[Hindus Only] Question for Hindus

[ratikala]

namaskaram Atanu ji

All strife in world is on account of trivialising the scripture into material-historical accounts. Veda is about the present moment.

Further, please check the definition of arya. Not the whole population or whole race can be arya.

jai jai

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Sakya ji , ...

In Hinduism, Vedas are the root and remain important. But the root is not the whole tree, nor it us adequate by itself if one wants to understand the tree. It is the "Vedas only" and "Vedas first and foremost" that is the problem. Attachment to the Vedas. Is it important yes, is it the only thing that is important? No. Is it the most important of all that is important? No.

here it depens how one sees the root , ..without the root there would be no tree as without the root no tree would have been able to grow ,.... similarly wonce grown it canot be seperated from the Root as the root sustains its very beeing , ...

Krishna says he is Sama Veda in the context of showing Arjuna how he abides in everything. And he, like the Upanishads teachers, changes the idea of Yajna to also include inner Tapas and striving. He is certainly not saying that everybody has to do an explicit Yajna ritual. It is fine and meritorious if a Hindu wants to do it, but there is more to Karma Yoga than that.

not just abides but is the very essesnce , .....

 

[Aupmanyav]

You sure know your stuff.

If I did not, I would have been torn in minutes.

Not all people of these speculative areas could be arya-s.

Even in Saraswati valley, not all people must have been Aryans. The indigenous people also must have living with them.

Unfortunately, the Vedas have been declared inadequate by Krishna, Buddha, all Upanisadic seers and many other Hindu thinkers over the last 3000 years.

You should encourage people to learn the scriptures and Sanskrit and perform pujas themselves instead of turning them away and holding onto to your exclusiveness born of ignorance. That is Tamas speaking, reject it. Finally, you assume much about me. It is sufficient to say that no Hindu tradition, however conservative and hide-bound, can stop me from performing a Yajna should I choose to. But that is not the way to Self-Knowledge, and thus I choose not to.

Sure, philosophies changed over thousands of years. Upanishad would not have been possible without the admixture of indigenous thought. Whether a Hindu performs a puja or not is immaterial (he can be an atheist Hindu like me, no puja other than shrāddha to be performed in the memory of my known and unknown ancestors), but I would be very happy to see all people learn our scriptures and Sanskrit rather than put their faith in Abrahamic religions which I do not think can compare with the wisdom of Indian religions.

In Hinduism, Vedas are the root and remain important. But the root is not the whole tree, nor it us adequate by itself if one wants to understand the tree. It is the "Vedas only" and "Vedas first and foremost" that is the problem. Attachment to the Vedas. Is it important yes, is it the only thing that is important? No. Is it the most important of all that is important? No.

Vedas are not even the roots, though they are important for many reasons. The root lies in Shiva, Mother Goddess worship and in the worship of regional Gods, Varāha, Nrisimha, Vāmana, Parashurām, Rāma and Krishna, who later got assimilated in Vishnu. Main-line Hinduism is generally non-Vedic.

@ratikala, Ratiben, I do not share my Krishna with anyone, neither with Mahaprabhu, though I respect him as a great acharya of Hinduism, nor with Nitai. This is my personal opinion, others are welcome to differ; but I wonder when this breaking up of sects into further sects and arising of new prabhus all the time will abate.

BTW, I was wondering whether we have Veda and Vedanta and teaching of non dual self in any of these link areas?

The pagan religions of Europe - Greek, Slav, Nordic, Germanic, Celtic, Roman, all are product of the Indo-European religion and mythology, and very much Vedic. You find exact equivalent of the Vedic myths in them, like the sky-God, Ourānos (Varuna), the dogs of hades - Kerberos, Cerebrus, one of the dogs of Yama Sarvarā,, the beach who helped Indra find sun - Sarāmā, and Thor hurling his hammer much like Indra hurls his Vajra. Greece had many shades of Vedanta.

@Terese, you must be feeling a little left-out. Yes, Turkey too was totally Aryan. Actually, the Anatolian hypothesis says that it was the original homeland of the Aryans. However, as you perhaps know, I am a believer in the theory that the original homeland of Aryans was somewhere within the Arctic Circle.

