[Hindus Only] Question for Hindus

[Kirran]

Well, I am against hereditary castes, I see no justification for it. But this is something I feel will break down in time.

Caste is sometimes used as a term for 'jati', sometimes for 'varna'. Really it's the relic of an attempt by the Portuguese map to Iberian concept of 'casta' onto the society of South Asia, in their trying to understand it. That in itself was something quite different and complex again.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaranm Kalyan ji

aupji, history has not started with your grandfather...It's much bigger than that..Just based on someone's word, we cannot twist the history...There are much bigger historians who confirmed this theory is a complete myth. There is no migration, there was no such concept of anything recorded in any of our scriptures. You know that there used to be a big land below Tamila nadu called Kumari Kandam which used to connect South Africa to Australia which got submerged? well it is said that this is all recorded in tamil pallava scriptures...Either it should have been recorded or confirmed by prominent historians, the aryan myth does not fall into either...Because of knowledge contained in the vedam, the max mueller along with other sheep injected this myth, as to why, just to say that some outsider gave knowledge to bharat...Many are still not coming out of this programmed mindset, just like when I say 'Please abandon or reduce the usage of english language' and introduce 'Sanskrit' as the first language, I would receive a total backslash because the mindset of indians have been programmed to the lowest possible levels.

I think that neither you or Aupmanyav ji are wrong , ...you are right to say that Bharat Varsha was once much larger , and that there were large areas which have now been submerged , ..this scientists and historians are begining to accept , ...but we must not forget that Bharat Varsha also extended furter to the north to the east and to the west , ...infact it was an entire continent , ...so when @Aupmanyav ji says there were migrations this also is not wrong but these migrations were within Bharat Varsha , ...for instance when the Zorastrians moved southwardly they entered the modern day India (which is itself only a sub continent of Bharat Varsha as it is now much reduced ), ..therefore in truth these migrating Zorastrians were themselves Bharatiya they to were Arya , ...so we must be very carefull when adopting Indian pride that others of true Bharatiya decent are not excluded , ....and please , please for the sake of your own karma stop riling against the Britishers , ...half the peole you detest so much took great interest in understanding Bharat Varsha and the concept of the Arya , ...they may not have been totaly correct in many of their assumptions but undoubtably many good works were also made during that period , ....

and yes I agree wholeheartedly that we should increase the usage of Sanskrit , but what is most important is that it is not just spoken but it is also understood , ..for that we need the works of many of the translators and schollars that you so detest , ...otherwise it remains the privilage of the Brahmin class alone , ..so if we are to break down the wrongs of the caste system and return it to the correct understanding of Varnashram Dharma then Sanskrit needs to be understood not just spoken , ...

 

[Kirran]

What would you say defined Bharat Varsha during this period? What made it bharatiya which is now different?

My only concern with popularising Sanskrit is that Sanskrit is a language linked very closely with scriptural study and understanding, and with philosophy. Making it a secular national language may be inappropriate, and at the same time many Hindus who aren't in Sanskrit-linked traditions would be unfairly made to learn it, when really Classical Tamil or Pali might be more religiously relevant to them.

 

[Aupmanyav]

You know that there used to be a big land below Tamila nadu called Kumari Kandam which used to connect South Africa to Australia which got submerged?

Oh yes, we know about 'Kumari kandam', that happened during early Cretaceous (150-140 million years ago). Though I notice that South India was adjacent to Antarctica. Australia was adjacent to Eastern India.

If you want to see a video of the breaking of Pangaia, it is here:

 

[Kirran]

This being when our ancestors were little possum-like creatures living in the undergrowth.

 

[Aupmanyav]

There is no migration, there was no such concept of anything recorded in any of our scriptures.

The Kurus came from Uttara Kuru, the Madras came from Uttara Madra and the Kambojas came from Uttara Kamboja. It is a different matter if you want to disregard what is written in RigVeda - Seven suns and the eighth born unformed, dawns extending to 30 days, an atiratra of 2 months and priests completing their sacrificial cycle in ten months.

This being when our ancestors were little possum-like creatures living in the undergrowth.

That is right, Kirran.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Caste is sometimes used as a term for 'jati', sometimes for 'varna'.

It is completely different for those who understand. There is no ambiguity. As I said in another topic (or perhaps this one), one is the name of the Species, the other, the sub-species. The first a label for the class and second, a descriptor. That is 'varna' and 'caste'. Portuguese did not do anything that was not already present.

