And yet revenue per dollar spend on R&D sits at just over 700% in the US. Don't you think an unregulated market may be contributing to this?

It's a tricky topic, and I don't mean to sound like I'm tossing out your thoughts here. I suspect elements of what you say does contribute. But I remain mystified why this isn't a larger discussion point in the US, and why the belief that 'other countries aren't paying their share' is actually viewed as a way to close out the discussion.

I wish China paid more for Australian metal. It would boost our national economy. Although it would also drive up inflation. Ultimately, though, the price China pays for our minerals, and the long term viability of the market are key discussion points here, alongside the recognition that there are only certain things we can control. I would hazard a guess that there is plenty the US can do to reduce their per capita spend on healthcare, or improve the quality of care...or both. What is lacking isn't foreign countries willing to pay more for US drugs, or R&D.

Does Expensive American Healthcare Fund R&D and Medical Research? (mhaonline.com)

 

[MikeF]

You're assuming the reason for US costs being so high is R&D, and then asking me to prove it's not.
US market share of R&D spending in health is dropping pretty consistently, whilst still leaving them leaders. In your estimation, shouldn't this have a relative impact on affordability? And yet revenue per dollar spend on R&D sits at just over 700% in the US. Don't you think an unregulated market may be contributing to this?

It's a tricky topic, and I don't mean to sound like I'm tossing out your thoughts here. I suspect elements of what you say does contribute. But I remain mystified why this isn't a larger discussion point in the US, and why the belief that 'other countries aren't paying their share' is actually viewed as a way to close out the discussion.

I wish China paid more for Australian metal. It would boost our national economy. Although it would also drive up inflation. Ultimately, though, the price China pays for our minerals, and the long term viability of the market are key discussion points here, alongside the recognition that there are only certain things we can control. I would hazard a guess that there is plenty the US can do to reduce their per capita spend on healthcare, or improve the quality of care...or both. What is lacking isn't foreign countries willing to pay more for US drugs, or R&D.

Does Expensive American Healthcare Fund R&D and Medical Research? (mhaonline.com)

I was only trying to point out that a source of cost differential did not seem to be addressed or controlled for in the ranking.

I am all for overhauling the US healthcare system, with a redesign from the ground up. However, there is too much vested interest in the status quo from a number of interest groups, and as long a money equates to speech, there is little that will be done to change things.

 

[Estro Felino]

Since, I believe....UK is considered the brave titan against the EU and its neo-liberism, I think
its duty it is to potentiate their NHS, as B. Johnson had promised.
I already believe that it is one of the best, but it can be furtherly better so it will show the EU that it is the EU at fault, with its neo-liberism.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Two threads for the price of one:

1.
"The NHS has lost its prestigious ranking as the best health system in a study of 11 rich countries by an influential US thinktank."

2.
"The US had by far the worst-rated system, despite spending the most on care."

- NHS drops from first to fourth among rich countries’ healthcare systems

Have at it.

Spending the most is not surprising except I call it gouging first in order to spend more secondly.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I don't understand why the combination of massive spending and underservicing isn't the single biggest issue dominating US politics for the last decade.

I heard the premise is the US does most of the financial backing for research and the like, so it costs more for people living in the US.

If true I don't buy it.

At any rate it ought to be an issue, but Americans are being so used and abused now , people just don't recognize it anymore and think it's normal.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I heard the premise is the US does most of the financial backing for research and the like, so it costs more for people living in the US.

If true I don't buy it.

At any rate it ought to be an issue, but Americans are being so used and abused now , people just don't recognize it anymore and think it's normal.

Refer to my post 9 in this thread for a (slight) rebuttal of that.
The percentage of financial backing provided for research by the US is diminishing (as percentage of global med research spend). Still number 1, but trending down. Meanwhile, spending is up.
And there are reasons for drug companies to push this line to Americans about how they 'fund the world'. It doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Again...realise that's not your argument, and I actually think there is a little bit of truth to it. Just nowhere near enough to even vaguely justify the poor health service Americans are receiving, both on a per dollar basis, and just in totality.
You're getting ripped off.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

However, there is too much vested interest in the status quo from a number of interest groups, and as long a money equates to speech, there is little that will be done to change things.

Sadly, I think this is true.
Drug companies are doing a great job selling themselves as patriotic institutions championing health across the globe whilst defending themselves from evil socialist controls which would reduce the amount available to R&D spending, and reduce the production of effective medicines.

But off-label promotions, kickbacks, the shoddy practices of drug-reps (I mean...everywhere. But US practices are EXTREME...)
It's not great.

List of largest pharmaceutical settlements - Wikipedia

John Oliver Slams Big Pharma on 'Last Week Tonight' Return | Time

 

[ChristineM]

Can only speak for Australia, but we have issues in mental health services here as well.
I think you'd find ALL the countries listed are having some broadly similar issues in terms of aging populations, COVID-related issues, etc.

So, in relative terms it might mean that issues are hitting some countries harder, but all countries are taking a hit (I'm guessing).

I don't know about elsewhere but the mental health service in the uk has become terribly underfunded over the last 10 years. Hubbys brother has schizophrenia and is now having to do without any help from them. All resources are used up with those people who are harmful to themselves or others. There is nothing left for non violent mental health

 

[Altfish]

10 years of austerity is basically why the NHS is struggling. They're also running at about a 10% staff vacancy rate.
I worked for the NHS in the 2000s, things were very different back then.

Austerity in NHS = Tory Government running it down to justify privatisation

 

[Martin]

I don't know about elsewhere but the mental health service in the uk has become terribly underfunded over the last 10 years. Hubbys brother has schizophrenia and is now having to do without any help from them. All resources are used up with those people who are harmful to themselves or others. There is nothing left for non violent mental health

Mental health has always been the poor relation on the UK, and "care in the community" was a euphemism for cost-cutting, shutting down a lot of the residential provision.
Many years ago I worked at a community home for people not well enough to live indendently, there were lots of schizophrenics. They kept the residents heavily medicated, I'm convinced this was at least partly done to reduce staffing costs.
I took a group of them to the pub regularly, which the management frowned on. It was a bit like that film "One flew over the cuckoo's nest".

 

[Martin]

Austerity in NHS = Tory Government running it down to justify privatisation

And pushing desperate patients into paying for private care, particularly for elective surgery.

 

[Secret Chief]

"care in the community"

and not forgetting Cameron's "Big Society" wheeze.