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Holy week approaches-- I'm feeling UUer

D

des

Active Member
Hi,

Well I noticed in the church calendar that holy week with it's Ash Thursday (or is that Wednesday), Palm Sunday, etc etc etc is here early this year.
I think I'm feeling more Unitarian than Considering Christ.

OTOH we had an awesome service Sunday in celebration of black women, someone did a poem and her children sang an African story folk song, then we sang We Shall Overcome. THough I thought it wasn't quite right we didn't link hands to do it. Sadly the poem isn't online (well probably is, I don't know who wrote it, but it isn't on our website).

But I think we are going to be less Unitarian starting next week...

--des
 
lilithu

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Green Gaia said:
¿qué?
Click to expand...
I think des is saying that as Holy Week apporaches, the UCC get more and more (trinitarian) Christian. :p

Poor des, hang in there, lol.
 
D

des

Active Member
Yes, lilithu is right. You could have gone to our service last week, and except for a couple of the hymns and the stained glass (though I understand you might find that in New England), you might have thought it was a UU service. In fact, UCC doesn't particularly get into the trinity and various doctrines like substitutional atonement and so on that I find quite distasteful. (In fact, I would doubt too many people really believe in some of them. UCC is a nondoctrinal church, in that you don't have to ascribe to certain doctrinal points to belong, and there is a range of beliefs that would include beliefs common in UU.)

However, during holy week it starts seeming like a regular Christian church, indistinguishable from Presbyterians, Methodists , etc.
Perhaps I should say that if I am a Unitarian Considering Christ, I am considering Christ a lot less these days.

I have a best buddy who is UU, so I told her I would be tagging along.
So don't feel too bad. I would leave UCC but for the feeling of community I have there, I think. There are other aspects I prefer as well. Anyway, I sat around last week during coffee hour and talked theology with a couple 70s something women for about an hour. One went to theology seminary in Chicago and is thoroughly liberal as I am.

Anyway, I feel pretty comfortable right here. Perhaps going to the UU church I'll start feeling more at home there as well. I went a few weeks ago, and someone said that there were people that went back and forth.
At least I don't feel bound by fund raising drives at both churches yet. :)



--des
 
lilithu

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
des said:
Anyway, I feel pretty comfortable right here. Perhaps going to the UU church I'll start feeling more at home there as well. I went a few weeks ago, and someone said that there were people that went back and forth.
At least I don't feel bound by fund raising drives at both churches yet. :)
Click to expand...
Well des, it's only the West that thinks you have to choose one or the other. In the Asian tradition you can be as many religions as you have interest in. In fact, I participate in a UU church and a Buddhist temple, and when I'm on campus at my Catholic university I sometimes go to services there as well. I know other UUs who do similarly, for example going to both Shul on the Sabbath and church on Sundays. No prob. :)
 
D

des

Active Member
You're right of course. So Western of me. I think in various parts of the world this is s.o.p. (standard operating proceedure). Latin America combines various ancestorial worship with Catholicism. In Africa there are various forms of animism and Christianity, and Native Americans have a NA church that is a combo of Native religions and Christianity. So maybe it is culturally atypical but there is nothing intrinsically wrong with it.

Of course, I think it is a little more common nowadays. I have heard of Buddhist Christians, etc. My friend, who is about as totally UU as can be, says she hates UU at Christmas and is really only happy at her old Episcopal church.

I could just embrace my internal apparent "conflicts" here. I'm going to contemplate that one... Of course, I'm not even sure if the conflict is with me at all, I am pretty sure what I think (I think), but I want some combination of both styles of practice. It will be interesting to see if I feel I will be able to fit into both communities or if this is stretching things out too much for my social abilities (that aren't considerable!). One thing I feel very strongly for is for church and the sense of community, that is sort of bigger than you are. (If this all makes sense.)