 

[Kirran]

It is completely different for those who understand. There is no ambiguity. As I said in another topic (or perhaps this one), one is the name of the Species, the other, the sub-species. The first a label for the class and second, a descriptor. That is 'varna' and 'caste'. Portuguese did not do anything that was not already present.

I am just talking about the usages of the term 'caste' I observe Aup.

 

[kalyan]

nd please , please for the sake of your own karma stop riling against the Britishers ,

I dont give a damn

half the peole you detest so much took great interest in understanding Bharat Varsha

The britishers I am talking off are not the current britishers but the cruel sick britishers who occupied bhArat in the past timeframe, the britishers who starved over 3 million bengalis to death in the great Bengal famine of 1943 and it was a fool called winston churchill who orchestrated this all behind the scenes. So I don't need any suggestions I think.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Image from Alexander Cunningham's Ancient Geography of India.

What would you say defined Bharat Varsha during this period? What made it bharatiya which is now different?

Arachosia (Kandhar) and Gedrosia (Mekran) frequently changed hands between Hindu influenced and and Persian influenced kings. The Kabul Hindu influenced kingdom extended to Charikar (Udyan), Begram (Vigrama) and Golbahar. That was the Eastern and Northern limit. However, Moghul ruled over Herat, Balkh, Bokhara at times.

I do not think it was much different. Same potpourri of sects and beliefs, Hindu, and Buddhist after Buddha came about.

.. the cruel sick britishers who occupied bhArat in the past timeframe, the britishers who starved over 3 million bengalis to death in the great Bengal famine of 1943 and it was a fool called winston churchill who orchestrated this all behind the scenes.

Samaya, time, Kalyan. The righteous people in America, Australia and elsewhere have forgotten what they did to aboriginals. Look forward and not backwards.

 

[kalyan]

My only concern with popularising Sanskrit is that Sanskrit is a language linked very closely with scriptural study and understanding, and with philosophy. Making it a secular national language may be inappropriate, and at the same time many Hindus who aren't in Sanskrit-linked traditions would be unfairly made to learn it, when really Classical Tamil or Pali might be more religiously relevant to them.

I have to disagree here, sanskrit has nothing to do with vedam if thats what you are inferring. Vedas or sciptures are just written down in Sanskrit for its extremely powerful semantics. It can be easily made general purpose for all the languages are derived from Sanskrit (Lithuanian has heavily borrowed from Sanskrit for example too but that is not native). Let me rephrase all the languages of india have many sanskrit terms and it can be widely accepted across the state. If I say to introduce telugu or tamil as national language, that would not be accepted by anyone for reasons we know but sanskrit can be accepted by all. All we need is a nice strategy and a government that can do this, I am not saying ban english but just introduce sanskrit from the beginning itself

 

[Aupmanyav]

I am not saying ban English but just introduce Sanskrit from the beginning itself

Tamilnadu will not accept it in any case. However, I have no problem with Sanskrit if science is taught and not just Rama Bhajans. 'Vyavaharika' requires so many other things.

 

[Kirran]

I have to disagree here, sanskrit has nothing to do with vedam if thats what you are inferring. Vedas or sciptures are just written down in Sanskrit for its extremely powerful semantics. It can be easily made general purpose for all the languages are derived from Sanskrit (Lithuanian has heavily borrowed from Sanskrit for example too but that is not native). Let me rephrase all the languages of india have many sanskrit terms and it can be widely accepted across the state. If I say to introduce telugu or tamil as national language, that would not be accepted by anyone for reasons we know but sanskrit can be accepted by all. All we need is a nice strategy and a government that can do this, I am not saying ban english but just introduce sanskrit from the beginning itself

As Aup says, this wouldn't be well-received by many speakers of non-Sanskrit-descended languages like Tamil. Of course, you believe all languages are descended from it. That's fine, but we must remember many people do not believe this.