 

[atanu]

Simplistic racial materialistic theories create monster stories out of Vedas, which is a spiritual timeless code of creation.

In Veda, Om is visualised as a four headed bull. Indra's horse has seven heads. Rudra impregnates the prisni cow and generates Maruts. They cut Purusha into pieces and feast on parts. Father pursues daughter and son his mother. Drunkards full of soma write poetry about creation and Brahman.

Veda is replete with teaching of soul-atman and of mind that creates. Veda should not be read by folks whose consciousness is limited to physical body as self.

 

[atanu]

http://hindunet.org/hindu_history/ancient/aryan/aryan_frawley_1.html

Please evaluate this.

 

[kalyan]

the Vedas have been declared inadequate by Krishna, Buddha, all Upanisadic seers and many other Hindu thinkers

One cannot be SO...wrong...Sri Krushba is sAkshat paramaatma....The next time someone quotes this english translations should be shamed....Krushna says nitya sattwasta in second line and not go beyond 3 qualities as you cannot go beyond them in materialistic realm...the sattwika guNa here is called mishra sattwa.....oh god these absurd translation

Second, Krushna says tasmAt shastram prAmanam te, vedam is supreme authority and later shrutihi smritihi mamaiva agna...Now you should go back to drawing board and read some authoritative works instead of posting idiotic translations

 

[kalyan]

Namaskaram Kalyan Ji





I was merely pointing out to you that what is mistaken for an Aryan Migration of an outside people into Modern day India , was actualy migration of Aryan peoples from within the continent of Bharat Vasha into the area now known as India , ....you seem to object to this Idea earlier ?

what l am saying is that there is no need for you to constantly attack other people , ..or to make derogetory remarks about other peoples traditions or their ability to understand , .....

I am not here to answer my own questions, I am simply raising pionts for discussion , ...

it is sad that you do not actualy answer questions that are put to you , .....

Do you accept that Bharat Varsha covered a far greater area or not ?

You should look up the word of migration then. When the knowledge of vedam is already there in the bhArat as it is now why talk about bigger bhArat and migration..People move all the time but knowledge of vedam is there in our bhArat as it is now with rishis(aryAs)

 

[kalyan]

there are some present who do not accept Lord Chaitanya to be an expansion of Krsna therefore they canot accept that Nityananda is the Plenary expansion of Sri Krsna Chaitanya , ...or that they are Visnu Tattva likewise Srimati Radharani is an expansion of Krsna

What is expansion ? There is no expansion...why would Krushna expand.? The organizations like Isckon needs to be banned for falsifying and programming people mind by creating false gaudiya guru lineagea and promoting false and creating characters

 

[kalyan]

If I did not, I would have been torn in minutes. Even in Saraswati valley, not all people must have been Aryans. The indigenous people also must have living with them.
Sure, philosophies changed over thousands of years. Upanishad would not have been possible without the admixture of indigenous thought. Whether a Hindu performs a puja or not is immaterial (he can be an atheist Hindu like me, no puja other than shrāddha to be performed in the memory of my known and unknown ancestors), but I would be very happy to see all people learn our scriptures and Sanskrit rather than put their faith in Abrahamic religions which I do not think can compare with the wisdom of Indian religions.Vedas are not even the roots, though they are important for many reasons. The root lies in Shiva, Mother Goddess worship and in the worship of regional Gods, Varāha, Nrisimha, Vāmana, Parashurām, Rāma and Krishna, who later got assimilated in Vishnu. Main-line Hinduism is generally non-Vedic.

@ratikala, Ratiben, I do not share my Krishna with anyone, neither with Mahaprabhu, though I respect him as a great acharya of Hinduism, nor with Nitai. This is my personal opinion, others are welcome to differ; but I wonder when this breaking up of sects into further sects and arising of new prabhus all the time will abate.The pagan religions of Europe - Greek, Slav, Nordic, Germanic, Celtic, Roman, all are product of the Indo-European religion and mythology, and very much Vedic. You find exact equivalent of the Vedic myths in them, like the sky-God, Ourānos (Varuna), the dogs of hades - Kerberos, Cerebrus, one of the dogs of Yama Sarvarā,, the beach who helped Indra find sun - Sarāmā, and Thor hurling his hammer much like Indra hurls his Vajra. Greece had many shades of Vedanta.

