Homeowners Associations - the new fascism?

[Stevicus]

Woman takes on HOA with marijuana signs

TUCSON, AZ (Tucson News Now) - 66-year-old Helene Feinerman is in a legal battle with the exclusive River Ranch Homeowners Association on Tucson’s far east side.

An aging hippie, who displays “hipi” on her license plate, and a former protester, she believes the HOA is harassing her.

“Singling me out and treating me differently than the other homeowners,” she said.

The problem began last spring when Feinerman put up two, three-inch lighted plastic dragonflies in her front yard.

The HOA, she says, told her she would have to ask permission to put them in the front yard. She has them in her back yard also.

Without the written permission, and as a form of protest, the dragonflies went back up after 30 days where they remain today.

In the meantime, she says she put up a marijuana sign in her window as a tribute to her late mother whose birthday was 4/20.

4/20 is considered a marijuana holiday which Feinerman says she celebrates. The sign says “Happy 4/20.”

She was issued one of the state’s first medical marijuana cards in 2012 because of her near debilitating rheumatoid arthritis.

But the HOA said that too had to come down.

“They can tell you what do to in your yard, they can tell you what color to paint your house,” she said. “I don’t think people are going to want homeowner’s (associations) to control what’s going on inside your house.”

The HOA sent a letter to the members asking them to sign approving or disapproving of the change. It needs 75 percent approval to go into effect.

Calls to the present members of the HOA went unanswered but the former president weighed in.

“You don’t jump into CC&Rs to make a change to go after a single homeowner,” said Larry Blount, the former president. “That’s the problem here.”

He believes that going after Feinerman for the signs raises another issue.

“I think that’s a first amendment issue and the board should step away and be quiet," he said. Still he thinks a compromise can be reached where the homeowner moves the dragonflies to be in compliance and the board drops its complaints on the signs.

I was wondering what others thought about HOAs. Should they be banned? I hear of stories like this all the time. There have also been times where someone wanted to fly a flag and was told they could do it. Does it infringe on property rights? It's not like these people are renting someone else's property. Once they buy it, it's theirs to do with what they will. How can there be any such thing as "CC&Rs" in a country which claims to champion "property rights"?

And if it's okay for HOAs to do this, why not the government?

 

[Sanzbir]

Woman takes on HOA with marijuana signs

I was wondering what others thought about HOAs. Should they be banned? I hear of stories like this all the time. There have also been times where someone wanted to fly a flag and was told they could do it. Does it infringe on property rights? It's not like these people are renting someone else's property. Once they buy it, it's theirs to do with what they will. How can there be any such thing as "CC&Rs" in a country which claims to champion "property rights"?

And if it's okay for HOAs to do this, why not the government?

Well, people generally agree to be part of the HOA.

I guess it would depend on whether or not you can freely leave the HOA and terminate your contract with them. If that's allowed (they stop bothering you, you stop paying them, they stop mowing the lawn and letting you use their services) that might be an alright situation.

Otherwise, I think it wouldn't be fascist, but more like a petty direct democracy. The whole "mob-rule-let's-vote-Socrates-to-death-for-the-greater-good" kind of democracy, to be specific. You know, like the villains from Hot Fuzz.

 

[Revoltingest]

Woman takes on HOA with marijuana signs







I was wondering what others thought about HOAs. Should they be banned? I hear of stories like this all the time. There have also been times where someone wanted to fly a flag and was told they could do it. Does it infringe on property rights? It's not like these people are renting someone else's property. Once they buy it, it's theirs to do with what they will. How can there be any such thing as "CC&Rs" in a country which claims to champion "property rights"?

And if it's okay for HOAs to do this, why not the government?

HOAs, like condo associations, are joined voluntarily. And their existence
is all about property rights. But when you join one, you knowingly agree to
limit some of your rights.
Alas, people too often don't perform their due diligence to discover what
they're becoming part of. Some of them are horrible. I should know....I've
managed properties subject to their rules, whims & fancies. And I once
lived in a planned community (Columbia MD). That was a valued learning
experience...never again.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Not all HOA's are voluntary--- if you purchase property within their sometimes draconian (Orwellian?) scope?

You "agree" to abide by their dictatorial behaviors.

Personally, I think they are all bordering on unconstitutional, as the homeowners frequently have no Due Process, nor a right to privacy, etc. You cannot sign away your constitutionally guaranteed rights, at least you are not supposed to be able to.

