Heterosexual sins, adultery, fornication, etc.

[amorphous_constellation]

The world is deceiving. The sun is not the same size as the moon. And it took a lot of honesty, and even some blood, to prove that. The earth is not flat. Nevertheless, there are flat-earthers of every sort even today: political, scientific, social, and religious.

Read the first few paragraphs of part 3, section 5, of hume's 'a treatise on human nature.' That might be one part of an argument

As to my argument, it is not so much about man's total apprehension of objective truth at any given moment. Rather, my argument is that he should do the best he can. There is what you know, which is imperfect. You probably don't know every single fact there is to know about the sun. There probably could be large tracts of information written about the sun, or many books, which no man could fully imbibe. And it is possible that even with consolidation of current knowledge, much of it would lack complete objective accuracy, for all I know.

But there layers beneath current truth, of cheating out the truth in what little one does know. That seems automatically to become deception. I would not argue much with someone who thought the sun was flat, if he had little way of knowing otherwise. Nor would I argue much with someone who perhaps even lacked the conception of polyamory or monogamy, as perhaps these are also moral positions that were either created or discovered.

But to those who can see and understand what those lines in the sand are, and claim they of great import, and claim they follow them - but do not, then that only blurs what reality there might be in words like honesty, or truth

 

[Wildswanderer]

I see quite a few threads addressing homosexuality and transgender topics. Many pointing to the sin of it all.

But I don't see many addressing sexual immorality in general, just targeting specific groups. Why is this? Is it just that we choose people's sins as they become pop topics?

It seems that for a great deal of the world's religious that "Thou shall not commit adultery" has been lost in the shuffle, even among today's moral crusaders. Have they given up?

This thread is thusly about a specific naughty group.... heterosexual sinners and why no one cares that they get a free pass. Heterosexuals being the largest group also tend to exhibit the greatest amount of inequity.

Why do you think they get a free pass? Sexual sin is sin regardless.
There may be some wayward churches that give them a pass but that's not what traditional Christianity teaches.

 

[Viker]

Why do you think they get a free pass? Sexual sin is sin regardless.
There may be some wayward churches that give them a pass but that's not what traditional Christianity teaches.

I mean a "free pass" in the public arena of discussion, news, politics, etc. If we're talking about sexual immorality then why not use the greatest common denominator as example - heterosexuality and the sexual infractions from there in? Wouldn't the points being made reach a larger audience?

 

[Wildswanderer]

I mean a "free pass" in the public arena of discussion, news, politics, etc. If we're talking about sexual immorality then why not use the greatest common denominator as example - heterosexuality and the sexual infractions from there in? Wouldn't the points being made reach a larger audience?

I don't see why it's an either/ or situation and haven't there been multiple celebrities that have got in trouble for heterosexual sins like sexual harassment?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The Church doesn't want to lose out on the money and attendance from the twice married and those divorced for reasons other than adultery, I suppose.

 

[Link]

I see quite a few threads addressing homosexuality and transgender topics. Many pointing to the sin of it all.

But I don't see many addressing sexual immorality in general, just targeting specific groups. Why is this? Is it just that we choose people's sins as they become pop topics?

It seems that for a great deal of the world's religious that "Thou shall not commit adultery" has been lost in the shuffle, even among today's moral crusaders. Have they given up?

This thread is thusly about a specific naughty group.... heterosexual sinners and why no one cares that they get a free pass. Heterosexuals being the largest group also tend to exhibit the greatest amount of inequity.

Dear Viker

I have fallen in love twice in a row with a bisexual woman, and I do feel the inclination to not see it as a crime out of love and even deny hell out of my love for them, but I do believe it's a huge unjust state for many reasons and also believe hell to be a reality.

Anyways, that would be off-topic to explain why I think it's a crime but on topic is the following post from a Shiite brother in a different forum in a galaxy far far away long time ago:


I couldn't care less what people do in their own bedroom and private life. They can sin how much they want. The problem is that the LGBT movement wants to shove their dogma down your throat in all aspects of society. Especially in school where they are grooming and sexualize children. Universities and schools in the west are supposed to be politically and religiously neutral. And obviously, it's not neutral anymore.

Unfortunately, many muslims in the west even support the LGBT movement just because the LGBTs say "Free Palestine" on their social media. They view them as valuable allies even.