 

[निताइ dasa]

Even a Candala (dog eater) becomes eligible to perform Vedic Rituals if they chant, remember, hear or bow down to Hari-nama even once, what to speak of other varnas. This is confirmed in Bhagavatam:

"yan-nāmadheya-śravaṇānukīrtanād
yat-prahvaṇād yat-smaraṇād api kvaci
t śvādo 'pi sadyaḥ savanāya kalpate
kutaḥ punas te bhagavan nu darśanāt" (SB 3.33.6)

"By the hearing or singing of His (Narayan's) name, by remembering Him, and by bowing down to Him, even a dog eater is immediately given the qualification to perform Vedic sacrifices (i.e wear the yagnopavita), what to speak of those fortunate souls that have the Darshan of Bhagavan directly."

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Kalyan ji

, ....

I dont give a damn

unfortunatly yes so it would seem ....my grandmother allways used to say..... ''...'Dont Care' was made to 'Care'...''
I never could quite work that one out untill I came across the teachings on Karma, .....

.....sadly you seem reluctant to discuss any point raised and persist in side steping any issue by bringing up some totaly un related injustice by way of a smoke screen , ....

The britishers I am talking off are not the current britishers but the cruel sick britishers who occupied bhArat in the past timeframe, the britishers who starved over 3 million bengalis to death in the great Bengal famine of 1943 and it was a fool called winston churchill who orchestrated this all behind the scenes. So I don't need any suggestions I think.

No you wernt ,....actualy the Britishers you often reffer to in sentances like'' Max muller and his Sheep''are the indologists and Historians that you advse Aupmanyav ji not to follow , ...

aup- you should stop with the aryan myth-------there are no aryans, none whatsoever, the rishis who used to revise their present based on their thinking of past and present are called aryas (from the sanskrit dhatu-aarath) -----It has been long proved that aryan migration is a myth injected by britishers and you took that poison to heart.

what poison ? ......you are forgetting that Bharat Varsha covered all the areas that these so called , ..(but acording to you ,'nonexistant') , ......aryans migrated from , ...or are you denying that there were nomadic peoples or peoples who migrated from one part of Bharat Varsha to another due to changing Climatic conditions ?

here one very nice map of Bharat Varsha , .....

the max mueller along with other sheep injected this myth, as to why, just to say that some outsider gave knowledge to bharat...

this is total rubish , ...the above map clearly shows that any migrating peoples proposed as Arya , (even acording to these so called myths), ..all come from within the original continent of Bharat Varsha , .....therefore what I am saying is that we shouldnt be worried about any theories of migration as migration is a natural phenomena , and further more this map deliniating the extent of Bharat varsha proves that the noble Arya are infact Bharatiya !!! , ....so please just forget the British and let us see these theories in their true light , it is only natural for the human race to be interested in its history and to try to peice together the shreds of information , ...we like trying to solve puzzels , ....so please stop taking it so personaly to heart that ... A, ..the British were interested , ....and .....B, ...that they may well have put the peces of the puzzel together incorectly , ....or that anyone may have put the peices together incorrectly , .....

in short to use your language ..... So What !!! ...Who should care !!! ........after all it is prety material stuff , ...so if as you say , worry about the mind set of the lndian Nation , ...

Many are still not coming out of this programmed mindset, just like when I say 'Please abandon or reduce the usage of english language' and introduce 'Sanskrit' as the first language, I would receive a total backslash because the mindset of indians have been programmed to the lowest possible levels.

and what is happening now what mind set are you perpetuating ,?
what mind set have you become progremed by ?

personaly I am not against the use of sanskrit although I canot help but vere towards @Kirran. ji's thoughts that being that Sanskrit is not a secular language , ......but in the light of this conversation / argument , ...


I put a chalenge to you , ....instead of picking holes in other peoples beleifs and theories
let us try to lift the consciousness to a higer level , ...
.I propose you start a thread for Discussion on the Merits of Sanskrit , ....in relation to Vaidic Dharma
and let us put an end to this constant bickering , ..let us do something constructive , ...

only rule , .... no digressing into criticism of each others traditions or lack of , ....and no phoo phooing of eachothers
understanding ,......

let us all be prepaired to listen and learn from each other , and let us learn to apreciate each others company , ...

namaskaram

Ratikala

 

[kalyan]

Even a Candala (dog eater) becomes eligible to perform Vedic Rituals if they chant, remember, hear or bow down to Hari-nama even once, what to speak of other varnas. This is confirmed in Bhagavatam:

"yan-nāmadheya-śravaṇānukīrtanād
yat-prahvaṇād yat-smaraṇād api kvaci
t śvādo 'pi sadyaḥ savanāya kalpate
kutaḥ punas te bhagavan nu darśanāt" (SB 3.33.6)

"By the hearing or singing of His (Narayan's) name, by remembering Him, and by bowing down to Him, even a dog eater is immediately given the qualification to perform Vedic sacrifices (i.e wear the yagnopavita), what to speak of those fortunate souls that have the Darshan of Bhagavan directly."