@Terese, you must be feeling a little left-out. Yes, Turkey too was totally Aryan. Actually, the Anatolian hypothesis says that it was the original homeland of the Aryans. However, as you perhaps know, I am a believer in the theory that the original homeland of Aryans was somewhere within the Arctic Circle.

Only Brahmin is allowed to do vedic yagnas and if you tamper with that, you are bound to receive nice punishments..

 

[atanu]

Simplistic racial materialistic theories create monster stories out of Vedas, which is a spiritual timeless code of creation.

In Veda, Om is visualised as a four headed bull. Indra's horse has seven heads. Rudra impregnates the prisni cow and generates Maruts. They cut Purusha into pieces and feast on parts. Father pursues daughter and son his mother. Drunkards full of soma write poetry about creation and Brahman.

Veda is replete with teaching of soul-atman and of mind that creates. Veda should not be read by folks whose consciousness is limited to physical body as self.

In the first book itself, Rishi Dirghatma writes the following:

richo akshare parame vyoman yasmin deva adhi vishve nisheduh,
yastanna veda kim richa karishyatiya it tad vidus ta ime samasate ||
(rig veda, 1.164.39)

The rks, reside in the transcendental field or akshara, the highest (parame) etheral Being (vyoman) wherein reside all the adhi vishve deva's (or impulses of creative intelligence, the laws of Nature), responsible for the whole manifest universe. He whose awareness is not open (na veda) to this field, what can the verses accomplish for him? Those who know this level of reality are established in evenness (samasate or rest contented) , in That ( tat or bhuma, fullness-wholeness of life).

 

[Aupmanyav]

Veda is replete with teaching of soul-atman and of mind that creates. Veda should not be read by folks whose consciousness is limited to physical body as self.

Vedas are not for backward-looking superstitious people. They would not get the true meaning, though they can make them into whatever they want to a-la-Swami Dayananda Saraswati.

http://hindunet.org/hindu_history/ancient/aryan/aryan_frawley_1.html
Please evaluate this.

Sorry, Atanu, I am fed up with Frawley and his junk.

 

[atanu]

That is you of course -- A lokyata imposter acting as an advaitin and making fun of Veda as creation of drunk rishis. When you do not see awareness beyond the body one cannot expect you to value the divine words that permeate the indestructible mind space.

richo akshare parame vyoman yasmin deva adhi vishve nisheduh,
yastanna veda kim richa karishyatiya it tad vidus ta ime samasate ||
(rig veda, 1.164.39)

The rks, reside in the transcendental field or akshara, the highest (parame) etheral Being (vyoman) wherein reside vishve devas responsible for the manifest universe. He whose awareness is not open to this field, what can the verses accomplish for him? Those who know this level of reality are established in evenness in That.

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Aupmanyav ji , ...

@ratikala, Ratiben, I do not share my Krishna with anyone, neither with Mahaprabhu, though I respect him as a great acharya of Hinduism, nor with Nitai. This is my personal opinion, others are welcome to differ; but I wonder when this breaking up of sects into further sects and arising of new prabhus all the time will abate.

whilst I am overjoyed to hear a self confessed Atheist say ''my Krsna'', ....I would like to bring your awareness to Krsnas own words , ...in the Bhagavad Gita Krsna himself said , ....

yada yada hi dharmasya
glanir bhavati bharata
abhyutthanam adharmasya
tadatmanam srjamy aham

Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion-at that time I descend Myself. ......Ch..4 V ..7​

no one of us can have Krsna and imprison him to within the limitations of our own opinion !







​

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Kalyan ji , ...

What is expansion ? There is no expansion...why would Krushna expand.?

