Heterosexual sins, adultery, fornication, etc.

[BrightShadow]

When something clearly fits it's definition it is by no means "wrong" to call it what it is.

Guess what, you have to accept homosexuality in order to accept homosexuals, one is an extension of the other, if you want to claim liking or loving them. Otherwise, you're a liar.

Homosexuality is not sin. Neither is being transgender.

Also, homosexuality isn't just about sex. It entails identity, disposition, etc. Not just about sex acts.

What is the exact definition of the word "Homophobic"?
Where does it say that you have to LOVE homosexuals in order to not be a homophobic?
I do not fear (phobia) gay people nor do I dislike them in any sense you are implying. That is what the word means. It doesn't say I have to love them or love homosexuality. I accept it's existence, I accept the people who think it is okay to indulge in this life style, I accept that they feel that they are born with it. But my opinion on how they are born with it - is different than most people think.

I associate with gay people very often, sometimes on a daily basis. Unless they talk or act in a sexually inappropriate way with me - I have no issue with any of them that I have met over the years.
So, words like "homophobic" shouldn't be thrown around because all it does - is kill the conversation. Unless that is what your intention is to begin with! In that case - why open a thread and ask questions?
In today's world - I don't see anyone prosecuting or talking ill of ALL gays the way they used to in the past. The table has turned - it is actually the other way around. I see more and more people accepting it or getting used to living with it. For better or worse - it happened due to the highly organized propaganda over social media and never-ending attempts to normalize it. And now if anyone try to talk against or even show a valid concern - they are getting demonized. So, you should be happy the way the world has turned into.

The problem I have is .....
I think it interferes with God's intended plan.
I don't like it when I see men acting like women or women acting like men.
If it is not unnatural then why try to act like something you are not? Why try to be a man or a woman?
How do you explain to a 5 year old - why a man is dressed up like a woman? Do you start explaining their sexual orientation or do you just say - it is a free world!
I have a problem with inadvertently coming across two men passionately kissing. Even to see that in a movie (of course I forward the scene). I do not like it when it is thrown on my face without warning. Of course tolerance levels goes up as you are exposed to it but do I want my tolerance level go up or should I just stop watching movies on Netflix?
If news casters were reading news naked everyday on TV then my tolerance level will also go up but should I continue to watch news?

I absolutely agree that - when a child reaches puberty - sexual attraction for the opposite sex or same sex can begin in the same fashion for two different human child - where one becomes heterosexual and the other becomes homosexual.
I also think that Homosexuality and Heterosexuality both can commence via nature or nurture or via a combination of both. In both cases - it can begin the same way!

So, the question is - why one is an acceptable sexual orientation and the other one can be seen as "wicked" to many? Of course one of the main reason - hetero seems normal is because of the fact it facilitates reproduction - something that comply with God's plan. But there is more to it than that.
We are born with basic instincts. We can differentiate and figure out what is right and what is wrong even without the help of any religious doctrines.
Heterosexuals don't feel anything wrong with their inclination because they see the example of their parents and grandparents. But the gay do feel something is not right. Many do wish they were born like hetero but they feel they have no control and so they give in.

The question remains - should they give in?
My answer to that is - no!

Unconventional or freethinking psychologists can't even work on this and try to find an alternate solution because they (organizations and activists) have convinced the world that it is natural and irreversible. So, no study can ever be done! If someone tries - they will be demonized. But when a boy wants to play with dolls when he is 8 years old - you worry!

 

[SkepticThinker]

I am pretty sure there is more to it than just that. Prophets/ religious doctrines should have mentioned it is okay in that case. I can respond to it but I think it would be off topic.

More to it? Like what?
Just homosexuality? Or other sexual orientations as well?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Why is consent needed? Why is sex deemed harmful, pathological, and psychologically damaging? Maybe because society makes it evil. If there is no such thing as sexual deviancy, then, like eating food, why can't sex be forced on kids? What harms come to them but what society makes it to be? Kids are only traumatized because they believe it's evil and harmful to them. The concept of it being evil to kids is pushed by society.

Maybe we should not be pedophobics either.

Because it is. For anyone who has been forced to have sex without consent. Be it a man, a woman or a child.
Studies easily demonstrate this.
I myself have been suffering from PTSD and panic disorder for the last twenty years after I was raped. That's not because somebody told me it's evil. It's because it affected me in an extremely negative way, physically, mentally and psychologically. Studies bear this out.