Your statement, It is the biggest apachAra to Hari, and the rules ordained by him, do you even know the pre-requisites of performing yajnas ? If you are a sudra, do the karma prescribed for you, not involve in brahmin's Karma.......Brahmin is high by his birth, because of the good Karma he did in previous births, he is born as brahmin. But after he is born, how he utilizes that is upto him. ONLY brahmins and that too married can perform yajnas and performing yajnas there are like several hundreds of pre-requisite criteria! dog eater for vedic rituals? are you kidding me ? Don't follow ISKCON related translations for it is a Cult in the first place, their translations are aprAmanik

 

[kalyan]

namaskaram Kalyan ji

, ....

unfortunatly yes so it would seem ....my grandmother allways used to say..... ''...'Dont Care' was made to 'Care'...''
I never could quite work that one out untill I came across the teachings on Karma, .....

.....sadly you seem reluctant to discuss any point raised and persist in side steping any issue by bringing up some totaly un related injustice by way of a smoke screen , ....



No you wernt ,....actualy the Britishers you often reffer to in sentances like'' Max muller and his Sheep''are the indologists and Historians that you advse Aupmanyav ji not to follow , ...



what poison ? ......you are forgetting that Bharat Varsha covered all the areas that these so called , ..(but acording to you ,'nonexistant') , ......aryans migrated from , ...or are you denying that there were nomadic peoples or peoples who migrated from one part of Bharat Varsha to another due to changing Climatic conditions ?

here one very nice map of Bharat Varsha , .....

this is total rubish , ...the above map clearly shows that any migrating peoples proposed as Arya , (even acording to these so called myths), ..all come from within the original continent of Bharat Varsha , .....therefore what I am saying is that we shouldnt be worried about any theories of migration as migration is a natural phenomena , and further more this map deliniating the extent of Bharat varsha proves that the noble Arya are infact Bharatiya !!! , ....so please just forget the British and let us see these theories in their true light , it is only natural for the human race to be interested in its history and to try to peice together the shreds of information , ...we like trying to solve puzzels , ....so please stop taking it so personaly to heart that ... A, ..the British were interested , ....and .....B, ...that they may well have put the peces of the puzzel together incorectly , ....or that anyone may have put the peices together incorrectly , .....

in short to use your language ..... So What !!! ...Who should care !!! ........after all it is prety material stuff , ...so if as you say , worry about the mind set of the lndian Nation , ...



and what is happening now what mind set are you perpetuating ,?
what mind set have you become progremed by ?

personaly I am not against the use of sanskrit although I canot help but vere towards @Kirran. ji's thoughts that being that Sanskrit is not a secular language , ......but in the light of this conversation / argument , ...


I put a chalenge to you , ....instead of picking holes in other peoples beleifs and theories
let us try to lift the consciousness to a higer level , ...
.I propose you start a thread for Discussion on the Merits of Sanskrit , ....in relation to Vaidic Dharma
and let us put an end to this constant bickering , ..let us do something constructive , ...

only rule , .... no digressing into criticism of each others traditions or lack of , ....and no phoo phooing of eachothers
understanding ,......

let us all be prepaired to listen and learn from each other , and let us learn to apreciate each others company , ...

namaskaram

Ratikala

Oh god, first look up and tell me the meaning of word Arya before we could have any valid discussion....Aryas are not some jatis, there are rishis (aryas) everywhere in the land of bhAratha, I know what I am saying, clearly you don't and your british love for the sickness they have given to this land is amusing to say the least! You speak as if they came to bhArat for sight seeing? , they looted trillions and made the bhArat a poor country also killing millions of bhAratiyAs in the process, the damage done is irrecoverable, but that does not mean, I hate the modern day britishers but only the ones that have done damage to the nation....

