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High School coach has a protected right to pray...

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Sorry, this is a little bit of a drive-by, in so far as I haven't investigated this story to the level I normally would.
I just saw it and figured it was an interesting discussion point.


From the article :
Kennedy started coaching at the school in 2008 and initially prayed alone on the 50-yard line at the end of games.
Over time, students started joining him, and he also began to deliver a short, inspirational talk with religious references.

Kennedy did that for years without issue, and also led students in locker room prayers.
Then in 2015, the school district received complaints that some athletes felt pressured to join in the prayers, and asked him to stop out of concerns the district could be sued for violating students' religious freedom rights.

He stopped leading students in prayer in the locker room and on the field but wanted to continue kneeling and praying on the field himself after games. The school asked him not to do so while still 'on duty' as a coach after the games.

When he continued, the school put him on paid leave. The head coach of the varsity team later recommended he not be rehired because, among other things, he failed to follow district policy.

I generally don't like prayers in a locker room, in terms of it being a group exercise. Been on the end of a lot of that stuff over the years, and I don't tend to make a deal out of it, just shut up and stand quietly, but if the intent is to build a team bond, that's a quick way to destroy it for players who sit outside the assumed religious norm. I'm generally okay with making space and time for players to do as they will, and although I don't do it when coaching, I'd see nothing wrong with having a couple of minutes silence as a group where players can pray silently, do visualisations, meditate, or whatever.

The ruling here was interesting, though, and on the face of it, I think I agree. They upheld the coaches right to pray on the field (publically) after the game as he was not coercing students to join him, and he was basically 'off duty' at that point, and therefore basically a free citizen, rather than responsible for the kids.
That kinda makes sense to me, I think, and so I tend to be on his side on this one.

It does worry me, though, that at the end of the article it says the following;
In a statement on Friday, the Bremerton school district insisted that it had 'offered repeatedly to accommodate Mr. Kennedy’s desire to pray, as long as he was not delivering prayers to students or coercing students to join him.'
'Mr. Kennedy’s lawyers refused to accept any resolution that didn’t include Mr. Kennedy praying in a way that involved students,' the district added.

If anyone has further thoughts, or knows more about this, let me know. The way the article closes certainly suggests that it might be a little trickier than I was first thinking. Then again, if they were telling him he should pray out of sight of the students once he is 'off duty'...well...why?
 

Sand Dancer

Currently catless
Sorry, this is a little bit of a drive-by, in so far as I haven't investigated this story to the level I normally would.
I just saw it and figured it was an interesting discussion point.


From the article :
Kennedy started coaching at the school in 2008 and initially prayed alone on the 50-yard line at the end of games.
Over time, students started joining him, and he also began to deliver a short, inspirational talk with religious references.

Kennedy did that for years without issue, and also led students in locker room prayers.
Then in 2015, the school district received complaints that some athletes felt pressured to join in the prayers, and asked him to stop out of concerns the district could be sued for violating students' religious freedom rights.

He stopped leading students in prayer in the locker room and on the field but wanted to continue kneeling and praying on the field himself after games. The school asked him not to do so while still 'on duty' as a coach after the games.

When he continued, the school put him on paid leave. The head coach of the varsity team later recommended he not be rehired because, among other things, he failed to follow district policy.

I generally don't like prayers in a locker room, in terms of it being a group exercise. Been on the end of a lot of that stuff over the years, and I don't tend to make a deal out of it, just shut up and stand quietly, but if the intent is to build a team bond, that's a quick way to destroy it for players who sit outside the assumed religious norm. I'm generally okay with making space and time for players to do as they will, and although I don't do it when coaching, I'd see nothing wrong with having a couple of minutes silence as a group where players can pray silently, do visualisations, meditate, or whatever.

The ruling here was interesting, though, and on the face of it, I think I agree. They upheld the coaches right to pray on the field (publically) after the game as he was not coercing students to join him, and he was basically 'off duty' at that point, and therefore basically a free citizen, rather than responsible for the kids.
That kinda makes sense to me, I think, and so I tend to be on his side on this one.