 

[SkepticThinker]

What is the exact definition of the word "Homophobic"?
Where does it say that you have to LOVE homosexuals in order to not be a homophobic?
I do not fear (phobia) gay people nor do I dislike them in any sense you are implying. That is what the word means. It doesn't say I have to love them or love homosexuality. I accept it's existence, I accept the people who think it is okay to indulge in this life style, I accept that they feel that they are born with it. But my opinion on how they are born with it - is different than most people think.

I associate with gay people very often, sometimes on a daily basis. Unless they talk or act in a sexually inappropriate way with me - I have no issue with any of them that I have met over the years.
So, words like "homophobic" shouldn't be thrown around because all it does - is kill the conversation. Unless that is what your intention is to begin with! In that case - why open a thread and ask questions?
In today's world - I don't see anyone prosecuting or talking ill of ALL gays the way they used to in the past. The table has turned - it is actually the other way around. I see more and more people accepting it or getting used to living with it. For better or worse - it happened due to the highly organized propaganda over social media and never-ending attempts to normalize it. And now if anyone try to talk against or even show a valid concern - they are getting demonized. So, you should be happy the way the world has turned into.

No, you don't fear them. You just brand them as child rapists and abnormal deviants.

The problem I have is .....
I think it interferes with God's intended plan.

Then God shouldn't have invented homosexuality. He screwed up his own plan, apparently.

I don't like it when I see men acting like women or women acting like men.
If it is not unnatural then why try to act like something you are not? Why try to be a man or a woman?
How do you explain to a 5 year old - why a man is dressed up like a woman? Do you start explaining their sexual orientation or do you just say - it is a free world!
I have a problem with inadvertently coming across two men passionately kissing. Even to see that in a movie (of course I forward the scene). I do not like it when it is thrown on my face without warning. Of course tolerance levels goes up as you are exposed to it but do I want my tolerance level go up or should I just stop watching movies on Netflix?
If news casters were reading news naked everyday on TV then my tolerance level will also go up but should I continue to watch news?

Now you're not talking about homosexuality anymore and are now talking about transgendered people.

How do you explain to a five year old why is man is dressed as a woman? Easy. You say, "that's how that person chooses to dress. They like those clothes." And then you get on with your life like the 5-year-old will do.

I guess you should stick to G-rated movies then. Do you get upset when you see a heterosexual couple embracing? Why or why not?

You don't want your tolerance level for other people to go up? That sounds like your problem right there.

I absolutely agree that - when a child reaches puberty - sexual attraction for the opposite sex or same sex can begin in the same fashion for two different human child - where one becomes heterosexual and the other becomes homosexual.
I also think that Homosexuality and Heterosexuality both can commence via nature or nurture or via a combination of both. In both cases - it can begin the same way!

So, the question is - why one is an acceptable sexual orientation and the other one can be seen as "wicked" to many? Of course one of the main reason - hetero seems normal is because of the fact it facilitates reproduction - something that comply with God's plan. But there is more to it than that.
We are born with basic instincts. We can differentiate and figure out what is right and what is wrong even without the help of any religious doctrines.
Heterosexuals don't feel anything wrong with their inclination because they see the example of their parents and grandparents. But the gay do feel something is not right. Many do wish they were born like hetero but they feel they have no control and so they give in.

It sounds like you really have a lot to learn about human sexuality.

Homosexuality is seen as "wicked" by some because that's what ancient religious texts tell them, as far as I can tell. It's not rooted in reason or logic or anything like that.

The question remains - should they give in?
My answer to that is - no!

Should they be who they are, is really the question you're asking. I say, yes. We only get this one life to live. Why should people have to spend it pretending to be someone they aren't just to please a few bigots?

Unconventional or freethinking psychologists can't even work on this and try to find an alternate solution because they (organizations and activists) have convinced the world that it is natural and irreversible. So, no study can ever be done! If someone tries - they will be demonized. But when a boy wants to play with dolls when he is 8 years old - you worry!

An alternative solution? Why is one required? That's the thing ... psychologists know that homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality. They know it's not reversible. That's what religions believe, and have harmed countless people with their marginalization and demonization of gay people and their harmful "gay conversion therapy" that has been deemed harmful by people who actually know what they're talking about. Just leave them alone and get on with your own life.

