"High School Students Crowned America's First Lesbian Homecoming Couple"

[9-10ths_Penguin]

BTW, Kathryn: just so I understand what you're arguing, are you saying that the school shouldn't have allowed a girl to run as "king" at all, or are you just saying that if they were going to let her run, they should've picked a different name for what she was running for?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I don't know what the rules were.
But if you have to volunteer and be nominated for either King or queen. Then it is simply up to the people who then voted for them.
You could end up with any combination. even Bisexuals.
It ends up with the most popular people who stand as King or Queen of any sexuality.
A Bisexual could stand as both King and queen on that reckoning.....

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

It appears the two girls were pretty well liked by the other students, and these other students wanted to make a statement that sexual preference should not be an issue of judgment. While selecting the two to rein as king and queen might seem an over-the-top way to express this feeling, that the students chose it speaks to their priorities: de-demonizing homosexuality is more important than adhering to the rules of gender roles. In reality, only males are kings, but it's not one of those rules that, in a fictional situation, is going to suffer by breaking it. That any student, male or female, is crowned king carries no more power than crowning them cod fish. It's a fictitious title, and as such can be constituted of whatever one wishes. Think king should only apply to males? Fine, but why make their selection one of popularity (by popular vote) when real kings are seldom chosen this way? Isn't that breaking one of the "King rules"? If you're going to consistently break one of the rules of kingship, hereditary monarchy, then why can't a student body occasionally break the gender rule: males only?

The UK and commonwealth have decided that The monarch will no longer be chosen by gender. it will now be simply the first born. The religious requirement is also to be removed. It would be interesting to have a Catholic as King or Queen, And head of the Church of England.

 

[Drolefille]

I don't know what the rules were.
But if you have to volunteer and be nominated for either King or queen. Then it is simply up to the people who then voted for them.
You could end up with any combination. even Bisexuals.
It ends up with the most popular people who stand as King or Queen of any sexuality.
A Bisexual could stand as both King and queen on that reckoning.....

This is not how bisexuality works. That doesn't make sense.

The UK and commonwealth have decided that The monarch will no longer be chosen by gender. it will now be simply the first born. The religious requirement is also to be removed. It would be interesting to have a Catholic as King or Queen, And head of the Church of England.

Were I in charge of a country I'd call myself King just to watch someone's head explode. "YOU CANNOT BE KING YOU ARE FEMALE."
I'm the King, I'll do whatever I want.

 

[Drolefille]

Am I wrong in asserting that when people run for Homecoming King or Queen that they are not generally chosen as a couple, but rather it is a popularity contest for young men and women?

I will repeat this: It depends on the school. Some schools, probably including this one based on the result, has a tradition of couples 'running' for King and Queen.

Your premise is not necessarily accurate and your conclusion is bizarre.

 

[blackout]

I would say that since Kings and Queens are generally married couples,
or Son and Mother,
this is how King and Queen should be voted for.

This is after all what Kings and Queens are.

 

[Kathryn]

The relationship is symbolic.

And I as I pointed out before, you have two choices:

-the homecoming "king" and "queen" are about portraying a particular heterosexual ideal (albeit symbolically)... in which case, it IS about sexual orientation and the students at this school are right to object.

- the decision to make them male and female has nothing to do with sexuality at all, and is simply arbitrary. In that case, there's no good reason to keep the tradition when it's clear that the majority of the students at the school don't want to.


And like it or not, those words definitely denote other things as well, which you conveniently ignore when it suits your purposes, but then you turn around and complain when someone else does the exact same thing. It's hypocritical.

A "homecoming king" falls far short of the mark of an actual king in any number of ways. If we don't worry about the definition, then this doesn't matter... but when you come in and argue that the definition does matter, then it becomes relevant.


We're talking about restricting what people can run for on the basis of gender and you can't figure out how this is discriminatory? Really?

No one was restricting either girl from running for Homecoming Queen.

But you know what - since words apparently don't really mean much - let's just call them the Homecoming Babysitter and Professional Ice Skater, or the Homecoming Postal Worker and Landscaper - I mean, words ain't nuthin' but a thang, right?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No one was restricting either girl from running for Homecoming Queen.

But you know what - since words apparently don't really mean much - let's just call them the Homecoming Babysitter and Professional Ice Skater, or the Homecoming Postal Worker and Landscaper - I mean, words ain't nuthin' but a thang, right?

Well, no... that'd be no good, because then we couldn't impose our ideas of gender roles onto a popularity contest and then appeal to semantics later as if it somehow excuses it.

 

[Kathryn]

BTW, Kathryn: just so I understand what you're arguing, are you saying that the school shouldn't have allowed a girl to run as "king" at all, or are you just saying that if they were going to let her run, they should've picked a different name for what she was running for?

I say call a spade a spade. The way I see it, some guy got cheated out of the position.


Not that he probably much cares, but who knows? My son won that one year and he got a really big kick out of it. I think it might have ticked him off if two girls got both positions, since one has been a position for a guy traditionally.

I wonder what the runner up for Homecoming Queen would feel like next year if a guy gets voted in as Homecoming Queen.

I think the whole thing - including the contest in general - is pretty stupid. I can't believe I'm still even discussing it. :run:

 

[Kathryn]

Well, no... that'd be no good, because then we couldn't impose our ideas of gender roles onto a popularity contest and then appeal to semantics later as if it somehow excuses it.