Maybe you yourself don't get affected by the LGBT propaganda and gender dysphoria. But if we don't do anything about it, your future children and grandchildren has a high chance of becoming gay/lesbian, and do all sorts of haram things. Because the woke LGBT is normalizing and even glorifying things that are an affront to Islam and everything that is good in this world. The LGBT movement are eventually coming for YOUR children. And your future grandchildren will not be muslims anymore. You can choose to believe it or not

Just look how corrupt and decadent western people has become because of the zionist influence. Teenage girls having sex with multiple guys and all sorts of decadence. That's the future that awaits future muslim children and grandchildren if they don't take a stand like Idrissa did

If you're alone, it's no use if you take the flags and throw them in the trash. Would be better if the muslims in the campus could organize and protest against it. Or write to the relevant authorities in the university.

 

[BrightShadow]

I see quite a few threads addressing homosexuality and transgender topics. Many pointing to the sin of it all.

But I don't see many addressing sexual immorality in general, just targeting specific groups. Why is this? Is it just that we choose people's sins as they become pop topics?

It seems that for a great deal of the world's religious that "Thou shall not commit adultery" has been lost in the shuffle, even among today's moral crusaders. Have they given up?

This thread is thusly about a specific naughty group.... heterosexual sinners and why no one cares that they get a free pass. Heterosexuals being the largest group also tend to exhibit the greatest amount of inequity.

It may seem that the heterosexual adulterers are getting a free pass from the society but the reality is - society is worried about bigger and more damaging issues these days.
Almost every movie on Netflix has some sort of homosexuality component hidden in it! In my opinion - it is an attempt to normalize it! It is almost like "cigarette smoking" scenes back in older movies.
The issue that can have more detrimental effect on the society as a whole - tends to worry us more! If you are dealing with multiple problems - you try to deal with the bigger one first!
If one person pees in the pool then it may go unnoticed but if 50 people pee in the pool then you spoil it for everyone! At some point the issue must be addressed!
Even though if it is consensual between two people and even if you want to acknowledge their right to their preference - everyone involve must pay heed to the bigger picture.
Are they damaging the society somehow?
You can drive on the paved highway (that the society, multiple religion and your basic instincts laid out for you) or you can drive off road and through the woods or into a ditch.
If you drive off road and don't think you are hurting anyone then you are wrong - you are setting a bad example and more can follow you!
It is not what the society can do for you - it is what you can do for the society!

 

[SkepticThinker]

It may seem that the heterosexual adulterers are getting a free pass from the society but the reality is - society is worried about bigger and more damaging issues these days.

So you're claiming that being gay is a worse sin than being adulterous?

Almost every movie on Netflix has some sort of homosexuality component hidden in it! In my opinion - it is an attempt to normalize it! It is almost like "cigarette smoking" scenes back in older movies.

Well, that's pretty hyperbolic, isn't it? Every movie? And it's hidden? Who do you claim is doing this hiding of gay stuff in every single movie?

By the way, homosexuality is normal. Gay people exist and always have.

The issue that can have more detrimental effect on the society as a whole - tends to worry us more!

Really? Do tell, what "detrimental effect on the society" does the acknowledgement and acceptance of the existence of gay people present?

If you are dealing with multiple problems - you try to deal with the bigger one first!

Why is homosexuality a bigger problem than heterosexual adultery?

If one person pees in the pool then it may go unnoticed but if 50 people pee in the pool then you spoil it for everyone! At some point the issue must be addressed!
Even though if it is consensual between two people and even if you want to acknowledge their right to their preference - everyone involve must pay heed to the bigger picture.
Are they damaging the society somehow?

No, they're not damaging society. My cousin is gay and a fully contributing member of society. She is a heart surgeon who saves lives every day.

What are these terrible things that gay people are doing to damage society? Do tell.

You can drive on the paved highway (that the society, multiple religion and your basic instincts laid out for you) or you can drive off road and through the woods or into a ditch.
If you drive off road and don't think you are hurting anyone then you are wrong - you are setting a bad example and more can follow you!
It is not what the society can do for you - it is what you can do for the society!

How are gay people hurting anyone?