 

[kalyan]

I will have to disagree with such a medieval and conservative mindset. The right to perform puja, priesthood or the right to read and commentate on Indian religious traditions belong to every one who is interested. The old conventions were based on a feudal mindset and the need to pass on the literary corpus from father to son through oral memorization. That age is over. The social conditions have changed, and thus the old norms are now irrelevant. Hinduism is ultimately decided not by what some so called authority figure decree but what people choose to follow, and thus have gone through countless reformations and revolutions. That is why it lives on, ever vibrant, colorful and relevant to all who follow it.

Simply no...Vedas are eternal and so are the rules ordained by them, they are not prone to change. How about you do jobs prescribed for you and let others do their own karma without poking into their stuff? you will attributing millions of births sins if you perform a yajna ritual if you are not a married brahmin and for them too there are like many ordinances on how to perform yajna, and how they have to observe all the karmas they have to do on the special days like amavasya and pournami and he has to lit the deepam every day......if not that brahmin is also ascribing sins..,,

 

[निताइ dasa]

Your statement, It is the biggest apachAra to Hari, and the rules ordained by him, do you even know the pre-requisites of performing yajnas ? If you are a sudra, do the karma prescribed for you, not involve in brahmin's Karma.......Brahmin is high by his birth, because of the good Karma he did in previous births, he is born as brahmin. But after he is born, how he utilizes that is upto him. ONLY brahmins and that too married can perform yajnas and performing yajnas there are like several hundreds of pre-requisite criteria! dog eater for vedic rituals? are you kidding me ? Don't follow ISKCON related translations for it is a Cult in the first place, their translations are aprAmanik

Dandavat pranam prabhu. Are we really going to do this again, where I present a verse from scripture, and then you jump at calling my position "apramanik" without giving any counter refutation of your own? It is really sad, because this isn't the "ISKCON" view as you put it, but the view of the Srimad Bhagavatam itself, which should rightly be accepted by you (if you call yourself a Sri Vaishnav). The translation I am posting here also agree with the Bhavartha Dipika of Sridhara Svami's commentary on the Bhagavatam. Harinama is so powerful that it destroys all form of Karma, even prarabdha (those relating with this body) so one immediate becomes as good as a brahmin in the spiritual perceptive after taking the Name once. However you are also right because a brahman birth is also a result of previous karma. Srila Jiva Goswami reconciles these two apparent contradictions in the following way:

One's varna is determined by a combination of two things, one's qualities, one's actions. This is confirmed in BG when the Lord says 'guna karma vibhagashah'. Now birth has some weight here also, because according to the previous Karma one may get a birth in a particular family. For example, a child born in a Brahman family will generally develop qualities of a Brahmin, because they are raised in such an environment. Note I say here generally, because sometimes this does not happen always (like Prahlad was born in a family of demons, but he was a Vaishnav), and therefore in such instances one's qualities must be taken into consideration as well in determining Varna. However, according to Bhagavatam here, anyone who even remembers Lord Hari and His name once (in a pure way) becomes spiritually elevated to the position of brahman in the spiritual consideration. Sridhara Maharaj says here:

"We say that by the power of Krsna-Nam, even the impurity attached to one's birth, race, creed, caste, or any other thing; can be done away with completely. It is not possible by yoga, jnana, or any other thing, but by Krsna-Nam, any sort of impurity can be obliterated, even prarabdha-karma. So, when all prarabdha-karma is purified, then one comes to the position of the highest birth, that of the Brahmin. Jiva Goswami says that at this point one comes to the status of a Brahmin boy.

But a Brahmin boy is not considered eligible to do the work of a Brahmin, until and unless he is given the sacred thread and mantram. When he is conferred with upanayana-samskara, then only is he eligible to worship Narayan, perform sacrifice, and carry out other duties which only the Brahmins can do. So by taking the Holy Name one is purified and attains the position of a Brahmin boy. But, Srila Jiva Goswami points out, that because we do not find any system to give the sacred thread to those not born in Brahmin families, then they will have to wait until their next birth.

The Goswami admits that whatever caste one may be, if he takes the Name of Krsna then he discards any defects of his birth, and attains the position of a Brahmin lad. Our Guru Maharaj (Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati), continuing this line of thought, said there is no harm in giving them the sacred thread, so the custom may be introduced. Our Guru Maharaj, continuing this line of thought, said there is no harm in giving them the sacred thread, so the custom may be introduced. Our Guru Maharaj came to introduce that.