It does worry me, though, that at the end of the article it says the following;
In a statement on Friday, the Bremerton school district insisted that it had 'offered repeatedly to accommodate Mr. Kennedy’s desire to pray, as long as he was not delivering prayers to students or coercing students to join him.'
'Mr. Kennedy’s lawyers refused to accept any resolution that didn’t include Mr. Kennedy praying in a way that involved students,' the district added.

If anyone has further thoughts, or knows more about this, let me know. The way the article closes certainly suggests that it might be a little trickier than I was first thinking. Then again, if they were telling him he should pray out of sight of the students once he is 'off duty'...well...why?
It's unbiblical to pray just to get the attention of students. Ugh.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The ruling was wrong for various reasons. The reporting on the story was also not very good to say the least.


First the school district tried to accommodate him. They offered a space where the could pray privately. That was not what he wanted. They explained to him that he legally could be fired for what he was doing. The school never fired him. They eventually put him on paid leave and since this was an annual contract they did not renew it. What the coach wanted to do was to showboat and pray in a a manner that is both unconstitutional and unbiblical. This is a case that is likely to be reheard in some manner once the court is balanced again.

People felt coerced to join in on prayers, but of course wanted to remain anonymous. :

"As the 2015 season unfolded, parents voiced complaints about Kennedy’s prayer practice. One player’s father was “very upset” because his son felt “compelled to participate” for fear that he “wouldn’t get to play as much”… Other parents reported that their children “participated in the team prayers only because they did not wish to separate themselves from the team”Complaints were raised on social media also… After the school asked Kennedy to stop his practice, “several students and parents” “expressed thanks for the District’s actions” to correct the “awkward situations where they did not feel comfortable declining to join with the other players in Mr. Kennedy’s prayers.” "


I have also heard that the team improved while he was gone. How the USSC could rule this way shows that those on the right are no longer following the Constitution. Ironically they are not following their religious beliefs either. This was a far right sellout.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
It's unbiblical to pray just to get the attention of students. Ugh.
I agree, but I wouldn't ban or sack behaviour based on the biblical support for it, so even where something looks a bit...umm...self-aggrandizing to me, I'm trying to judge it more from whether sanctions are required or not.
 

Viker

Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
Matthew 6:5-8 NKJV

5 “And when you pray, you shall not be like the [a]hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. 7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.



8 “Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
The ruling was wrong for various reasons. The reporting on the story was also not very good to say the least.


First the school district tried to accommodate him. They offered a space where the could pray privately. That was not what he wanted. They explained to him that he legally could be fired for what he was doing. The school never fired him. They eventually put him on paid leave and since this was an annual contract they did not renew it. What the coach wanted to do was to showboat and pray in a a manner that is both unconstitutional and unbiblical. This is a case that is likely to be reheard in some manner once the court is balanced again.

People felt coerced to join in on prayers, but of course wanted to remain anonymous. :

"As the 2015 season unfolded, parents voiced complaints about Kennedy’s prayer practice. One player’s father was “very upset” because his son felt “compelled to participate” for fear that he “wouldn’t get to play as much”… Other parents reported that their children “participated in the team prayers only because they did not wish to separate themselves from the team”Complaints were raised on social media also… After the school asked Kennedy to stop his practice, “several students and parents” “expressed thanks for the District’s actions” to correct the “awkward situations where they did not feel comfortable declining to join with the other players in Mr. Kennedy’s prayers.” "


I have also heard that the team improved while he was gone. How the USSC could rule this way shows that those on the right are no longer following the Constitution. Ironically they are not following their religious beliefs either. This was a far right sellout.

Thanks, that resonates a bit.

I've spoken a lot about my junior coaching around here the last couple of weeks, but...