Who cares if a boy plays with dolls? Men raise children too. Shouldn't they get some practice in when they're little, just like little girls do? What's your problem with a boy playing with a doll?

 

[Link]

I didn't say there's no such thing as deviancy.

I made it perfectly clear that homosexuality is not
deviancy and the rape of boys does not cause homosexuality. Sex, in an of itself, is not harmful. It is when it coerced on another (rape) who can't consent or is not willing that it harms.

Why does it harm, maybe, because we overemphasize it's dirty and harmful?

I'm saying when people conjecture, anything can be justified.

 

[Link]

Because it is. For anyone who has been forced to have sex without consent. Be it a man, a woman or a child.
Studies easily demonstrate this.
I myself have been suffering from PTSD and panic disorder for the last twenty years after I was raped. That's not because somebody told me it's evil. It's because it affected me in an extremely negative way, physically, mentally and psychologically. Studies bear this out.

Not true, there are societies, where kids grow up having sex even with same sex (kids suck on grown up for example), then, later on marry opposite sex. There is all types of societies with all type of norms.

I'm just saying in some societies, they force kids to have sex with grown ups and later those kids marry someone else (when they grow up) and do the same thing to other kids.

We only know norms we use to.

 

[Link]

W
Also, homosexuality isn't just about sex. It entails identity, disposition, etc. Not just about sex acts.

Some homosexuals and bisexuals argue this is false. That this is myth created by discourse, while, reality, is that there is no such thing.

This is disputed in Western Academia even.

 

[BrightShadow]

Then God shouldn't have invented homosexuality. He screwed up his own plan, apparently.

When it comes to religion - little knowledge is a dangerous thing! I am not saying you have little knowledge... I am just saying in general!
Before we blame God - we have to understand a few things...

Do we believe in God?
Do we believe we have a soul?
If so, then when was our soul created? Was it when we were in our mother's womb or was it prior to that?
Are there more souls waiting to come to this world?
Why we are sent here and why in our physical form and not in our soul form?
What did we do wrong that God decided to send us here without his direct presence?
How many soul or entity can our body (vessel) hold?
Who is devil? Why God gave him whatever power or authority he has?
What are the limitations of devil's powers?
Does any of God's powers apply to devil such as "omniscient", "omnipotent"?
Does devil even have power to be omnipresent? Can devil be at multiple places at the same time?
Does devil have any descendants?
If devil cannot be at two places at the same time - then how does he do his work? How does he manipulate billions of human beings at the same time?
Do we have a companion entity with us in our body during our entire life to feed us devil's influence? If not then how does devil get to us? Doesn't he have to be omnipresent otherwise?
If there is a companion entity that tags along with us and works through our conscious then can he/she have some sort of inclination towards a certain sex?
Are we required to keep such an entity at bay and dormant? or should we give in to his/her wimps?
What else such an entity do? And why we don't feel it's presence?
Why we didn't deserve to get clear cut answers from prophets regarding these questions?

There are many more questions and we need to know the answers to.

Anyhow, it is easy to not believe in God and or not seek any answers regarding any of these questions and just believe "we are born this way" and God invented it and thus it is God's fault!
Everything has an answer! It is scattered among multiple religions!

 

[BrightShadow]

You just brand them as child rapists

By the way - I didn't brand all gay people as child rapists! Is this your favorite weapon (falsehood) that you use to attack with?
Does it make you feel superior?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Not true, there are societies, where kids grow up having sex even with same sex (kids suck on grown up for example), then, later on marry opposite sex. There is all types of societies with all type of norms.

That causes mental, psychological and physical harm to the people involved.

I'm just saying in some societies, they force kids to have sex with grown ups and later those kids marry someone else (when they grow up) and do the same thing to other kids.

We only know norms we use to.

That causes mental, psychological and physical harm to the people involved. Demonstrably so.

Effects of Sexual Violence | RAINN
Effects of Rape: Psychological and Physical Effects of Rape | HealthyPlace
The Lifelong Consequences of Rape
The Psychological Consequences of Sexual Trauma[/QUOTE]

 

[SkepticThinker]

Some homosexuals and bisexuals argue this is false. That this is myth created by discourse, while, reality, is that there is no such thing.

