Herd immunity?

[McBell]

I am hoping someone who has a better grasp on this can answer some inquiries.

How does herd immunity work if you are able to catch the virus a second time?
would not being able to catch a second time mean herd immunity is pretty much off the table?

Please note I flat out admit I have a very limited understanding of the whole herd immunity idea.
So if my questions are answered by simply helping understand the basics better, please let me know.
And perhaps provide links to where it can be done

 

[Rival]

I am under the impression that 'herd immunity' is just a fancy term for how humans deal with illnesses 99% of the time. We all catch it, we develop an immunity, some folks will die, we go on with our lives and those with the immunity breed and pass it on to their kids.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

You've pretty much got the long and short of it. Herd immunity originated as a term in reference to allowing an entire herd of cattle to get sick and let the sickness run its course, then tend to the stonger survivors.
This concept breaks down if: immunity is temporary enough that active viral infections can reinfect formerly recovered individuals and subsequent infections are not less severe than the first.
Natural herd immunity is also not a quick process, with different individuals even in close quarters not becoming infected at steady, regular rates. With viruses with a high mutation ratio, that's very bad because it makes tracking new strains harder.
Herd immunity for vaccination works differently. The idea is to make active infections so low that the virus doesn't have time to mutate. And if there are mutations and new strains, it's easier to track.
In the case of Covid, it also has a high hospitalization and long term injury rate. Meaning that everyone getting infections makes the population weaker, not stronger, and places lots of strain on resources.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You've pretty much got the long and short of it. Herd immunity originated as a term in reference to allowing an entire herd of cattle to get sick and let the sickness run its course, then tend to the stonger survivors.
This concept breaks down if: immunity is temporary enough that active viral infections can reinfect formerly recovered individuals and subsequent infections are not less severe than the first.
Natural herd immunity is also not a quick process, with different individuals even in close quarters not becoming infected at steady, regular rates. With viruses with a high mutation ratio, that's very bad because it makes tracking new strains harder.
Herd immunity for vaccination works differently. The idea is to make active infections so low that the virus doesn't have time to mutate. And if there are mutations and new strains, it's easier to track.
In the case of Covid, it also has a high hospitalization and long term injury rate. Meaning that everyone getting infections makes the population weaker, not stronger, and places lots of strain on resources.

And don't forget it's a hoax. Please tell all of your Republican friends

Seriously the problem with natural herd immunity is what we see right now. Long before we get to that point the hospitals are overwhelmed with cases and people that might have survived are unable to get the care they need. The cost for her immunity in the U.S would probably be several million dead. It is too high of a price to pay. With vaccines it is possible to reach herd immunity without the deaths of natural herd immunity.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And don't forget it's a hoax. Please tell all of your Republican friends

Seriously the problem with natural herd immunity is what we see right now. Long before we get to that point the hospitals are overwhelmed with cases and people that might have survived are unable to get the care they need. The cost for her immunity in the U.S would probably be several million dead. It is too high of a price to pay. With vaccines it is possible to reach herd immunity without the deaths of natural herd immunity.

And at this point it's getting people to knock the crap off so we can get through tbe next few months when the vaccines start rolling out.

 

[Dave Watchman]

I am hoping someone who has a better grasp on this can answer some inquiries.

Me too.

How does herd immunity work if you are able to catch the virus a second time?
would not being able to catch a second time mean herd immunity is pretty much off the table?

It sounds to me like you pretty much have it figured out.

Please note I flat out admit I have a very limited understanding of the whole herd immunity idea.
So if my questions are answered by simply helping understand the basics better, please let me know.
And perhaps provide links to where it can be done

Herd immunity has a nice ring to it. It sounds nice. But did the herd ever get immune to the regular Flu? To the common cold?

If the SARS-CoV-2 can go from the farmer to the mink, and back to the farmer again as a mutated strain all within a month, I wouldn't be holding my breath for herd immunity.

I would load up on vitamin - D. Old people, obese people and dark skinned people have difficulty metabolizing vitamin D from the UVb. The Maasai tribe of Africa are an exception. Though they are very dark, they have five times the vitamin D in their bloodstream, than a Caucasian living in the northern hemisphere. By living near the equator, and being out in the sun all day, they've made themselves an anomaly in the generation of natural vitamin D. Covid -19 is not a problem for them.

And I have some ivermectin on hand just in case.

I bought mine on amazon, four tubes of the veterinary version.

Apple flavor:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M1GPOA...ails?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=1607219962&sr=8-6

Each tube should be enough for five doses on a 200+ pound dude like me.

Lets hope it doesn't come to that.

I'm reading a good article on Nature.com about herd immunity:

In recent months, there have been reports of people being reinfected with SARS-CoV-2 after an initial infection, but how frequently these reinfections happen and whether they result in less serious illnesses remain open questions, says Andersen. “If the people who are infected become susceptible again in a year, then basically you’ll never reach herd immunity” through natural transmission, Rivers says.

“There’s no magic wand we can use here,” Andersen says. “We have to face reality — never before have we reached herd immunity via natural infection with a novel virus, and SARS-CoV-2 is unfortunately no different.” Vaccination is the only ethical path to herd immunity, he says. How many people will need to be vaccinated — and how often — will depend on many factors, including how effective the vaccine is and how long its protection lasts.

The false promise of herd immunity for COVID-19
​

Coronavirus Pandemic Update 52: Ivermectin Treatment

Coronavirus Pandemic Update 96: RNA Vaccine; Ivermectin

 

[Shadow Wolf]

In the case of Covid, it also has a high hospitalization and long term injury rate.

A note that must be mentioned on the hospitalization, straining them with covid strains the treatment of other issues as well. Heart attack, cancer, severe asthma attack, severe allergic reactions, trauma patients, they all are being added on top of a direly strained hospital system that is maxing out and overflowing because of covid.

 

[Heyo]

I am hoping someone who has a better grasp on this can answer some inquiries.

How does herd immunity work if you are able to catch the virus a second time?
would not being able to catch a second time mean herd immunity is pretty much off the table?

Please note I flat out admit I have a very limited understanding of the whole herd immunity idea.
So if my questions are answered by simply helping understand the basics better, please let me know.
And perhaps provide links to where it can be done

Herd immunity is the point when the percentage of people who are immune (by vaccination, having had it (recently) or simply a strong immune system) to a given contractible disease is so high that the virus (or other bug) can't find enough susceptible people to spread exponentially.
That is a very vague and relative point. Depending on the bug and the circumstances* it may vary widely. For Covid-19 it is expected to be around 70%.
Herd immunity doesn't mean that no-one is going to get ill, just that when you get ill you'll infect on average less than one other. But over all it helps those who can't get vaccinated because of the lowered chances to get it.
A very high immunity can even lead to elimination of a virus like it did with small pox.

*In a society where there are few outside contacts and few, or at least rational, inside contacts, herd immunity may be reached at very low percentages. That was what the Swedes were hoping.