He said, two things are being given indulgence by not introducing that initiation. Firstly, those who receive Vaisnava initiation may thing that they are lower that the Brahmins, so they must be encouraged. They should understand that they are no longer in a lower position and that they are fit to do all the various services. Secondly, the so-called Brahmins, who are proud of their flesh consciousness, come to think that those who have got Vaisnava-diksa are lower.

So they are committing offence to the Vaisnava. In order that the Brahmins and other so-called higher castes should not be given the chance of committing vaisnava-aparadha; and at the same time, those who have received the Vaisnava-mantra should not consider themselves lower and unfit to do the worship that the body Brahmins do; for these two-fold benefits for the society, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Goswami boldly came forward to introduce this system. There is no difficulty in the rules of sastra, according to siddhanta it is not wrong, but only there was no system established. Our Guru Maharaj established that."

This system was the "Daiva Varnashrama" system (where Varna is based on qualities not birth) was established by Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Prabhupada, and made admissions to give upasanayam and Vedic Mantras to those of non-Brahmin births (though spiritually they were Brahmins, as they showed Brahamic qualities).

I am not saying that the sudra should transgress his/her duties to follow the duties of another varna, however, those who take Harinama once are immediately elevated to the position of a Brahmin (in Sattva Guna) such is the glories of Harinama. That is why it is said in Garuda Purana:

"brāhmaṇānāṁ sahasrebhyaḥ
satra-yājī viśiṣyate
satra-yāji-sahasrebhyaḥ
sarva-vedānta-pāragaḥ

sarva-vedānta-vit-koṭyā
viṣṇu-bhakto viśiṣyate
vaiṣṇavānāṁ sahasrebhya
ekānty eko viśiṣyate"

"Of a thousand Brahmans (of birth), only one is actually qualified to perform Vedic sacrafices. Of the thousands that perform Vedic Sacrafices, only about one can be said to understand all of Vedanta. And yet, out of thousands of such brāhmaṇas who have read Vedanta, only one person may be a Vaishnav. And out of a thousand Vaishnavs, there is only one who is truly dedicated (ekanty) in Bhakti to Sri Krsna" A similiar statement is made by Sri Krsna in the Bhagavad Gita (bahunam janmanam....). Ultimatley the varnashrama dharma is of a material consideration, and useless if it does not cause attachment to the Lotus feet of Lord Hari

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Kalyan ji

Your statement, It is the biggest apachAra to Hari, and the rules ordained by him, do you even know the pre-requisites of performing yajnas ? If you are a sudra, do the karma prescribed for you, not involve in brahmin's Karma.......Brahmin is high by his birth, because of the good Karma he did in previous births, he is born as brahmin. But after he is born, how he utilizes that is upto him. ONLY brahmins and that too married can perform yajnas and performing yajnas there are like several hundreds of pre-requisite criteria! dog eater for vedic rituals? are you kidding me ? Don't follow ISKCON related translations for it is a Cult in the first place, their translations are aprAmanik

may I ask a polite question , before yet another thread turns into a Brawl , ....


...Did Sri Ramanujacharya not also break the same rule as did Lord Chaitanya , and Dilver mantra widly to all ? thus breaking the rule of Brahmins only ? ...
did he not in this way alow the lower birth to involve themselves in ''Brahmin's Karma'' alowing them to thus purify themselves in that one lifetime ? ....
Did he not Go to the top of a tower and widely proclaim to all, ...

"People! Hear me carefully! I am giving you the secret mantram which
will get you salvation in
this very birth, irrespective of your caste of at birth. Listen! Om namo
naaraayaNaaya!."

also is it not true that many of the great Alzwars were also born in low castes ?

Does it not say in your Gita that , .Krsna is impartial , and that he makes no diferentiation on the strength of caste alone , ....?

Chapter 9, Verse 29
I envy no one, nor am I partial to anyone. I am equal to all. But whoever renders service unto Me in devotion is a friend, is in Me, and I am also a friend to him.
Chapter 9, Verse 32
O son of Pṛthā, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth-women, vaiśyas [merchants], as well as śūdras [workers]-can approach the supreme destination.
Chapter 9, Verse 33
How much greater then are the brāhmaṇas, the righteous, the devotees and saintly kings who in this temporary miserable world engage in loving service unto Me.

Why then is what has beed said by Nitai dasa ji so objectionable , and why do you feel the need to Denigrate lskcon in the manner that you have just done , ....?

Why Prabhu ji , ..Why ?