This is disputed in Western Academia even.

Huh? Homosexuality refers to a sexual orientation - people who are attracted to people of the same sex as themselves.
That's not a myth, that's the definition of the word.

There are no sex acts that are purely homosexual that I can think of. Heterosexual people engage in oral sex and anal sex and everything else. Or they don't. They're still heterosexual though, if they are attracted to someone that is the opposite sex.

 

[SkepticThinker]

When it comes to religion - little knowledge is a dangerous thing! I am not saying you have little knowledge... I am just saying in general!
Before we blame God - we have to understand a few things...

Do we believe in God?
Do we believe we have a soul?
If so, then when was our soul created? Was it when we were in our mother's womb or was it prior to that?
Are there more souls waiting to come to this world?
Why we are sent here and why in our physical form and not in our soul form?
What did we do wrong that God decided to send us here without his direct presence?
How many soul or entity can our body (vessel) hold?
Who is devil? Why God gave him whatever power or authority he has?
What are the limitations of devil's powers?
Does any of God's powers apply to devil such as "omniscient", "omnipotent"?
Does devil even have power to be omnipresent? Can devil be at multiple places at the same time?
Does devil have any descendants?
If devil cannot be at two places at the same time - then how does he do his work? How does he manipulate billions of human beings at the same time?
Do we have a companion entity with us in our body during our entire life to feed us devil's influence? If not then how does devil get to us? Doesn't he have to be omnipresent otherwise?
If there is a companion entity that tags along with us and works through our conscious then can he/she have some sort of inclination towards a certain sex?
Are we required to keep such an entity at bay and dormant? or should we give in to his/her wimps?
What else such an entity do? And why we don't feel it's presence?
Why we didn't deserve to get clear cut answers from prophets regarding these questions?

There are many more questions and we need to know the answers to.

Anyhow, it is easy to not believe in God and or not seek any answers regarding any of these questions and just believe "we are born this way" and God invented it and thus it is God's fault!
Everything has an answer! It is scattered among multiple religions!

This has pretty much zero to do with what I said.

 

[SkepticThinker]

By the way - I didn't brand all gay people as child rapists! Is this your favorite weapon (falsehood) that you use to attack with?
Does it make you feel superior?

You have conflated homosexuality with pedophilia countless times on this thread already. I'm sorry if it upsets you that I have pointed that out.

Try reading and responding to my posts in their entirety, instead of cutting out the bits you want to respond to and ignoring the rest. TIA.

 

[Link]

That causes mental, psychological and physical harm to the people involved.


That causes mental, psychological and physical harm to the people involved. Demonstrably so.

Effects of Sexual Violence | RAINN
Effects of Rape: Psychological and Physical Effects of Rape | HealthyPlace
The Lifelong Consequences of Rape
The Psychological Consequences of Sexual Trauma

[/QUOTE]

So why are the kids in those societies fine and grow up fine?

 

[Link]

Huh? Homosexuality refers to a sexual orientation - people who are attracted to people of the same sex as themselves.
That's not a myth, that's the definition of the word.

There are no sex acts that are purely homosexual that I can think of. Heterosexual people engage in oral sex and anal sex and everything else. Or they don't. They're still heterosexual though, if they are attracted to someone that is the opposite sex.

Again this is disputed.

 

[SkepticThinker]

So why are the kids in those societies fine and grow up fine?

I'm willing to bet they're not.

Can we get an example of a particular society you are talking about?

 

[Link]

I'm willing to bet they're not.

Can we get an example of a particular society you are talking about?

Sure, I'm going to look it up in a reading I did.

 

[Link]

"Does the latter share the same sexuality with the New Guinea tribesman who from the ages of eight to fifteen has been orally inseminated on a daily basis by older youths and who, after years of orally inseminating his juniors, will be married to an adult woman and have children of his own?"

Source: A Critical Introduction to Queer Theory, NIKKI SULLIVAN, page: 2.

 

[BrightShadow]

You have conflated homosexuality with pedophilia countless times on this thread already. I'm sorry if it upsets you that I have pointed that out.

Try reading and responding to my posts in their entirety, instead of cutting out the bits you want to respond to and ignoring the rest. TIA.