Thank you prabhu ji for being the cause of my Glorifying your own acharya Sri Ramanuja ji were it not for you I would have had no cause but to look up his own words on this matter , ......Sri Ramanujacharya Ki Jai , ....

SRI
Vaisnava Sampradaya ​

Disciplic Succession to Ramanuja ​

1) LORD KRISHNA

2) Narayana
3) Sri (Laksmi-devi)
4) Nathamuni
5) Yamunacarya
6) Ramanuja

Ramanuja's commentary authorised by the auspices of disciplic succession.
Ramanuja's Commentary on Bhagavad-Gita
Invocation
OM

The Supreme Lord Krishna, the Lord of Sri, whose essential nature is being the sole reservoir of all illustrious attributes and who is the antithesis to all that is evil as exemplified by wisdom and bliss. Who is the great ocean of the infinite, immeasuarble, exalted and innumerable glorious qualities which being part of His natural essence such as omniscience, power, sovereignity, eternality, omnipotence and splendour. Whose transcendental form is a treasure house of effulgence, beauty, lovlieness and perfection; beyond all conceptions, divine, wonderful, everlasting and invincible and sublime being immutable in accordance with His will. He is adorned with countless transcendental ornaments: varieagated, bountiful, marvelous and permanent which are perfection and worthy of Him in every respect. Who is accoutred resplendently with innumerable divine weapons agreeing with His nature, of inconceivable power, invincible, eternal and glorious.

The Supreme Lord Krishna is the beloved of Sri, also known as Laksmi-devi, who is herself quite perfect in all the multitudes of limitless, marvelous and uncountable qualities of divinity such as amiability, compassion, devotion etc. and harmonising in perfect synchronisation with His nature, form, omnipotence, majesty and opulence. He who has at feet constantly eulogizing prayers and singing hymns, countless divine beings; whose essence, being, and phenomenal works are all in accordance with His will. They delight solely in rendering service to Him, posessed as they are with of a multitude of vast, eternal, indestrucible, and sublime attributes far beyond any definitions of words or thoughts.

The Supreme Lord Krishna whose expansions and incarnations have their abode in the transcendental celestial firmament known as Vaikuntha which is indestructible and limitless and which conforms with His nature, which is expansive, unfathomable, endless and opulent. That Vaikuntha of infinite wonder, of infinte glory, of infinite majesty and of infinite omnipotence is eternal and imperishable.

The Supreme Lord Krishna by whose will and pleasure trillions of universes are dramatically displayed by projection in the material substratum in the modes of sustenation and dissolution; the universes so replete with 8,400,000 different species of life and full of so many wonderfully variegated and amazingly phenomenal creations and hosts of enjoyers thereof. He is also to be known by the names of His manifestations such as Brahman and Para Brahman, by any of His incarnations such as Rama and Buddha and by any of His expansions such as Narayana and Vasudeva.

The Supreme Lord Krishna , who is the Ultimate Truth, the Ultimate Consciousness and the Ultimate Personality, having emanated the complete cosmic manifestation from Brahma down to a blade of grass, by His own desire He withdrew within His own Self and was instantaneously completely beyond the material existence and the meditations and adorations of Brahma, the demigods and mortal beings.

The Supreme Lord Krishna being an all pervading ocean of infinite mercy with unlimited compassion, unlimited love and unlimited magnamimity, although completely transcendental to the material existence; simultaneously willed to incarnate in various material forms similar to those of His creation, without compromising His own divine transcendental nature and periodically descends as different incarnations in the material worlds as he so desires.

The Supreme Lord Krishna is always accessible to those by whom He is worshipped and receiving His mercy are granted their desires from artha which is material wealth all the way to moksa which is salvation from material existence and their aspirations are always completely fulfilled.
​

The Supreme Lord Krishna's main purpose for descending and incarnating is to relieve the Earth of any demoniac and negative, undesirable influences that are opposed to spiritual developement; but simultaneously at the same time it is also His incomparable intention to continuously be within reach of all humanity.
To fulfill this purpose He periodically manifests Himself in the material existence so that He becomes an actual reality for all people to consciously see, hear and learn about and He personally performs such phenomenal and extraordinary pastimes that are able to captivate, inspire and enrapture the hearts and minds of all living entities high and low.​

​

please excuse my posting the remainder as it is too beautifull not to be read in full , ...Continued , ......

