Hey Spinks! What's Time?

[Sunstone]

Hey Spinks,

When Einstein said that reality is an illusion albeit a persistent one, he appears to have been referring to time. If so, what was it about time that he thought was an illusion?

Thanks. And could you have an answer to my question by yesterday. I'm in a hurry.

Phil

EDIT: For those of you new to the Forum, Spinks (Mr Spinkles) is our resident physicist, much like Painted Wolf is our resident biologist. Spinks has his doctorate in some one branch or another of physics -- I don't recall which branch -- and he is a working scientist in his field. So, I'm pretty confident Spinks will tell us precisely what Einstein meant when he said time was an illusion.

I'm pretty sure that will happen if Spinks ever gets back from gazing at the shiny objects that seem to be absorbing his attention at the moment. Pennies, silver dimes, bits of copper wiring, fragments of old mirrors: it is quite understandable, I think, how such things are apt to attract the razor sharp mind of a physicist, such as Spinks.

I'm sure he'll be here soon. Just as soon as he can tear himself away from those fascinating shiny things he's found on the ground somewhere. Yup. Good Old Spinks! Razor sharp, that man! Absolutely fascinated with things.

 

[linwood]

I`m waiting too.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Time is a measurement of change.

 

[Sunstone]

Time is a measurement of change.

Yes, but the question was, "What did Einstein find illusionary about Time?" Are you saying he found the fact time is a measurement of change to be an illusion?

 

[linwood]

Well while we wait for Mr.Spinkles.


I`d say Einstein found time illusory in general as in "it doesn`t exist in reality".
It`s a useful human concept used to measure the distance between dedicated intervals.

It does not actually exist beyond the conceptual.

Just a stab in the dark.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Yes, but the question was, "What did Einstein find illusionary about Time?" Are you saying he found the fact time is a measurement of change to be an illusion?

The same reason temperature is an illusion: heat exists, but the measurement is arbitrary. That's why we have 3+ ways to measure temperature, and tons of different types of calendars and clocks.

 

[Sunstone]

Let's bump this thread so it don't get as lost as Spinks himself must be at the moment.

 

[Sunstone]

Let's bump this thread so it don't get as lost as Spinks himself must be at the moment.

I'm pretty sure Spinks will come help us understand Time just as soon as he puts away his shiny things. I'm pretty sure of that. I think I am, at least.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Maybe he can show you how to send a pm while he's at it.

 

[Sunstone]

Maybe he can show you how to send a pm while he's at it.

Too late! I done that hours ago.

 

[Sunstone]

Where's a physicist when you need one?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

You lied to me about this thread in your PM, Sunstone. You said there would be shiny things.

Okay seriously ... that OP is hilarious. The fact is that right now I am a graduate student, which as I told Sunstone in a PM, makes me the lowest life form on campus. Even rats are protected by law from unnecessarily cruel treatment in the conduct of research. Grad students are not. I have a doctorate in zilch.

James Randi says that having a PhD means being incapable of saying two things: I don't know, and I was wrong. So hey, at least I haven't lost that ability entirely yet. But I am working on it!

In my specific area (biological physics), we ignore Einstein's theory of relativity entirely. In fact, we ignore Newton's theory of gravity entirely. Now, if only we could ignore Sunstone entirely ....

Anywho .... I believe Einstein was referring to the fact that physical reality is at odds with our almost unshakable, intuitive notion of time. Our intuitive notion of time is that the hand on your watch marches forward at the same rate, whether you shake it or not. In reality, if you could shake it fast enough you would notice it fell behind the watch you kept sitting still. There are rules governing time, it's not like "anything goes" ... but the rules are very weird.

 

[Mr Spinkles]

You might say that Einstein's theory answers the question "What time is it?" The answer is that it depends on the observer's reference frame. "What's time?" is a more basic question. It's a fascinating question even without considering Einstein's theory of relativity. We know how to measure time .... we use a clock. What does that mean?

I think to answer the question, you first have to imagine what it would be like to have no concept of time. If you were an alien and you didn't understand time, all the states of the universe -- past, present, and future -- might look like photographs scattered on a table, in no particular order. In a universe where time exists, the alien would notice she can arrange the photographs from left to right, in a special order. If you took photographs of a universe without time, the alien would not be able to arrange the photographs this way. One rule that would allow the alien to arrange the photographs would be that the photographs must increase in entropy, from left to right. Note that if the alien doesn't arrange the photographs in any way at all, they still depict the exact same universe. Universes with time just have the special property that the alien can arrange the photographs, if she wants to.

Humans experience time the way we do because our brains are part of the universe. If the universe has time, then our brains must obey the rules, just like everybody else, or else the alien won't be able to arrange the photographs the right way.

 

[Yerda]

When Einstein said that reality is an illusion albeit a persistent one, he appears to have been referring to time. If so, what was it about time that he thought was an illusion?

Didn't he just sidestep the issue with something about time being what clocks measure?