Hellish near death experiences

[Nous]

Actually, I've read quite a bit on the subject.

What have you read on NDEs?

 

[Windwalker]

If you've ever had a hallucination that you can't distinguish from reality, then you'd be aware of how the brain can play tricks on you and would make you question the validity of any NDE.

I've had both. There is no comparison.

 

[Windwalker]

Actually, I've read quite a bit on the subject.

So what would you like to know?

 

[blü 2]

I don't know what that means.

It means that the subject did not, at the time of recovering from the NDE state, possess any new information about reality that he or she did not possess before entering the NDE state (being information that the subject could not have acquired from his or her local environment in the relevant period).

The peer-reviewed literature documents that people can have lucid experiences including complex and logical thought processes, form memories, and veridical perceptions not acquired through sensory organs during clinical death or the seconds immediately after resuscitation

My nearest dictionary says 'veridical' means "1. truthful 2. Psych. of or relating to revelations in dreams, hallucinations &c, that appear to be confirmed by subsequent events."

Which meaning of 'veridical' do you intend?

when there is insufficient electrical activity and oxygen in the brain to maintain even fundamental cardiac and respiratory functions

Should that not read "appears to be" insufficient electrical activity &c?

much less the global cerebral activity commonly assumed to be necessary for such lucid experiences, logical thought processes and memory formation.

The matter being documented is vastly stronger evidence that what is "commonly assumed" is a false assumption, than anything else that might be said of it, no?

Or are you claiming it as evidence of magic and / or the supernatural?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

“I was an alcoholic drug dealer that had become a thug,” he said. But he turned his life around. He no longer fears death, even after his hellish experience, because of his overarching, peaceful connection to the divine.

I don't think that there is such a thing as a "hellish" near death experience. It seems to me that it's a thing that Christians made up (I say that because Christians are the only people I've seen lie about this kind of thing) to make people feel bad.

 

[sun rise]

In what ways? Can you share what your understanding is?

First the purpose of the time between lives is to review the past life and learn from it before taking another physical body. So part of the time is spent in a review from a much broader perspective than a single life. Those whose lives are basically positive experience joy at a life basically well lived. That joy is called heaven. Those who have lived basically dark lives experience the suffering that they've inflicted on others. That suffering is called hell.

I don't have any specific details that seem coherent to me.

 

[sun rise]

I don't think that there is such a thing as a "hellish" near death experience. It seems to me that it's a thing that Christians made up (I say that because Christians are the only people I've seen lie about this kind of thing) to make people feel bad.

Here's a report from a Buddhist perspective which includes the hell state. Tibetan Buddhist Lingza Chokyi's Near-Death Experience

 

[angellous_evangellous]

Here's a report from a Buddhist perspective which includes the hell state. Tibetan Buddhist Lingza Chokyi's Near-Death Experience

Thanks for the website. Are you the illustrious Kevin Williams?

 

[angellous_evangellous]

This could possibly be a better source {I haven't finished reading it}.

Near-Death Experiences: Exploring the Mind–Body ... - ResearchGate

 

[wizanda]

Do you remember what kind of mushrooms they were?

Yes all sorts mixed together; had meant to be picking psilocybin; yet it was early morning, and couldn't see clearly, so eat lots without testing had got the right ones.

What were your beliefs or worldview before your NDE?

Had already been studying most religions, and had been an advanced seeker of God... So the NDE confirmed that was sent from Heaven to begin with.

In my opinion.

 

[England my lionheart]

I nearly died from violent conflict and from a bad reaction from medication,the first I knew of the first one was waking up and hurting, second one I just wanted to sleep so feel a bit cheated.

 

[DennisTate]

I've learned to overlook the preachy message of several of the NDE researchers. Rawlings' findings that you note (70% of NDErs not remembering) is intriguing and important, as, of course, there is the issue that so few people who've been clinically dead actually do report an NDE.

Yes... I did read a rather long and rather dry book by Dr. Kenneth Ring that went into detail on that and I suspect that Maurice Rawlings M. D., for all his many flaws......... does have an answer as to why such a high percentage of people who have a brush with death repress the memories.

 

[DennisTate]

I nearly died from violent conflict and from a bad reaction from medication,the first I knew of the first one was waking up and hurting, second one I just wanted to sleep so feel a bit cheated.

It is amazing how many ways a near death experience can be induced......
on this page I would recommend paying special attention to the link.... 11. Extreme Gravity.

Near-Death Experience Triggers

 

[DennisTate]

If you've ever had a hallucination that you can't distinguish from reality, then you'd be aware of how the brain can play tricks on you and would make you question the validity of any NDE.

But even in those cases where a near death experience was induced by
a reaction to a drug...... for example LSD in the case of actor Larry Hagman......
why do these experience result in such a massive change in the way that
the experiencer view the world and their place in it afterward?