I have a low opinion of these, as they are typically run by self-entitled busybodies who love poking their unwanted noses into everyone else's business. Typically so that no one looks too closely at theirs.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Not all HOA's are voluntary--- if you purchase property within their sometimes draconian (Orwellian?) scope?

You "agree" to abide by their dictatorial behaviors.

Personally, I think they are all bordering on unconstitutional, as the homeowners frequently have no Due Process, nor a right to privacy, etc. You cannot sign away your constitutionally guaranteed rights, at least you are not supposed to be able to.

I have a low opinion of these, as they are typically run by self-entitled busybodies who love poking their unwanted noses into everyone else's business. Typically so that no one looks too closely at theirs.

One could argue that no one forced them to buy there. If abiding by the rules of the local HOA is a deal breaker for you, buy somewhere else, maybe?

We don't really have HOAs here, so I could be missing something here, but if there's something about a heighbourhood you don't like, not moving to that neighbourhood, rather than trying to change it seems sensible.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not all HOA's are voluntary--- if you purchase property within their sometimes draconian (Orwellian?) scope?

You "agree" to abide by their dictatorial behaviors.

Personally, I think they are all bordering on unconstitutional, as the homeowners frequently have no Due Process, nor a right to privacy, etc. You cannot sign away your constitutionally guaranteed rights, at least you are not supposed to be able to.

I have a low opinion of these, as they are typically run by self-entitled busybodies who love poking their unwanted noses into everyone else's business. Typically so that no one looks too closely at theirs.

If one doesn't like their rules, then tis best to not buy property subject to them.

Note that courts have held some deed restrictions to be illegal, eg,
a ban in perpetuity against selling to a negro, with the sanction being
that property would revert to other heirs.
Other rules cannot be enforced too. I once had a condo association
try to evict my tenant because she had children. Of course, this violated
fair housing laws. The association had to pay my tenant damages.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Woman takes on HOA with marijuana signs







I was wondering what others thought about HOAs. Should they be banned? I hear of stories like this all the time. There have also been times where someone wanted to fly a flag and was told they could do it. Does it infringe on property rights? It's not like these people are renting someone else's property. Once they buy it, it's theirs to do with what they will. How can there be any such thing as "CC&Rs" in a country which claims to champion "property rights"?

And if it's okay for HOAs to do this, why not the government?

The government already does. I received tickets for parking on my own lawn instead of my driveway. Also, whenever my grass grows too high past a certain height, I get an orange door hanger tag giving me a set amount of time before I cut my lawn before the inspector comes over, enters my property and looks to see if I'm compliant with my grass height.

If I leave my garbage can out one day after pickup I get another orange ticket. All cans must be lined and unison with every house in the neighborhood with the back wheels facing my house.

It's part of their "beautification" ordinance.

 

[Revoltingest]

The government already does. I received tickets for parking on my own lawn instead of my driveway. Also, whenever my grass grows too high past a certain height, I get an orange door hanger tag giving me a set amount of time before I cut my lawn before the inspector comes over, enters my property and looks to see if I'm compliant with my grass height.

If I leave my garbage can out one day after pickup I get another orange ticket. All cans must be lined and unison with every house in the neighborhood with the back wheels facing my house.

It's part of their "beautification" ordinance.

And snow removal.
In my town, one can clear sidewalks as required by law.
Then city plows come thru, putting snow back on the sidewalks.
And along comes The Man, ticketing one for unremoved snow.
Don't let the city come to remove it....they overcharge the
bejeezus for the service.

 

[Flame]

HOA.. one of the many reasons I enjoy living in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Revoltingest]

HOA.. one of the many reasons I enjoy living in the middle of nowhere.

And it's best if your local building inspector is a farmer...
...someone who knows that baling wire repairs are code.

 

[Twilight Hue]

HOA.. one of the many reasons I enjoy living in the middle of nowhere.

I really wish I was in nowhere land other than the city.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

The government already does. I received tickets for parking on my own lawn instead of my driveway. Also, whenever my grass grows too high past a certain height, I get an orange door hanger tag giving me a set amount of time before I cut my lawn before the inspector comes over, enters my property and looks to see if I'm compliant with my grass height.

If I leave my garbage can out one day after pickup I get another orange ticket. All cans must be lined and unison with every house in the neighborhood with the back wheels facing my house.

It's part of their "beautification" ordinance.

