Help Wanted: Fecund Female To Bear Neanderthal

[Shuddhasattva]

It appears that we....er, you modern humans wiped out Neanderthals.
It's not rational, but I feel some loss at making them extinct.
I don't argue it's a great idea to resurrect them, but it has some appeal.

I see this as desirable for many reasons, but most especially to understand extinction, language and cognition, the subjects such an experiment would most inform if properly approached in the full light of its potential.

Subjects we need to learn more about to avoid our own imminent extinction - wiping ourselves out, as it were.

Moreover, as neanderthals were mostly wiped out by (and possibly remnants integrated into) humanity, one could even say that we owe their genes a second chance at selection.

How's this for bioethics: what do we do about the millions of species who are now extinct, or will soon be extinct, because of human factors? If we can give them back their existence, should we? If so, how?

 

[crossfire]

Is this mitochondrial DNA or nuclear DNA they are talking about introducing? Have they tried this technique with other species, like perhaps a mammoth?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Yeah, it is.

A starting point - a baseline - might be to review Human Cloning and Human Dignity: An Ethical Inquiry.

But we know, if only imperfectly, how to raise a child, how to love it, how to teach it, how to prepare it to fulfill its potential in the world. We know how to embrace its human dignity. When it comes to the Neandertals, however, we are confronted with many, many more questions than answers. And we are virtually assured a rich complex of unintended consequence. It's inconceivable to me that this should not significantly complicate the bio-ethical issues. To dismiss these concerns as "moral hysteria" strikes me as more than a little sad.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

We know how to embrace its human dignity

What?

To dismiss these concerns as "moral hysteria" strikes me as more than a little sad.

Substitution. Appeals to condemnation are correctly dismissed as such, but true bioethical concerns should not be dismissed out of hand, but taken into consideration in planning the experiment so as to be as net-beneficial to all stakeholders.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

As much as it would be wrong, if I could my love of science would win out and compel me to sign up.
And then I'd probably hate myself later knowing the child is nothing more than a lab rat.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

They could be far more than a lab rat.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

They could be far more than a lab rat.

I have a hard time seeing that. Sure they wouldn't be confined to a cage, but for their entire lives they would be monitored, checked, measured, questioned, and never allowed to live a life free of pestering from the science community or general public. And in today's world it would even be very difficult, nearly impossibly without the assistance of others, for such a person to disappear and begin a new life somewhere else.

 

[Revoltingest]

They could be far more than a lab rat.

I guarantee (money back!) that the Neanderthal would never be a mere lab rat. Certainly, all would see him/her as human, albeit of different
genetic background, & with a very special role of research subject. This latter aspect would be troubling, since the person would have to be
able to opt out of the research project, & wouldn't even be able to properly make the decision to participate until reaching the age of majority.

 

[Penumbra]

I don't think it's a good idea.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

I. Certainly, all would see him/her as human.

Actually, this would be my main worry, as s/he may be socially and legally perceived as humanoid. His disenfranchisement could foreshadow disenfranchisement of the more (or less?) sapient of us.

It would have to be done properly with full protection of her rights guaranteed in advance. My worry would be that his being would be monopolized by the establishment bringing her into existence with less concern for his human rights than is proper.

 

[Revoltingest]

Actually, this would be my main worry, as s/he may be socially and legally perceived as humanoid. His disenfranchisement could foreshadow disenfranchisement of the more (or less?) sapient of us.

Even though I am slightly cynical about the stupidity & bigotry of my fellow knuckle draggers, I'm convinced that we'd not treat a Neanderthal as sub-human.
Bear in mind, they're brains were larger than ours, & with their greater strength, they could give us atomic wedgies if we dissed'm.

It would have to be done properly with full protection of her rights guaranteed in advance. My worry would be that his being would be monopolized by the establishment bringing her into existence with less concern for his human rights than is proper.

That would certainly be a difficult issue.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

I have a hard time seeing that. Sure they wouldn't be confined to a cage, but for their entire lives they would be monitored, checked, measured, questioned, and never allowed to live a life free of pestering from the science community or general public. And in today's world it would even be very difficult, nearly impossibly without the assistance of others, for such a person to disappear and begin a new life somewhere else.

Why? The public need never know their true identity, they need not be hounded. They can deal through one a few prominent scientists, with their anonymity mostly protected aside, living privately with their family preferably in a rural setting where inbreeding has its own neanderthals.

 

[Revoltingest]

Why? The public need never know their true identity, they need not be hounded. They can deal through one a few prominent scientists, with their anonymity mostly protected aside, living privately with their family preferably in a rural setting where inbreeding has its own neanderthals.

Hmmm.....I wonder about Neanderthals becoming numerous.
Would they make porn?

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Hmmm.....I wonder about Neanderthals becoming numerous.
Would they make porn?

LOL!

In all seriousness, that would be my other worry: once we get them started again, it'd be better to have multiple neanderthals who could breed, rather than forcing them into celibacy ...unless human (wo)men are also down to have sex with neanderthals in addition to mothering them ... there's gotta be some freaks (maybe in an archaeology department) out there, and if that's the route taken, what happens when we put neanderthal genes into our gene pool (if we haven't already...)

This could be the most serious unintended consequence.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Even though I am slightly cynical about the stupidity & bigotry of my fellow knuckle draggers, I'm convinced that we'd not treat a Neanderthal as sub-human.

It's been done in the name of science many times before. Shall we review some precedents?

Once we demote from person to specimen, his being human or "sub"human may not even enter the picture.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's been done in the name of science many times before. Shall we review some precedents?
Once we demote from person to specimen, his being human or "sub"human may not even enter the picture.

I know the examples too, but in the modern US (& even Canuckistan), I've confidence that the Neanderthal would have full rights.
Their bigger brains would be most compelling? Hmm....would they consider us worthy of full rights?

 

[Revoltingest]

LOL!
In all seriousness, that would be my other worry: once we get them started again, it'd be better to have multiple neanderthals who could breed, rather than forcing them into celibacy ...unless human (wo)men are also down to have sex with neanderthals in addition to mothering them ... there's gotta be some freaks (maybe in an archaeology department) out there, and if that's the route taken, what happens when we put neanderthal genes into our gene pool (if we haven't already...)
This could be the most serious unintended consequence.

A big difference in appearance would be problematic. It might be that a society most similar & tolerant
would be the best for a Neanderthal to be raised & to live in. People would be cruel to one seen as ugly.....

 

[Koldo]

LOL!

In all seriousness, that would be my other worry: once we get them started again, it'd be better to have multiple neanderthals who could breed, rather than forcing them into celibacy ...unless human (wo)men are also down to have sex with neanderthals in addition to mothering them ... there's gotta be some freaks (maybe in an archaeology department) out there, and if that's the route taken, what happens when we put neanderthal genes into our gene pool (if we haven't already...)

This could be the most serious unintended consequence.

I think it would be very incovenient to let them breed...to them.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

I think it would be very incovenient to let them breed...to them.

Canada and Russia are conveniently big countries and they'll be easier to feed these days.

 

[Koldo]

Canada and Russia are conveniently big countries and they'll be easier to feed these days.

So?