The usual ploy - demonize someone rather than try to be objective about terminology.

Words mean something. If you don't believe me, make sense of this:

A grapple vixen tussles nearly hexagon to wit.

I mean come on - you can't figure that out?

Secretariat for President!

 

[Drolefille]

And yet you continue to ignore that some schools have a tradition of couples running for both positions which negates your previous argument.

 

[Kathryn]

And yet you continue to ignore that some schools have a tradition of couples running for both positions which negates your previous argument.

IF this school did have that tradition, it would make some difference. I've personally never known of a school which had that tradition - but I guess there may be some who do - or, there may be occasions where a popular couple are voted in, even though the school doesn't have a definite TRADITION of it.

But that's all conjecture, and therefore rather beside the point to me.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I say call a spade a spade. The way I see it, some guy got cheated out of the position.

Cheated how? There are no inviolable rules to this sort of thing. The school can make up whatever rules it wants for its popularity contest. And apparently most of the school is good with how the rules were changed here, so I don't see what the problem is.

Not that he probably much cares, but who knows? My son won that one year and he got a really big kick out of it. I think it might have ticked him off if two girls got both positions, since one has been a position for a guy traditionally.

I wonder what the runner up for Homecoming Queen would feel like next year if a guy gets voted in as Homecoming Queen.

Probably a lot like the second-most popular girl in the school who's more popular than the most popular guy. Is it fair to exclude her?

I think the whole thing - including the contest in general - is pretty stupid. I can't believe I'm still even discussing it. :run:

I find it strange, too. You seem oddly worked up about something you say you don't care about.

 

[Drolefille]

IF this school did have that tradition, it would make some difference. I've personally never known of a school which had that tradition - but I guess there may be some who do - or, there may be occasions where a popular couple are voted in, even though the school doesn't have a definite TRADITION of it.

But that's all conjecture, and therefore rather beside the point to me.

You care an awful lot about this...

 

[Kathryn]

Actually, I care very little. But my husband isn't home, I've cleaned my whole house, all the laundry is done, and I haven't settled into Netflix mode yet.

In other words, I find this entertaining - sort of. Though I've had better.

 

[Drolefille]

Actually, I care very little. But my husband isn't home, I've cleaned my whole house, all the laundry is done, and I haven't settled into Netflix mode yet.

In other words, I find this entertaining - sort of. Though I've had better.

No, sorry, don't buy that.

But lets see you don't care except:
You object that people don't know what King and Queen mean
You object that people know what the words mean but don't follow them
You object that people don't follow them only specifically in the ways you mean - namely gender and nothing else.
You object that some high school boy was ripped off of something you don't care about.
You object that the students in charge of voting disagreed with you on all of the above, on something you don't care about.

That's just a lot of objections, and a lot of protestation that you couldn't be bothered to care a smidge.

This makes me suspect that your true feelings don't match your stated objections.

If they crowned two queens after both girls won, would you care then?
If they alternate so next year two boys win, would you feel like justice was done?

 

[Awoon]

Flame thread. Should be closed.

 

[Kathryn]

No, sorry, don't buy that.

But lets see you don't care except:
You object that people don't know what King and Queen mean
You object that people know what the words mean but don't follow them
You object that people don't follow them only specifically in the ways you mean - namely gender and nothing else.
You object that some high school boy was ripped off of something you don't care about.
You object that the students in charge of voting disagreed with you on all of the above, on something you don't care about.

That's just a lot of objections, and a lot of protestation that you couldn't be bothered to care a smidge.

This makes me suspect that your true feelings don't match your stated objections.

If they crowned two queens after both girls won, would you care then?
If they alternate so next year two boys win, would you feel like justice was done?

I don't care if you don't buy it. I enjoy debating points for the sake of debating, and for the mental stimulation. I often debate topics in which I have absolutely no emotional investment. But if it makes you feel better clinging to some fantasy that I've got some sort of deep seated angst or hatred of gays or whatever fueling my responses, I guess you can keep on thinking it. Seems harmless enough.

 

[Drolefille]

I don't care if you don't buy it. I enjoy debating points for the sake of debating, and for the mental stimulation. I often debate topics in which I have absolutely no emotional investment. But if it makes you feel better clinging to some fantasy that I've got some sort of deep seated angst or hatred of gays or whatever fueling my responses, I guess you can keep on thinking it. Seems harmless enough.

What I'm trying to get at is why the apparent objections you have bother you so much despite the fact that it's a rather heartwarming story, and general support of the affected population with no one receiving any real harm by the situation.

 

[Kathryn]

What I'm trying to get at is why the apparent objections you have bother you so much despite the fact that it's a rather heartwarming story, and general support of the affected population with no one receiving any real harm by the situation.

What I'm trying to tell you is that I'm not so bothered. I'm just debating this because, frankly, there's not a lot on the forum that's catching my attention.

Look - you're new to this forum, so you don't know me well - though you seem pretty quick to jump to conclusions. I post a lot on this forum, on many different topics. If you stick around awhile, you will see that I enjoy debating and discussing a wide variety of topics, the vast majority in which I have very little - if any - emotional investment.

So - as much as I hate to dissappoint you - I really - REALLY - don't care if two lesbians in California win Mr and Ms Homecoming. That doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on it - but having an opinion doesn't always mean one cares. The sooner you realize that the better off you'll fare around here.