Why would such an experience even result in a surge in IQ and other mental,
psychic and spiritual gifts afterwards?


The Trigger of Drugs: Larry Hagman's Near-Death Experiences

The Trigger of Hallucinogenic Drugs:
Larry Hagman's Near-Death Experiences

Larry Martin Hagman (1931--2012), www.larryhagman.com, was an actor best known for playing the ruthless oil baron, J. R. Ewing, in the 1980's television show "Dallas", and the astronaut Major Tony Nelson in the 1960's sitcom "I Dream of Jeannie." His television appearances also included guest roles on dozens of shows spanning from the late 1950s up until his death, and a reprisal of his signature role on the 2012 revival of Dallas. He also worked as a producer and director on television. Hagman was the son of actressMary Martin. He underwent a life-saving liver transplant in 1995. Although Hagman was a member of a 12-step program, he publicly advocated marijuana as a better alternative to alcohol. He died on November 23, 2012, from complications of acute myeloid leukemia. The following article was written by John L. Griffin, PhD for World University of Ojai, California about Larry Hagman's experiences with LSD and NDEs.

 

[DennisTate]

It's always seemed to me that if NDEs were not simply artifacts of the traumatized brain, but represented a reality external to the subject, then we should expect some aspects of reality to appear in the reports by subjects. Much the same is true of OBEs.

So we have no authenticated cases of a subject returning from an NDE with new remote knowledge of reality. Grandpa may meet the subject at the pearly (or sulfurous) gates, but he doesn't manage to pass on where his lost will may be found, for example.

Without some evidence of this kind, the hypothesis that the phenomenon is purely the product of the brain stressed by trauma, anoxia, or some other purely physical circumstance, is the only one with any objective credibility.

Not least because all the others require magic.

Former Atheist Howard Storm came back with a view of life in America in the year 2185 that
sure can inspire us and assist us to make this real.

Reverend Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience

The image of the future that they gave me then, and it was their image, not one that I created, surprised me. My image had previously been sort of like Star Wars, where everything was space age, plastics, and technology.



The future that they showed me was almost no technology at all. What everybody, absolutely everybody, in this euphoric future spent most of their time doing was raising children. The chief concern of people was children, and everybody considered children to be the most precious commodity in the world.



And when a person became an adult, there was no sense of anxiety, nor hatred, nor competition.



There was this enormous sense of trust and mutual respect. If a person, in this view of the future, became disturbed, then the community of people all cared about the disturbed person falling away from the harmony of the group. Spiritually, through prayer and love, the others would elevate the afflicted person.



What people did with the rest of their time was that they gardened, with almost no physical effort. They showed me that plants, with prayer, would produce huge fruits and vegetables.



People, in unison, could control the climate of the planet through prayer. Everybody would work with mutual trust and the people would call the rain, when needed, and the sun to shine.



Animals lived with people, in harmony.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

It means that the subject did not, at the time of recovering from the NDE state, possess any new information about reality that he or she did not possess before entering the NDE state (being information that the subject could not have acquired from his or her local environment in the relevant period).

I've had dreams of very specific things. Turns out my family was conversing in the other room or the tv was on or something. I've heard hearing is the last to go. While I tend to be open towards NDEs, it's also possible that they are just hearing what's going on in the conversations.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I've dreamed of heaven and hell. Just seems to me like the same room, different decorations.

Due to the different decorations, there were different people there with highly different aesthetics. I don't plan to spend eternity with Hitler and Stalin!

 

[Nous]

Actually, I've read quite a bit on the subject.

What have you read on NDEs?

No answer? you haven't read anything on the topic you can tell us about?

 

[Nous]

It means that the subject did not, at the time of recovering from the NDE state, possess any new information about reality that he or she did not possess before entering the NDE state (being information that the subject could not have acquired from his or her local environment in the relevant period).

Are you familiar with the cases of Pam Reynolds, Dr. Lloyd Rudy's patient, and the patient in the AWARE study?

If so, then explain how Pam Reynolds was able to report what her surgeons said when her ears were occluded and subjected to rather loud clicking and white noise, and was able to describe the surgical saw used to her skull open.

Explain how Dr. Rudy's patient was able to report Drs. Rudy and Amado-Cattaneo standing in the doorway and talking when he was flatlined, and was able to describe the string of Post-it notes on the computer monitor.

Explain how the AWARE study patient was able to hear and report the automated instruction of the AED machine.

 

[Nous]

Yes... I did read a rather long and rather dry book by Dr. Kenneth Ring that went into detail on that and I suspect that Maurice Rawlings M. D., for all his many flaws......... does have an answer as to why such a high percentage of people who have a brush with death repress the memories.

So are you saying that that huge percentage of people who've clinically died and are resuscitated repress their memories because it was a horrifying experience?