 

[Viker]

It may seem that the heterosexual adulterers are getting a free pass from the society but the reality is - society is worried about bigger and more damaging issues these days.
Almost every movie on Netflix has some sort of homosexuality component hidden in it! In my opinion - it is an attempt to normalize it! It is almost like "cigarette smoking" scenes back in older movies.
The issue that can have more detrimental effect on the society as a whole - tends to worry us more! If you are dealing with multiple problems - you try to deal with the bigger one first!
If one person pees in the pool then it may go unnoticed but if 50 people pee in the pool then you spoil it for everyone! At some point the issue must be addressed!
Even though if it is consensual between two people and even if you want to acknowledge their right to their preference - everyone involve must pay heed to the bigger picture.
Are they damaging the society somehow?
You can drive on the paved highway (that the society, multiple religion and your basic instincts laid out for you) or you can drive off road and through the woods or into a ditch.
If you drive off road and don't think you are hurting anyone then you are wrong - you are setting a bad example and more can follow you!
It is not what the society can do for you - it is what you can do for the society!

I don't view homosexuality or the LGBTQ movement as damaging to society or as any sin, crime or threat. I do see intolerance, aggression and hate as serious issues.

It's not what you can do for society it's what society will do to you, especially if you don't walk it's exhausting and pointless arbitrary line.

 

[Truth in love]

I see quite a few threads addressing homosexuality and transgender topics. Many pointing to the sin of it all.

But I don't see many addressing sexual immorality in general, just targeting specific groups. Why is this? Is it just that we choose people's sins as they become pop topics?

It seems that for a great deal of the world's religious that "Thou shall not commit adultery" has been lost in the shuffle, even among today's moral crusaders. Have they given up?

This thread is thusly about a specific naughty group.... heterosexual sinners and why no one cares that they get a free pass. Heterosexuals being the largest group also tend to exhibit the greatest amount of inequity.

I could quote a few OT verses, but then I’d be labeled as calling for the death of all heterosexual persons. Lol


Sin is sin. There is a human tendency to try to make the sin we have committed or are more likely to commit seem less bad. Many have tried to use a legalistic approach to justify sexual sin as long as they are not married.

End of the day God makes His laws and He will enforce them. To remove any conduction I like the following fThe Family: “We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.”

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I could quote a few OT verses, but then I’d be labeled as calling for the death of all heterosexual persons. Lol


Sin is sin. There is a human tendency to try to make the sin we have committed or are more likely to commit seem less bad. Many have tried to use a legalistic approach to justify sexual sin as long as they are not married.

End of the day God makes His laws and He will enforce them. To remove any conduction I like the following fThe Family: “We further declare that God has commanded that the sacred powers of procreation are to be employed only between man and woman, lawfully wedded as husband and wife.”

Well, in your understanding of sin and God. As long as you don't want the government to follow God and allow the rest of us to do it differently, you can give to God what is God's and I will believe differently and give differently as per religion and then we can agree to let the government to decide to let us do it differently within secular law. How about that?

 

[Truth in love]

Well, in your understanding of sin and God. As long as you don't want the government to follow God and allow the rest of us to do it differently, you can give to God what is God's and I will believe differently and give differently as per religion and then we can agree to let the government to decide to let us do it differently within secular law. How about that?

There are many parts of Gods law that man does not need to enforce. I don’t want mans law enforcing a sabbath or giving to the poor.

There are some areas where man should enforce Gods law. No stealing and murder leap to mind.
Mans law can protect life, liberty and property. This leaves everyone to do as Joshua directed and choose whom we will serve.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

There are many parts of Gods law that man does not need to enforce. I don’t want mans law enforcing a sabbath or giving to the poor.

There are some areas where man should enforce Gods law. No stealing and murder leap to mind.
Mans law can protect life, liberty and property. This leaves everyone to do as Joshua directed and choose whom we will serve.

Well, stealing and murders are by definition wrong. The problem is in which cases they apply and what reaction they require.
As for life, liberty and property they are not given as absolute if you look at different versions.

 

[Truth in love]

Well, stealing and murders are by definition wrong. The problem is in which cases they apply and what reaction they require.
As for life, liberty and property they are not given as absolute if you look at different versions.

They are essential rights. In the DOi Jefferson replaced propery per suit of happiness as he was very anti slavery. When denied property people don’t live long.

All of our legal punishments fall under those 3 categories in some way.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

They are essential rights. In the DOi Jefferson replaced propery per suit of happiness as he was very anti slavery. When denied property people don’t live long.

All of our legal punishments fall under those 3 categories in some way.

Stop treating the world as the USA. If you believe that, then you are not in reality.

