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Historicity of Bible

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
Unfortunately, none of it serves as "evidence of the authenticity of Abraham."
I thought it was obvious from your exchange with @Justanatheist that the question debated in this thread was the authenticity of the descriptions of Abraham's life. Do we have actual evidence for Abraham himself? Not right now, but on the other hand, we now know that the way his life is described in the text falls in line with that of the MBA (Middle Bronze Age) Middle-Eastern nomad, which is not likely info that would have been known by people in the Iron Age.
Did I misunderstand what you meant with "evidence of the authenticity of Abraham"?
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
I thought it was obvious from your exchange with @Justanatheist that the question debated in this thread was the authenticity of the descriptions of Abraham's life.
And I think it should be obvious that "Abraham's life" and "Abraham's culture" are far from the same thing. Do we really need to return to a discussion of Dorothy, Toto, and farm life in Kansas in the late 1930's?

Did I misunderstand what you meant with "evidence of the authenticity of Abraham"?
Evidence of Abraham would be evidence of Abraham.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
And I think it should be obvious that "Abraham's life" and "Abraham's culture" are far from the same thing. Do we really need to return to a discussion of Dorothy, Toto, and farm life in Kansas in the late 1930's?


Evidence of Abraham would be evidence of Abraham.
Fine then.
What did you think about the camels?
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
We have no way of knowing if that is an historical event.
Ok how could you know if a historical event happened? What kind of evidence would you accept?


BTW the crucifixion of Jesus is accepted by nearly all historians as a historical event, so what type of secret knowledge do you have, that historians are missing?
 

Jim46

Member
I guess scripture inspires me because of what it tells us about the past....we know where we came from...why we are here, what went wrong, and what will happen in the future to make everything right again. It inspires hope and gives comfort....along with giving us things to aspire to spiritually. Scripture is a wonderful gift...;)
Even if your scripture does all that, I don't see any reason in that for thinking that everything in the stories actually happened exactly in exactly the way the stories say. In fact, I think that a perfectly accurate description of what happened would detract from those purposes.
 

lukethethird

unknown member
Ok how could you know if a historical event happened? What kind of evidence would you accept?


BTW the crucifixion of Jesus is accepted by nearly all historians as a historical event, so what type of secret knowledge do you have, that historians are missing?
I'm not aware of any historians that accept the crucifixion as an historical event, plenty of theologians but not historians.
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
I'm not aware of any historians that accept the crucifixion as an historical event, plenty of theologians but not historians.
..
well the good news is that you have the oportunity to learn somethign new

from wikipedia
Standard historical criteria have aided in evaluating the historicity of the gospel-narratives,[10][11] and two events subject to "almost universal assent" are that Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist and was crucified by order of the Roman Prefect Pontius Pilate
Historicity of Jesus - Wikipedia
 

leroy

Well-Known Member
Of course, like I said, theologians.
The article that I quoted is talking about historians. It even quotes atheist historians.

Besides if a “theologian” is qualified and used proper historical methodology , you should take his opinion seriously it´s arrogant to disqualify someone just because he is a theologian.
 

lukethethird

unknown member
The article that I quoted is talking about historians. It even quotes atheist historians.

Besides if a “theologian” is qualified and used proper historical methodology , you should take his opinion seriously it´s arrogant to disqualify someone just because he is a theologian.
A Christian institutionalized echo chamber, how impressive.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I'm not aware of any historians that accept the crucifixion as an historical event, plenty of theologians but not historians.
Well if some degrees are sourced back to some theological college or seminary.....

It's not surprising to see the conclusions.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Even if your scripture does all that, I don't see any reason in that for thinking that everything in the stories actually happened exactly in exactly the way the stories say. In fact, I think that a perfectly accurate description of what happened would detract from those purposes.
You can think whatever you like.....that is why we have free will....
There is one truth and our judge is the one who teaches it. He knows who is obedient to that truth and who is not.

My mother is a ‘nominal’ “Christian”......it’s something she puts on a piece of paper if asked what religion she follows. She has not set foot inside a church for over 60 years except to attend weddings and funerals. She tells me that if you live a good life and don’t do harm to anyone, that you are right with God and you will go to heaven. That is what she believes....but is that what Jesus taught?

There are two main criteria that those who are “saved” must fulfill....
Mark 12:28-31...
28 One of the scribes who had come up and heard them disputing, knowing that he had answered them in a fine way, asked him: “Which commandment is first* of all?” 29 Jesus answered: “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah, 30 and you must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind and with your whole strength.31 The second is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.

These two commands form the basis of all the commands that God gave his people. Unless you fulfill the first one, the second one just makes you a good humanitarian, not a good Christian. God wants our heart-felt love, not just our blind obedience. Mindless performance is not what he requires.....if we know him, we will see the wisdom in all that he commands us. We have to be “doing” what God commands....not just refraining from doing evil. (Matthew 7:21-23)

Unless you know the God of the Bible, (Jehovah) you cannot love him and foster the will to apply his laws without feeling as if they are too difficult, or unfair.....rather he wants us to appreciate his commands as a very beneficial part of life. (1 John 5:3)

Our sinful minds and bodies are selfish and God’s laws work against our self-centeredness, so it takes time to train a conscience to respond to God’s commands from the heart....knowing that they are for our good and the good of those around us. God is not the fun police.....he is trying to teach us how to control our selfish desires so that others are not damaged by our actions....physically, mentally, emotionally or spiritually.
Free will when it is abused, causes harm in all those areas.

Following through on all the teachings of Jesus Christ, (whose teachings originated with his God) will draw us closer to his Father, who then becomes our Father. This life is our opportunity to show God who we are, and what kind of citizens we will make in his Kingdom...the one Jesus taught us to pray for. (Matthew 6:9-10)

Those who qualify will enter that Kingdom, but those who are disqualified will suffer eviction.....that is what I believe the Bible teaches.
 
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