Thanks,

--des

lilithu said:
Well des, it's only the West that thinks you have to choose one or the other. In the Asian tradition you can be as many religions as you have interest in. In fact, I participate in a UU church and a Buddhist temple, and when I'm on campus at my Catholic university I sometimes go to services there as well. I know other UUs who do similarly, for example going to both Shul on the Sabbath and church on Sundays. No prob. :)
Click to expand...
 
lilithu

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
des said:
Yes, lilithu is right. You could have gone to our service last week, and except for a couple of the hymns and the stained glass (though I understand you might find that in New England), you might have thought it was a UU service.
Click to expand...
Unitarian Universalist stained glass windows. They ain't just in New England. :)

http://www.uurockford.org/rehnberg.htm
http://www.bertc.com/subfour/arlington.htm
http://www.bertc.com/subfour/first_toronto.htm
http://www.uuworld.org/spirit/articles/1836.shtml
http://www.uuwinnipeg.mb.ca/history_windows.shtml


des said:
One thing I feel very strongly for is for church and the sense of community, that is sort of bigger than you are. (If this all makes sense.)
Click to expand...
Absofrickinlutely. :)
 
BrandonE

BrandonE

King of Parentheses
D

des

Active Member
lilithu said:
Unitarian Universalist stained glass windows. They ain't just in New England. :)

http://www.uurockford.org/rehnberg.htm
frickinlutely. :)
Click to expand...

I really love this one!!!

BTW, I just want to say, thanks for all your comments.

I'm sorry that I get harrassed in here by some Christian for not being enough of one. Actually maybe not one, depending. It is nice to have a safe place to share your feelings and ideas. I feel pretty sure that this is against the rules, but when I went to post a complaint I didnt' actually think it fit the qualifications for a complaint.


--des
 
lilithu

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
des said:
I really love this one!!!
Click to expand...
Yeah, me too, which is why I put that link at the top. :) I actually have a replica of that window as a lapel pin.

If anyone else has pics or links to pics of UU stained glass windows, pleast post them! I think I'm starting a collection. (Hmm...perhaps I should start a new thread for this?)


des said:
I'm sorry that I get harrassed in here by some Christian for not being enough of one. Actually maybe not one, depending. It is nice to have a safe place to share your feelings and ideas. I feel pretty sure that this is against the rules, but when I went to post a complaint I didnt' actually think it fit the qualifications for a complaint.
Click to expand...
The DIRs are off-limits for proselytzing so it fits for a complaint. It's possible that the person didn't notice that this thread was in a DIR forum. I've done that myself. :eek: But my understanding is that the person won't necessarily get in trouble just because you report the post. Still, I understand your reluctance.

Try to not let that sanctimonious silliness bother you. Very glad to have you with us des. :)
 
Green Gaia

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
lilithu said:
I think des is saying that as Holy Week apporaches, the UCC get more and more (trinitarian) Christian. :p

Poor des, hang in there, lol.
Click to expand...
Ah I see! The Christian tradition I grew up didn't recognize Holy Week. Easter was remembered, but that was about it. I've learned more about it being a UU than I did in the Christian demonination of my childhood!

Last year we did a A UU service of Tenebrae I don't know if there are plans to do the same this year, I haven't heard.
 
lilithu

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Green Gaia said:
Ah I see! The Christian tradition I grew up didn't recognize Holy Week. Easter was remembered, but that was about it. I've learned more about it being a UU than I did in the Christian demonination of my childhood!
Click to expand...
I must confess that even tho I reject the entire notion of substitutionary atonement I love holy week. To me it's an amazing story of existential choice. Jesus knows that by continuing to teach what he's teaching he's inevitably going to run afoul of the authorities and possibly cost him his life. (By his time there was already a long history of the Roman authorities crucifying rabblerousers.) But he continues anyway, because he believes in social justice and God's love for ALL. Tensions mount, culminating in Good Friday and the Garden of Gethsemane, where Jesus is alone and afraid. Clearly human. Not the omniscient God incarnate that we see in much of the gospel of John. Clearly human, talking to a God with whom he feels so intimate that he calls him Abba (father), asking if he can be excused from what his conscience calls him to do. And then... resolving to go thru with it to the end, whatever may come.

Every year (actually, more often that that) I think of this story and wonder, if push comes to shove, whether I would have the strength to stand up for what's right even when my life is in danger. Even when I'm afraid of being ostracized, alone, hurt... Can I be like this divine human? That's what the passion story means to me.
Green Gaia said:
Last year we did a A UU service of Tenebrae I don't know if there are plans to do the same this year, I haven't heard.
Click to expand...
We do a Tenebrae service every Good friday, complete with communion! lol.

My guess is that our Tenebrae service is more Christian than yours. No substitutionary atonement, mind you, but definately focused on Jesus, and the descent into darkness and mourning for his loss. In preparation for the joy of Easter Sunday when light triumphs over darkness, good over evil, justice over oppression.
 
