Homophobia

[Argentbear]

You don't care about children's rights. Aren't you ashamed?

Your response is completely dishonest and has nothing to do with what was said. God also forbids lying. Aren't you ashamed?

Look around.

not an answer or at least not an honest one

It's like 6th grade again.

yes facts and truth are things taught in 6th grade.

 

[I Am Hugh]

I have never been anti-gay, My mother was very tolerant of peoples sexuality and I was raised accordingly. Beyond a dislike of discrimination and a strong sense of justice I had never thought much about gay issues. That changed this morning. @Shadow Wolf as part of another post wrote,

I never understood the point in being anti-gay. The subject heading "Homophobia" pretty much sums it up if you think about it. Fear of. Fear of what? Being identified as socially deviant? The destruction of the human race? Where I come from males are afraid of being identified as homosexual, whether or not they are. But the heterosexual males are admittedly turned on by lesbian sex if the chicks are hot. Also, it is viewed as the destruction of the human race. Procreation and the breakdown of family, inheritance, marriage, etc. Most of the gays I've known were closeted family men.

"The pride isn't in the sexuality itself, it's standing up to a society that wants to hate us, discriminate against us, repress us and throw us back in the closet."

Pride comes before a fall. Just ask Dylan Mulvany or whatever his name is. What was the beer? Bud Light? I don't care about issues that are politicized or ideologically and emotionally fixated. When I see them, I usually turn away as quickly as possible. Even if the issue at one time was significant in some form its politicization or idealization screws it up. Just leave it. White noise.

I recalled my mother comforting a tearful neighbor. The woman's brother had for most of his short life veered between his drug addiction and alcoholism. While under the influence of drink/drugs he would sometimes behave in ways that got him beaten, often savagely, requiring medical help. In the end it killed him.

That's really unfortunate. My instinctual response is "poor stupid person."

His problem was that he had never been able to handle his father rejecting him. His father hated gays. It was as simple as that.

So yes, people who strive to end such situations have every reason to be proud.

Isn't that what got the guy killed?

 

[Pawpatrol]

That's my point.
You haven't.
You've said a lot of things.
But you've not shown how these things actually personally affect you. You just say they do. But never explain how.

Yes, I have. You missed it. Either scroll back or get over it.

Heterosexual people do many of the same "acts." They're not just reserved for "gay people."

I'm not referring to any specific "acts" but to any homosexual acts - i.e. sexual acts between two men or two women.

Prove it.

That there's only one God? That's easy. If there were many they wouldn't be gods — semi-gods maybe if that was a thing, but God must, by definition, be supreme over all. If he's not, he's not God.

 

[Pawpatrol]

I propose we recognize people as they are- human beings with inherent worth by virtue of existing

No.

Historically the idea folks are burdens has lead to violating people's autonomy and rights.

You do know that a big chunk of the societies today are considered burdens on one way or another? — kids, students, elderly, sick, disabled, lazy.

Anyone who does not give anything worthwhile to the society is in a way burdening it. No doubt about it.

That mugger and those drug addicts likely have family. And while you may argue they don't help society they do not deserve to be seen as burdens to it.

Yes, they do and it should be shoved in their face, perhaps by their own family. The purpose is that they change their bad behavior.

That's how you justify doing inhumane things to such people like cutting off the hand of the mugger for thieving or taking a drug addict and denying them medical treatment in a situation where they are dying because "they don't need to live."

Eh?

It also could lead to blaming crimes on the men being single rather then the root problems

The point I was making was precisely the fact that single men do commit more crimes than married men. Marriage plays a part in keeping some men walking straight.

Like saying that men are more suicidal because they are single rather then acknowldging hey it's actually because we don't allow them proper mental health services, don't allow them to express their emotions openly, encourag men to be violent and only express anger as an emotion instead of learning to properly manage anger etc

I'm repeating myself now but single men are more likely to commit suicide than married men (in the same society, same culture, same everything).

 

[VoidCat]

You do know that a big chunk of the societies today are considered burdens on one way or another? — kids, students, elderly, sick, disabled, lazy.

Anyone who does not give anything worthwhile to the society is in a way burdening it. No doubt about it.

Cool go ahead and kill me then being im disabled. Since im a burden and bring no value. I mean if im a burden then what's the point in living in society?

Everyone gives to society. Everyone has value.


I dont see the point in continuing this convo. You clearly have no idea where your kind of thinking leads

 

[an anarchist]

I dont see the point in continuing this convo. You clearly have no idea where your kind of thinking leads

Yea I was gonna respond to edit: the person being mean, but it’s like feeding oxygen to fire. So I’m gonna stop

 

[VoidCat]

Yea I was gonna respond to edit: the person being mean but it’s like feeding oxygen to fire. So I’m gonna stop

Would you like for me to post the book at least? Maybe other people might enjoy it.

 

[an anarchist]

Would you like for me to post the book at least? Maybe other people might enjoy it.

Don’t let me stop ya! I’m not sure what you are referring to though I may be behind on the thread. Im not going back through it tho lol and I’m editing my insult out in my previous reply maybe if you could do the same ;-; (as in my quoted portion) no worries if not tho I can live with the consequences

 

[VoidCat]

Don’t let me stop ya! I’m not sure what you are referring to though I may be behind on the thread. Im not going back through it tho lol and I’m editing my insult out in my previous reply maybe if you could do the same ;-; (as in my quoted portion) no worries if not tho I can live with the consequences

A Disability History of the United... book by Kim E. Nielsen

I own this book id show a picture but im visiting family and not home.