 

[Truth in love]

Stop treating the world as the USA. If you believe that, then you are not in reality.

lol

I’m not, but human rights are human rights. I don’t with to see a person in Ivey Coast suffer any more than a person in New York.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

lol

I’m not, but human rights are human rights. I don’t with to see a person in Ivey Coast suffer any more than a person in New York.

But the US Constitution is not the human rights. It is a variation. If you want to play the truth, learn to do that.

 

[BrightShadow]

So you're claiming that being gay is a worse sin than being adulterous?


Well, that's pretty hyperbolic, isn't it? Every movie? And it's hidden? Who do you claim is doing this hiding of gay stuff in every single movie?

By the way, homosexuality is normal. Gay people exist and always have.


Really? Do tell, what "detrimental effect on the society" does the acknowledgement and acceptance of the existence of gay people present?


Why is homosexuality a bigger problem than heterosexual adultery?


No, they're not damaging society. My cousin is gay and a fully contributing member of society. She is a heart surgeon who saves lives every day.

What are these terrible things that gay people are doing to damage society? Do tell.


How are gay people hurting anyone?

Also @Viker,

If you believe in God then you should know that God sent multiple prophets in multiple locations over multiple generations. God provided basic information to different parts of the world via different messengers but many information got distorted over the years due to cultural diffusions, authoritarian influence, lack of preservative method etc.
So, the information is out there but it is scattered among multiple religions. In my opinion any single religion shouldn't claim they have it all and that we should disregard all other religions. If you do your research and sort through different dogmas then you may get a better picture. But of course it is not an easy task because a lot of corruption have sneaked in.

However, even though the path is laid out via different religion - one doesn't need to be a believer to stay on that path. For most things we don't even need a doctrine to tell us what is right or wrong - we are also born with basic awareness! Our intuition can also guide us.
When we deviate from the intended path - almost in every scenario we all know what we are doing. You can struggle with it and try to refrain or you can deny it feels wrong and try to convince yourselves it is all natural! You can rationalize and try to convince yourself you have no control over it and you are not hurting anyone. A prostitute knows what she is doing is wrong, a thief knows what he is doing is wrong but they all rationalize their reasonings and convince themselves that they have no choice.

If you want to try to find out whether something is right or wrong - you should look at the picture with all the examples and not just the better ones. Of course a heart surgeon saves lives everyday but a gay priest with access to kids can be ruining 30-40 kids lives by taking advantage of them and abusing them! 30-40 little boys could be growing up in shame and in some instances turned into gay individuals by the priest because they had trust in him, they thought he was a holy man and he took advantage of that trust!
A prison can be a more dangerous place for the non-violent heterosexuals who cannot defend themselves against forceful gay advances of dangerous inmates. You can separate the men and women but can you separate gay and hetero? It would be too expensive for the prison system to separate everyone!

You don't have to find the extreme example to see the damage - you can also visit some gay club in bigger cities and get an idea why the public display of certain behavior can be confusing for a child's mental, emotional and social development even in a gay friendly society. Now think about the damage it can cause in a 3rd world society!

But forget all that - let me ask you this....
If a gay person could go back in time - would he/she want his/her parents to be gay?
If his parents were gay then it would be highly likely that - he won't be born and thus he won't exist!
Similarly hypothetically speaking - maybe someone out there didn't exist due to his choices? Think about that for a moment!
Why is it okay for you to be gay but not your mother when she conceived you?

Billions of years ago - God created all human souls at the same time. The total number of human souls ever born so far is about 117 billions. We don't know how many human souls are still out there waiting in some sort of God's depository. When all the souls have their turn to come to the world - we will have a Judgment day!
How many gay people are conceiving in today's world and thus facilitating in the natural progression of God's plan? No one is asking you to have 10 kids but everyone should stay on a path that helps the progression of God's plan so all of us and our ancestors and predecessors can go back to God's kingdom and face God on the "Judgment day".

You may not believe in God and you may not believe in the Judgment day. In that case the whole thing may sound silly to you!

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

The concern is about children. They need guidance early to make right decision.

Agreed, but how can I trust parents to understand which acts are objectively harmful?

 

[Link]

Agreed, but how can I trust parents to understand which acts are objectively harmful?

You can't, they can only remind you and show what you deep inside know. Same with Quran and Ahlulbayt (a), they remind, can't create light and virtue.