History hates lovers

[VoidCat]

Let's make a list of lovers that definitely weren't straight that historians call just friends but the evidence such as letters shows they were much more then that. I'll start.

Alexandar Hamilton and John Laurens

Edit: evidence they were lovers here:
The Letters: 1779-1782 · Alexander Hamilton and John Laurens: 1779-1782 · OutHistory: It's About Time (link embedded)
Alexander wrote to John in a letter

Cold in my professions, warm in [my] friendships, I wish, my Dear Laurens, it m[ight] be in my power, by action rather than words, [to] convince you that I love you. I shall only tell you that 'till you bade us Adieu, I hardly knew the value you had taught my heart to set upon you. Indeed, my friend, it was not well done. You know the opinion I entertain of mankind, and how much it is my desire to preserve myself free from particular attachments, and to keep my happiness independent on the caprice of others. You sh[ould] not have taken advantage of my sensibility to ste[al] into my affections without my consent. But as you have done it and as we are generally indulgent to those we love, I shall not scruple to pardon the fraud you have committed, on condition that for my sake, if not for your own, you will always continue to merit the partiality, which you have so artfully instilled into [me].[2

 

[VoidCat]

Emily Dickinson and Susan Gilbert

Emily Dickinson’s Electric Love Letters to Susan Gilbert (link embedded)

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I often wonder what would have happened had Bram Stoker and Walt Whitman actually met:

“Dracula” Author Bram Stoker’s Extraordinary Love Letter to Walt Whitman

 

[Subduction Zone]

The timing of some of the ads here. One, it is gone now, had John Travolta in drag.

And we can't have gay founding fathers!

 

[Watchmen]

Let's make a list of lovers that definitely weren't straight that historians call just friends but the evidence such as letters shows they were much more then that. I'll start.

Alexandar Hamilton and John Laurens

Edit: evidence they were lovers here:
The Letters: 1779-1782 · Alexander Hamilton and John Laurens: 1779-1782 · OutHistory: It's About Time (link embedded)
Alexander wrote to John in a letter

What part of Hamilton’s letter do you think is evidence that him and Laurens were “lovers”?

 

[VoidCat]

The timing of some of the ads here. One, it is gone now, had John Travolta in drag.

And we can't have gay founding fathers!

Is this a bad time to mention Abe lincoln may or may not have been queer? It's a topic heavily debated by some scholars

 

[VoidCat]

What part of Hamilton’s letter do you think is evidence that him and Laurens were “lovers”?

Im sorry if you didn't pick up on it from the part i quoted that's on you.

But what part of this reads straight to you?

You sh[ould] not have taken advantage of my sensibility to ste[al] into my affections without my consent. But as you have done it and as we are generally indulgent to those we love, I shall not scruple to pardon the fraud you have committed, on condition that for my sake, if not for your own, you will always continue to merit the partiality, which you have so artfully instilled into [me].[2

If you go to the link there's more but I just quoted that part.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Is this a bad time to mention Abe lincoln may or may not have been queer? It's a topic heavily debated by some scholars

There have been more than a few. By today's standards he certainly looks gay,but I have also seen the "language of the time" argument. And having slept outside in a Minnesota winter (camping). I can see why men could easily share a bed.

 

[VoidCat]

There have been more than a few. By today's standards he certainly looks gay,but I have also seen the "language of the time" argument. And having slept outside in a Minnesota winter (camping). I can see why men could easily share a bed.

Yeah I know. It's highly debated.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yeah I know. It's highly debated.

It does not matter to me if he was. We do know that if he was gay that historians of the past would have done their best to cover it up.

 

[Watchmen]

Im sorry if you didn't pick up on it from the part i quoted that's on you.

But what part of this reads straight to you?


If you go to the link there's more but I just quoted that part.

Seems to me this is just part of a growing trend to take older writings, affectionate writings no doubt where men were more able and willing to express feelings, and “ship” two people even though the writing is not actually expressing romantic or sexual love.

 

[VoidCat]

Seems to me this is just part of a growing trend to take older writings, affectionate writings no doubt where men were more able and willing to express feelings, and “ship” two people even though the writing is not actually expressing romantic or sexual love.

That's your opinion. Personally reading it it seems unusual the writing for the time.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Seems to me this is just part of a growing trend to take older writings, affectionate writings no doubt where men were more able and willing to express feelings, and “ship” two people even though the writing is not actually expressing romantic or sexual love.

That could be. One thing that supports that claim is that those times were very homophobic. And gay men at that time would likely be both afraid and ashamed since society portrayed their actions as wrong. One would not be too likely to keep writing about such affairs in letters that could possibly be read by anyone. A more likely example to me would be the apostle Paul who mentioned a sin that he was very ashamed of and never was specific about. Combined with his writings about homosexual men he appears to be the classic latent homosexual homophobe.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's your opinion. Personally reading it it seems unusual the writing for the time.

One would need a wide collection of letter of that time to judge appropriately. I personally do not have access to that. But historians would. They would be the people to ask.

 

[VoidCat]

One would need a wide collection of letter of that time to judge appropriately. I personally do not have access to that. But historians would. They would be the people to ask.

Good point. I also might've mixed up time periods in my head

 

[VoidCat]

Seems to me this is just part of a growing trend to take older writings, affectionate writings no doubt where men were more able and willing to express feelings, and “ship” two people even though the writing is not actually expressing romantic or sexual love.

I do have a question. What proof you have this is a trend? Cuz I don't even hear about gay people spoke about in history let alone letters being misconstrued

 

[Subduction Zone]

I do have a question. What proof you have this is a trend? Cuz I don't even hear about gay people spoke about in history let alone letters being misconstrued

I have heard these claims for at least thirty years, so I do not think that it is any sort of trend.

 

[Watchmen]

I do have a question. What proof you have this is a trend? Cuz I don't even hear about gay people spoke about in history let alone letters being misconstrued

Subduction Zone is right. These claims have been around for decades. They were certainly around when I was an English major and we regularly read such letters. It’s my personal belief that there’s been a recent increase in such claims.

And Google is your friend. I’m confident there’s a lot there about the topic.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Emily Dickinson and Susan Gilbert

Emily Dickinson’s Electric Love Letters to Susan Gilbert (link embedded)

I didn’t know Emily Dickinson had been in love with a woman. It makes sense though, and could explain why a young woman of her generation and social class never married.

She was an extraordinary poet, quite unique and way ahead of her time. Thanks for the link.