 

[ratikala]

The Supreme Lord Krishna naturally delights all the worlds who are fortunate enough to learn about Him with His transcendental beauty, His eternal, spiritual form and His extraordinary phenomenal pastimes which are overflowing with the nectar of compassion and love.

The Supreme Lord Krishna under the pretext of having to persuade Arjuna to fight at the battle of Kuruksetra, agreed to accept the position of chariot driver for His devotee and took the oppurtunity to reveal again the eternal and imperishable Bhagavad-Gita which had been lost over the milleniums. By delineating karma yoga and jnana yoga which both when becoming mature blossom into bhakti yoga which is the science of the individual consciousness attaining communion with the Ultimate Cocsciousness by loving devotional service unto the Supreme Lord or through any of His sastrically authorised incarnations revealed in the Vedic scriptures.

The Supreme Lord Krishna fully described the science of bhakti yoga in the middle six chapters of Srimad Bhagavad-Gita and these six chapters reveal the goal of all Vedantic teachings and by which He is irrefutably indicated as the Ultimate Reality, the best object of love for the highest good of all living entities and that loved , He Himself becomes the means to rescue a living entity from all illusory and conditioned existences.

The Supreme Lord Krishna appeared in His original form with a view to shower benefits on the whole Earth and allowing Himself to be overpowered by the great love from His true and faithful devotee Arjuna, gave Himself to him and consenting to his desire undertook the duties as Arjunas charioteer and safely drove his surrendered devotee to victory throughout the 18 day battle of Kuruksetra as witnessed by all the universe which was inaugurated due to King Duryodhana and the Kauravas becoming antagonistic against Arjunas's family known as the Pandavas.

Srimad Bhagavad-Gita begins with the Supreme Lord Krishna driving Arjunas magnificent golden chariot drawn by four milk white horses between the two armies opposed for battle. The dialogue begins with the blind king Dhritarastra, of the enemy Kauravas inquiring about the welfare of his son Duryodhana from Sanjaya, who had been given the power of clairvoyance by incarnation Krsna Dvaipayana Vyasa to see and hear everything that occured on the battlefield as if he was physically present.
​

Thus ends the introduction to the commentary of Srimad Bhagavad-Gita
by Ramanuja.

​

Sri Ramanujacharya Ki jai

 

[ratikala]

namaskaram Kalyan ji

The organizations like Isckon needs to be banned for falsifying and programming people mind by creating false gaudiya guru lineagea and promoting false and creating characters

May I refer you back to the conversations we had recently where upon I produced letters from various Renown Swamis in the Madhava liniaege saying that they accept Gaudiya Vaisnavism as a flowering of the Madhava Sampradaya , ...

this being so you have No right nor position to make any acusations of falsity aganst another Legitimate Sampradaya , ...

 

[Aupmanyav]

whilst I am overjoyed to hear a self confessed Atheist say ''my Krsna'', ....I would like to bring your awareness to Krsnas own words , .. in the Bhagavad Gita Krsna himself said , ..

In a way Krishna made me an atheist by including 'advaita' verses in Srimad BhagadGita. Yes, I am an atheist, but all of them, Rama, Krishna, Vishnu, Shiv, Devi, Ganesha, Kartikeya, Hanuman, Mother Ganges, Mother Cauvery, Mother Narmada, Mother Godavari, they are all mine. The soil of this country has formed me. The soil of this country will accept back what is left after I cease to exist.

Well, it is well documented that the tenth avatara of Lord Vishnu will happen after 426,000 and so many years later towards the end of Kaliyuga. I cannot accept anyone as avatara earlier than that. I do not like avataras popping up without prior information. We have to wait, not get impatient, the pitcher is not full as yet, Kaliyuga has to show us more of its darker colors, and we should bravely tolerate it without being disturbed. After all Kali has divine sanction. BG 2.14

 

[निताइ dasa]

Hari Hari! Nitai Gaura Haribol! Everyone, let us remember to be civil with each other, and respect each other's view

Ratiben, I do not share my Krishna with anyone, neither with Mahaprabhu, though I respect him as a great acharya of Hinduism, nor with Nitai.