I don't think anything much I can say to the other things you have written. Our differences on this matter is too vast. You don't think a gay pedophile is homosexual. You believe that - since he goes after boys - it should only qualify him to be a pedophile - it does not qualify him to be in the the homosexual category at all!
All pedophiles are pedophiles - so a gay pedophile cannot be gay because he is a pedophile! There must be a name for this kind of logic!

You believe that since I bring up one of the byproduct of homosexuality - I am assigning it to all homosexuals in general. It is just wrong! I have said multiple times - some homosexuals go after boys - NOT ALL!

I was just trying to say that since it would be a act of hypocrisy for a religion person to be gay - so, a gay religious figure often goes after boys as he feels he can manipulate and have them keep a lid on the matter. It may have nothing to do with what other pedophiles go after kids for. There is a possibility the religious ones have different reason than other regular ones. The reason could be they don't want to look hypocrite. Since the religion is against this - maybe they feel they can take a chance with kid and have him stay quiet. If religion wasn't against it - then maybe they would seek adult companionship rather than going after kids. But you completely disregarded that possibility! You are also assuming the reason of priest in this regard for going after the kids!

Based on the questions I pointed out in my last post - I totally believe in something else regarding why people feel inclined to one sex or the other. Their inclination is coming from somewhere. I believe it does primarily come from the possession. I believe we are so used to this entity (each one of us has one of our own) that we don't even know the difference of living without it. It needs to be tamed. Devil is not omnipresent. This is how he delivers. He cannot influence everyone separately and at the same time. This is what I believe. Of course - you can believe what you want.
God didn't make anyone gay. IMO

 

[Link]

I don't think anything much I can say to the other things you have written. Our differences on this matter is too vast. You don't think a gay pedophile is homosexual. You believe that - since he goes after boys - it should only qualify him to be a pedophile - it does not qualify him to be in the the homosexual category at all!
All pedophiles are pedophiles - so a gay pedophile cannot be gay because he is a pedophile! There must be a name for this kind of logic!

You believe that since I bring up one of the byproduct of homosexuality - I am assigning it to all homosexuals in general. It is just wrong! I have said multiple times - some homosexuals go after boys - NOT ALL!

I was just trying to say that since it would be a act of hypocrisy for a religion person to be gay - so, a gay religious figure often goes after boys as he feels he can manipulate and have them keep a lid on the matter. It may have nothing to do with what other pedophiles go after kids for. There is a possibility the religious ones have different reason than other regular ones. The reason could be they don't want to look hypocrite. Since the religion is against this - maybe they feel they can take a chance with kid and have him stay quiet. If religion wasn't against it - then maybe they would seek adult companionship rather than going after kids. But you completely disregarded that possibility! You are also assuming the reason of priest in this regard for going after the kids!

Based on the questions I pointed out in my last post - I totally believe in something else regarding why people feel inclined to one sex or the other. Their inclination is coming from somewhere. I believe it does primarily come from the possession. I believe we are so used to this entity (each one of us has one of our own) that we don't even know the difference of living without it. It needs to be tamed. Devil is not omnipresent. This is how he delivers. He cannot influence everyone separately and at the same time. This is what I believe. Of course - you can believe what you want.
God didn't make anyone gay. IMO

You speak truth - and it might cost you friends, position, and even a million dollar career to hold on to it, but you speak truth.

My advice is to complete the journey to truth and find out who is the light of the world for Jesus (a) said "I am the light of the world so long as I am in this world" and we know he ascended to heaven and is no longer in this world.

Don't attach yourself to anyone, and take no one as authority per religion except who God proves their authority, don't trust anyone as pure or righteous by reputation but rather who is proven by God's scriptures and who himself has made known to be righteous and pure by his grace and mercy.

This should be our common ground and we should search together with a spirit of friendliness to one another and sincerity to God.

Only these type of Christians and Jews really are we allowed to marry, which is why it says we have to good intentions in marrying them. Because we go to journey with truth, while polytheists of Satanic Jinn Worship are opposite in morals, path, calling, beliefs, there is no way to make the journey together, rather one will tug the other - either a clash, tug pull.

I'm also in the view, women believers can marry non-disbelieving Christians and Jews, meaning, if they know no insincerity to truth, they can marry them and take a journey.

However, so many Christians don't avoid fornication and Jews tricked by Gog and Magog have become so opposed to Muslims, that I think it should be taken cautiously, and better to marry just believers to believers. God knows best.