Juggling minutes for players is a tricky thing, and even where a player is getting as many minutes as another, there can often be the perception of favouritism.
I like high energy players, and will live with their mistakes. Low energy, lazy players are on a shorter leash. To me it's clear why (mostly around contagious behaviours) and to the vast majority of players I've coached it makes sense. But some see it as unfair bias, I'm sure. Certainly some parents would.

So the appearance of fairness is often as important as the fairness itself. I've had to explicity walk parents through how I assign minutes as an example, so they can see how the sausage is made. If they want to argue with the end result, I can live with it, but half the time I'm making a sausage and they're talking about hamburgers.

Thanks for the link, I will hunt around for some other sources too at some point.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Can you imagine if they prayed not to hurt anyone? I guess that would knock football out anyway.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Thanks, that resonates a bit.

I've spoken a lot about my junior coaching around here the last couple of weeks, but...

Juggling minutes for players is a tricky thing, and even where a player is getting as many minutes as another, there can often be the perception of favouritism.
I like high energy players, and will live with their mistakes. Low energy, lazy players are on a shorter leash. To me it's clear why (mostly around contagious behaviours) and to the vast majority of players I've coached it makes sense. But some see it as unfair bias, I'm sure. Certainly some parents would.

So the appearance of fairness is often as important as the fairness itself. I've had to explicity walk parents through how I assign minutes as an example, so they can see how the sausage is made. If they want to argue with the end result, I can live with it, but half the time I'm making a sausage and they're talking about hamburgers.

Thanks for the link, I will hunt around for some other sources too at some point.
There is nothing wrong with continuing to do some searching on your own. I also heard, but have not be able to verify, that since being paid travel time he was still technically on the clock when he did this. But if you find sources that look into both sides you will find that he was not fired. He was warned due to the complaints of some, Pray to play is a valid concern, and the school did try to offer him the ability to do private prayer. He did not want private prayer and that is the problem.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
There is nothing wrong with continuing to do some searching on your own. I also heard, but have not be able to verify, that since being paid travel time he was still technically on the clock when he did this. But if you find sources that look into both sides you will find that he was not fired. He was warned due to the complaints of some, Pray to play is a valid concern, and the school did try to offer him the ability to do private prayer. He did not want private prayer and that is the problem.
Cheers.
In general I've been strongly against locker room prayers. Even did a thread here once upon a time around Mark Jackson, and Charlie Ward.
 

Sand Dancer

Currently catless
I agree, but I wouldn't ban or sack behaviour based on the biblical support for it, so even where something looks a bit...umm...self-aggrandizing to me, I'm trying to judge it more from whether sanctions are required or not.
Right, but they really should know better. I guess they would rather showboat than obey the Bible.
 

wandering peacefully

Which way to the woods?
Those who insist on allowing prayer in school would **** themselves with rage if said prayer was of a religion other than Christianity.

Example: Hindu prayer in Senate disrupted
Wow. Good the "patriots" were removed. But you are absolutely correct. If any religion other than Christianity was promoted through prayer on the field, there would be another civil war.
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Right, but they really should know better. I guess they would rather showboat than obey the Bible.
They need a sensible atheist in charge of keeping Christians adhering to the Bible.
*nods solemnly*

(For any Christians reading on, my tongue is in my cheek, quite firmly. Unless this would be a highly paid position, and then I'm totes serious, and would like to nominate myself).
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Wow. Good the "patriots" were removed. But you are absolutely correct. If any religion other than Christianity was promoted through prayer on the field, there would be another civil war.
Well, only because they are false religions...

(For any non-Christians reading on, my tongue is in my cheek, quite firmly. If any Christians want to contribute towards a small prosperity religion I'm thinking of kicking off, though, let me know. Working title of 'The Church That's All About You'

(source : 7 Awesome Church Name Ideas)
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Can you imagine if they prayed not to hurt anyone? I guess that would knock football out anyway.
I wonder what he was praying about; victory for his team? That would seem an annoyingly trivial issue for the author of the universe to take sides on.
Football is symbolic combat anyway. Would God even approve of the sport?
 
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