Hahahaha good one Aupmanyav ji. I like your Bhava. If I may differ; Sri Krsna is the sole property of His devotees. If you are His devotee, then He is yours, otherwise He remains very far.

"sadhavo hridayam mahyam
sadhunam hridayam tv aham
mad-anyat te na jananti
naham tebhyo manag api" (Srimad Bhagavatam)

(Sri Hari said): "I always exist in the heart of the Sadhu's and therefore they always exist in My heart. Because they do not recognise anyone other than Me, I do not recognise anyone other than them"

The Lord is controlled by His devotees. In Vrndavana, whatever the Gopis say, Krsna is forced to do. In the Damodara Lila Yashoda Maa sometimes catches Krsna and binds Him to a mortar pot. Though Sri Krsna is crying and angry and wants to escape He cannot, because the rope which binds Him is not any ordinary rope, but the Love of Yashoda Maa. That is why Satyavrata Muni prays:

"namas te ‘stu dāmne sphurad-dīpti-dhāmne
tvadīyodarāyātha viśvasya dhāmne
namo rādhikāyai tvadīya-priyāyai
namo ‘nanta-līlāya devāya tubhyam"

" O Lord Damodara, I first of all offer my obeisances to the brilliantly effulgent rope which binds Your belly. I then offer my obeisances to Your belly, which is the abode of the entire universe. I humbly bow down to Your most beloved Srimati Radharani, and I offer all obeisances to You, the Supreme Lord, who displays unlimited pastimes."

Ultimately the Lord is situated within us as the Paramatma, always guiding us and experiencing all our pains and misery. Everything he does is out of His infinite compassion for u.

Veda is replete with teaching of soul-atman and of mind that creates. Veda should not be read by folks whose consciousness is limited to physical body as self.

Espeicially since we only have a very small portion of the Vedas written by Srila Veda Vyasaji available, reading the Vedas independently of the Smrti will only lead to misinformation

The organizations like Isckon needs to be banned for falsifying and programming people mind by creating false gaudiya guru lineagea and promoting false and creating characters

No Vaishnav would make such criticisms against a fellow Sampradaya who also try and worship Lord Hari and spread His holy Name.

Only Brahmin is allowed to do vedic yagnas and if you tamper with that, you are bound to receive nice punishments..

Yeah only Brahmins can do Yagna, but the point is that Brahmin is not simply based on Birth. If one has the qualities of a Brahmin (peaceful, honest, pure etc) then one is allowed to take upasayanam and perform Yagna. Certain Yagnas like the Sankirtan Yagna can be formed by anyone of any varna, gender or lifestyle.

this being so you have No right nor position to make any acusations of falsity aganst another Legitimate Sampradaya , ..
.

Nitai Gaur Haribol! Kalyanji is simply trying to rile us up, I mean we have already given him all the evidence for our position, and if he still doesn't want to accept then it is up to him

 

[ratikala]

prabhu ji

the information is there you just have to read it with an open mind , ...

yada yada hi dharmasya
glanir bhavati bharata
abhyutthanam adharmasya
tadatmanam srjamy aham

Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion-at that time I descend Myself. ......Ch..4 V ..7​

​

YadA ...Whenever , ......you think the Supreme lord needs to tell us , ...he says whenever , ...do your wife or your children have to make an appointment to see you or will you you be there for them when ever they cry out for your help ???

 

[Aupmanyav]

In the first book .. fullness-wholeness of life).

I think I have posted my answer to your post in another topic. Here is the link: http://www.religiousforums.com/thre...ledge-of-the-vedas.183338/page-2#post-4581902

@ratikala, Ratiben, no more avataras for me till the end of Kaliyuga for me, and if we talk in advaita language, then find avatara even in a dog or a stone, simply nothing other than Brahman.