D

des

Active Member
I see the proselitizing post and my immediate response was deleted so i guess it was noticed for what it was. It just irritated me and I was not hurt.
I actually thought it was a little funny that he completely missed the point-- thought I was heading to UU for a dose of Christianity. LOL!

I guess my response to holy week has been more extreme this year than previously. I feel I have to say (or not say) quite a bit more stuff than usual. In the past, I don't know what happened, we had programs that were interesting. A couple years ago, we teamed up wtih Disciples of Christ (described btw as less trinitarian) and another congregation and did a no. of special services including a Taize, which was quite neat. Also we had some educational services. At another church we had an issue which we studied thru the week. One year it was WW2, which was memorable. By accident, I attended a Maundry Thursday service which is just about as heavy as it can be. But funny thing. At the same time, the church had a gay square dancing club. So here we are with the solemn music and themes and then you hear the "Swing your partner round and round!" and Promenade! It just cracked me up, and I kept finding myself laughing about it for weeks.

I think if it were examined certain ways then it might be different. The pastor himself, though gay, came from a Lutheran church (ELCA). They told him he could only preach if he were celebate ("that's no fun" was his comment to me). Anyway you can take the guy out of the Lutherans but you can't take the Lutherans out of the guy. So his take is much more typically Christian and so on. Even though he has loosened up and gives sermons now that you would never hear at a Lutheran church, this is the time of year when his more conservative past catches up with him. I think he believes Jesus is God. This doesn't really get played out too much ordinarily as it is more what Jesus does that gets the emphasis, except now. I like the music. Actually might go to the Easter service, I'm not sure.


BTW, I have been thinking of doing two weeks at the UU and two weeks at the UCC. I might try something like that. Of course, I don't go quite every week.


--des
 
D

des

Active Member
This isn't UU and it isnt' stained glass but I thought you might like this. This is my UCC church and the banners we have by the altar-- also the Christmas pagent which has some quite neat art work (a very pregnant Mary) and really happy kids.

http://www.swcp.com/~fcc/special.htm

--des
 
D

des

Active Member
In fairness, it isn't all substutional atonement. I think the pastor might have a riot on his hands what with all the highly educated and opinionated types (and I am not even counting myself!). For instance, last year one of the sermons was on the money changers in the temple (gosh the way it has been trivilized in another thread and area).

I guess my tolerance of this holy week sort of thing is at a way all time low. And ever reciting (or being presented with reciting) something I dont' believe.

--des

lilithu said:

We do a Tenebrae service every Good friday, complete with communion! lol.

My guess is that our Tenebrae service is more Christian than yours. No substitutionary atonement, mind you, but definately focused on Jesus, and the descent into darkness and mourning for his loss. In preparation for the joy of Easter Sunday when light triumphs over darkness, good over evil, justice over oppression.
Click to expand...
 
D

des

Active Member
Actually thanks for asking. But I should have posted before. I went to Easter Sunday. The sermon focused almost entirely on the "strange turn that Christianity has taken in giving up on the message of Jesus' life and words and being stuck in the crucifixion". I talked to the pastor afterwards, and after he said he missed me around, I said that frankly I was not so comfortable with some of the stuff around Holy week(s). He said he was quite aware that there were differing views so he tries to write sermons that are inclusive of various views. (Which he succeeded nicely at, btw-- and I said so). Also said I had been to the UU church. He said he had also (he was kicked out of the Lutheran ECLA for being openly gay). I can't quite imagine as he has changed, even preached on sort of a universalist but literal heaven a couple years ago.I can't imagine this today. Of course, I think I might be going further to the left (if that is the direction I am going?) But anyway, I don't think anyone actually cares. There are plenty of people who are every bit as rebellious and questioning and so forth as I am and several of them are decades older.

Anyway, I have gotten quite a lot more comfortable in my UCC identity. I am a uu at least in lower case, but I am not sure I would be comfortable in the huge UU here. The church I go to has a wonderful community that makes me happy just to be a part of. As I was walking out of church two weeks ago, I started talking to some visitor. And he said, he had been all over the place, was a member of some other church--something like a messanic Jewish church, and he said this was the first place he had been that he felt that people were actually living what Jesus said and not just talking about it.

I'll be back to the UU church now and again for sure. And this is definitely the most comfortable place for me on this forum.

--des
 
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