Gosh!

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

The government already does. I received tickets for parking on my own lawn instead of my driveway. Also, whenever my grass grows too high past a certain height, I get an orange door hanger tag giving me a set amount of time before I cut my lawn before the inspector comes over, enters my property and looks to see if I'm compliant with my grass height.

If I leave my garbage can out one day after pickup I get another orange ticket. All cans must be lined and unison with every house in the neighborhood with the back wheels facing my house.

It's part of their "beautification" ordinance.

Reminds me of the Society under IT, from A Wrinkle In Time...

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

If one doesn't like their rules, then tis best to not buy property subject to them.

Note that courts have held some deed restrictions to be illegal, eg,
a ban in perpetuity against selling to a negro, with the sanction being
that property would revert to other heirs.
Other rules cannot be enforced too. I once had a condo association
try to evict my tenant because she had children. Of course, this violated
fair housing laws. The association had to pay my tenant damages.

I'm not disputing your first sentence, but people are kind of naive when it comes to purchasing property. They foolishly think the actually *own* that property they just "purchased"-- even if they pay cash.

Think you own that lot out in the country? Think again: Try not paying taxes on that, see how long you have before summary eviction.

 

[Quintessence]

Not all homeowner associations are bad or abusive. I'd wager the vast majority of them aren't, but as usual, it's the freaks that get picked up by garbage sensationalist news and then become the center of awareness in people.

In some cases there really isn't a choice about being or not being in an association. Some cities - my own included - have serious problems with the housing market. I live in a college town, which means your options are basically throwing your money away to rental companies who charge outrageous monthly prices, paying at least a quarter of a million dollars for homes that definitely don't warrant that price tag or are way too big for what you need anyway, or having a reasonably affordable condo that's part of an association. In my town, associations are really the only way to go for a first time home buyer because nothing else is affordable. The associations help keep these buildings off the rental market with codes so they areas don't get flooded with college students who have a habit of being both bad neighbors and trashing properties (thus depreciating home values).

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm not disputing your first sentence, but people are kind of naive when it comes to purchasing property. They foolishly think the actually *own* that property they just "purchased"-- even if they pay cash.

Think you own that lot out in the country? Think again: Try not paying taxes on that, see how long you have before summary eviction.

Aye, people should be more careful about purchases.
Real estate can bite one in the arsch.....as it's done to me many times.

Government has the ultimate lein on all real estate.
We only own it at their pleasure.

 

[Valjean]

HOAs, like condo associations, are joined voluntarily. And their existence
is all about property rights. But when you join one, you knowingly agree to
limit some of your rights.
Alas, people too often don't perform their due diligence to discover what
they're becoming part of. Some of them are horrible. I should know....I've
managed properties subject to their rules, whims & fancies. And I once
lived in a planned community (Columbia MD). That was a valued learning
experience...never again.

Sometimes a managed property is your only practical option, though. Like an ISP contract, you have no choice but to click on accept.
Me, I liked living in Colombia.

And it's best if your local building inspector is a farmer...
...someone who knows that baling wire repairs are code.

LOL -- I once got a traffic ticket for using wire to affix a license plate that kept coming loose; took me half an hour to cut the wire off and replace it with screws, license plate was loose again in a few weeks.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sometimes a managed property is your only practical option, though. Like an ISP contract, you have no choice but to click on accept.
Me, I liked living in Colombia.

I discovered that the Architectural Committee gets to say what color I repaint my house there.

LOL -- I once got a traffic ticket for using wire to affix a license plate that kept coming loose; took me half an hour to cut the wire off and replace it with screws, license plate was loose again in a few weeks.

You should see what horrors happen to license plates on trailers.
Wire....fender washers....extra holes....bending....it all happens.

 

[Valjean]

I discovered that the Architectural Committee gets to say what color I repaint my house there.

Yeah, no clotheslines, no swingsets, McD's couldn't put up their golden arches, but it was pretty and uncluttered, wasn't it?

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah, no clotheslines, no swingsets, McD's couldn't put up their golden arches, but it was pretty and uncluttered, wasn't it?

Not nearly as pretty as nearby Ellicott City.
It was rather bland...but I liked the bike paths.
But after I left, I heard that it fell into decline.

I lived on Goodbody Ct, near that pond.
I think that area was called "The Birches" because of the dying birches at the entry.
(Birches don't like that southerly climate.)