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Shad

Shad

Veteran Member
Hello all. I have been reading various forum threads on this site for some time now. So I figure I might as well register in order to post my views when I find a topic of interest. I am a student and teaching assistant at Simon Fraser University inthe department of Archaeology for 4/1 year(s) now. I specialize in Biblical Archaeology(religious/regional) as well as Syro-Palestinian Archaeology(regional). Archaeology as well as history has been a hobby of mine since I was a teenager. This naturally turned into my ideal career which I have been pursuing for a few years before enrolling at SFU. Outside of archaeology I study philosophy and history from various time periods. Presently I have began shift to eastern orientated topics as I feel I have a firm grasp on many western ideas and it's history. I am a soft atheist. In order to avoid confusion of labels many apply to atheist I will clarify by my use of the term. I do not believe in a deity or deities be it a god, creator, etc. I am not a gnostic atheist as I do not claim there is no god, creator, etc. As I can not prove there is no God. I just have not been convinced by any religion or philosophical argument that there is reason for accepting the claim there is one or that their version is the correct one. To me is god(s) is just an unproven concept like the multi-verse, reincarnation, etc. I at times call myself a fence sitting as I actively entertain the concept of god(s), reading various arguments for and against. Maybe one day I will find an argument which I accept for either position. However at the present I have not found one. I will most likely only comment on topics within my expertise or ask questions in relation to various religions. However as a warning I will be upfront that when I express my views I can be very blunt to the point of being offensive to many especially within in relation to my field of expertise. I do not play word games and I am not PC friendly to those that express views which are incorrect or pseudoarchaeology. Unfortunately many religious believers do express these views so I am bound to step on a few toes now and then. If anyone has any questions or comments feel free to post in this topic, related topic of any discussion or PM. Thanks
 
Matemkar

Matemkar

Active Member
Salam and welcome to the forum. I hope you like it here. And though I am not into theism-atheism arguments, I can suggest booklets IF you want to study the existence of God and necessity of religion from an islamic perspective also. In any case, welcome again. I hope you have a great time here. :)
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Greetings!

Have some....
images


And there's more where that came from!
 
Shad

Shad

Veteran Member
Matemkar said:
Salam and welcome to the forum. I hope you like it here. And though I am not into theism-atheism arguments, I can suggest booklets IF you want to study the existence of God and necessity of religion from an islamic perspective also. In any case, welcome again. I hope you have a great time here. :)
Click to expand...

I have probably read it before or something like it. No offense but most arguments for God are rehashed Christian or Islamic apologetics with both sides borrowing arguments from each other. I focus on philosophical arguments rather than religious arguments. From my perspective if one has no philosophy argument it doesn't matter what scripture says or what people interpret from it. If you have strictly philosophical argument divorced from scripture feel free to PM me.

At this time I am more interested in the treaties of Dhimmis with various groups. I have found a book covering the treaties with Christians. The Covenants of the Prophet Muhammand with the Christian World, John Andrew Morrow. I have found Arab Christian tribes which paid zakat rather than jizya due to the early military structure of the first 4-5 caliphs. What I am really after is data on the amount paid by individual contracts. I am lacking information on contracts in the Indian sub-continent and Peria Zoroastrian Dhimmis. How much the jizya, head tax, varies from group to group. If other groups beside Christian Arabs paid zakat rather than jizya.

It is hard to find reliable well documented sources. Most of my searches find apologetic information which makes claims without any sources validating said claims. If you could PM me any credible source regarding this I will add those to a future thread I will make asking for information. I will post a link to the topic as well.
 
Ryujin

Ryujin

Dragon Worshipper
Welcome! I am shocked and intrigued that a biblical archaeologist has no religion! I wish you the best time on here!
 
Matemkar

Matemkar

Active Member
Not at all. I guess you'll like "A few words on Knowing God", and if you prefer listening, you might like Sheikh Rajabali

As for your study on dhimmis, taxes and zakat during that period, I am not surprised you did not find much sources on it. Because, in the time of the fourth caliph, Imam Ali (1st Imam to shias), was turmoils. Because the mayors of earlier caliphs and some companions had unjustly plundered people and accumulated possessions (lands, animals, money). And with Ali coming into power, he wanted to question each and every one of them, so that he could give everyone their rights back and establish justice. And because of that, even the first people to pay allegiance to him, rebelled against him and fought him. Thus the turmoils. And with Moawiya fighting him to get power, that time was full of crisis. And I don't think historians would focus on other things when such big events took place. As for the sixth "caliph", Moawiya, his ruling was based on oppression. But again sunni historians are a little silent about it. Especially the Umayyad "scholars".

And I need to say that, I studied history, but I did not study the taxes and etc. in history much. However, you can refer to criticism books on history by mainstream shia scholars. For they are not apologetic, especially when it comes to studying history.

And for the oppression on people through taxes and other things, you can read Dr. Ali Shariati and other shia Muslim writer's books on history (especially his books such as "Abu Dhar Ghafari" and "Once again Abu Dhar") and find the reference books the writer gives and then completely analyze them. That would help for your researches a lot. And I will ask friends about more resources in the meantime inshaAllah :)
 
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Shad

Shad

Veteran Member
Biblcial Archaeology is really an outdated term but one still used by those outside the field. These days it is really called Syro-Palestinian Archaeology which covers periods preceding, including and seceding the Exodus, Untied Kingdom, North/South Kingdoms, Captivity periods. There are Jewish, Christian, Agnostic, Atheist and Muslim archaeologist in this field. It is quite diverse field. Often Biblical Archaeology is confused with Biblical Scholarship. Often both these fields contradict each other with one based on texts and history of these texts compared to that of excavation and it's data. Religious theology has become divorced from empirical data found in archaeology. Figures such as Aren Maeir who is a devout Jew, have beliefs which contradict established theology. Even he does not believe in the Exodus story as is which is accepted by theologians, the majority of Judaism, Christianity and Islam. In his words it is a conflict between one's personal religious ideology of both the layman and experts and what archaeology data provides along with what conclusions we can draw from it. Many can not divorce their religious ideology from an analysis. There is no evidence supporting Exodus narrative as is. For example the out of Egypt narrative is associated with a small group rather than a large monolithic group religions identify as Hebrews. The narrative is later adapted as a foundation narrative of the later kingdoms by a group of people who are not all associated with the former group. Take figures such as Robin Hood, King Arthur, Uncle Sam, Daniel Boone, etc. The stories behind these figures could and can be based on a partial history but it's the memo-narratives which are important, not the factual history behind these figures. In theology this narrative is highlighted but often confused as factual history by it's followers. After all the sources of the Exodus were written in the 9th century BCE not during the period in which the narrative claims it is.

My studies are in fact the cause of my dismissal of the 3 Abrahamic religions as mythological narratives, memo-narratives and foundation mythology. I use to be a Christian before I enrolled at SFU. There is a series of presentation covering the Exodus from various archaeologists and theologians at California Institute for Telecommunications and Information Technology from a year ago which covers if anyone is interested.

As I said in above it's a conflict of ideologies and that of empirical data. Laymen versus experts. American Archaeology (predominately Christian) versus Syro-Palestinian Archaeology. Origins theories versus Ethnic Identification.
 
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