I edited my post. The book im talking about is the one i kept asking @Pawpatrol. If he wanted me to post because it shows a lot of what happens when you view a group as a burden. It follows disabled people as US history but there's other groups that been affected by eugenics and other consquences from the idea of their group being a burden.

 

[VoidCat]

@Pawpatrol
I'm just going put this last bit of info then leave you alone. Calling people burdens is what we call dehumanization. Dehumanization is the core of many events in history that ended up resulting in acts that harmed lots of people. Be careful with that. That's all im saying. To understand people and solve societial problems we must remember not to dehumanize people. People have value. Thats why we dont go commiting murder or at least most folk don't and see it as wrong to take a life.

 

[Argentbear]

No.

That speaks volumes about you

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

"The pride isn't in the sexuality itself, it's standing up to a society that wants to hate us, discriminate against us, repress us and throw us back in the closet."

Pride comes before a fall. Just ask Dylan Mulvany or whatever his name is. What was the beer? Bud Light? I don't care about issues that are politicized or ideologically and emotionally fixated. When I see them, I usually turn away as quickly as possible. Even if the issue at one time was significant in some form its politicization or idealization screws it up. Just leave it. White noise.

As I constantly try to explain to people -- and as somebody who was already openly gay in the 1960s when we hadn't yet even thought of "Pride" -- LGBTQ+ Pride isn't really about pride at all -- it's about no longer being ashamed of being our natural, authentic selves.

I assure you that shame was absolutely expected of people who were so sinful and misguided as to be anything other than straight. Pride was, when it was first used in 1970 (after Stonewall in New York), our way of saying, "no, we are not ashamed, and we will not accept being told to hide our faces in disgrace."

 

[Subduction Zone]

You don't care about children's rights. Aren't you ashamed?

Where did you get that crazy accusation from? Aren't you ashamed for making false accusations?

Look around.

I see, so you have no evidence. Thank you for admitting your failure.

It's like 6th grade again.

And that would be your fault. I can link the articles on them if you wish. This work has not been done just once. Several researchers have tested this and confirmed it. Your homophobia may arise from your sexual attraction to other men.

I asked, don't you find them disgusting?

You asked another, but I will answer from my perspective. No, I do not. People love each other in all sorts of different ways. And you seem to think that they only practice anal sex when studies show that they have about the same percentage of doing that as straight people.

Actually the supreme is God's law, but your dismissal of the ew factor is strange. Why, you don't think people should consider their instincts a little?

Again, if you want to claim that the burden of proof is upon you. You might want to learn what the burden of proof is and how to support your ideas.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You don't care about children's rights. Aren't you ashamed?

Where in the bluest of blue hells did you get that from?

I asked, don't you find them disgusting?

Clearly many of us here don't.

Do you propose there are many Gods?
Do you consider yourself logical and intelligent?

Monotheism and polytheism aren't the only options. Adding atheism into the mix doesn't even cover it.

Actually the supreme is God's law, but your dismissal of the ew factor is strange. Why, you don't think people should consider their instincts a little?

Instinct? Ew? I love giving oral sex to either. Why would I find it ew? Especially with a lover (rather than just a sex partner) and getting such a deeper and more intimate taste and smell of them? Them having a penis or a vagina doesn't make it gross. How can it possibly be gross to do it with one but not the other?
My instincts tell me not to listen to you.

Anal sex is not an act of love either - do you understand that?

No act of sex is inherently an act of love. A lot of times it's just sex. But when it's with lovers, that's when it's an act of eros, of romantic passions.

Eg. Men, discipline. Women, affection and empathy. More so than the other.

Then why do men tend to lack self control and discipline? Women tend to be better with money, more likely to show restrain, clean more, cook more/eat better, and do juggle a household with a job while the guy goes to work and gets home and sits in front of the TV?
As for empathy, it's an inherent trait we have as social animals. In fact when we lack empathy it's consider an indication of a serious psychiatric disorder. And, again, we can learn that from others. There's no way in Hell I'm the only one who learned more from Mr. Rogers than I did my own parents.

That there's only one God? That's easy. If there were many they wouldn't be gods — semi-gods maybe if that was a thing, but God must, by definition, be supreme over all. If he's not, he's not God.

No, that's just more of a modern Abrahamic look at it. In the past people basically accepted everyone's gods as existing, but they worshiped their own god/s while everyone else did their own thing. And there need be no supreme being over them all. That is the thinking of humans, not the natural order of the World and Cosmos before us.

No.

You said you worship Jesus? Funny then, as he teaches us to love each other and judge ourselves before we judge others.

Yes, they do and it should be shoved in their face, perhaps by their own family. The purpose is that they change their bad behavior.

You don't shove people who are ill. Addicts especially need love, support and a shoulder to cry on. You can't force them, but someone wanting to recover needs the epitome of tender, loving care. Shoving people only serves to shove them away from getting better.

The point I was making was precisely the fact that single men do commit more crimes than married men. Marriage plays a part in keeping some men walking straight.

You cited an article in a specific country where there is no possible way around an abundance of single men because there are significantly more men than women.
In America, where there is enough women for all the men who want one, most single men are single either by choice or because they are a creepy loser and can't get a girlfriend (known as incels). Incels have killed, but those doing it by choice usually aren't out causing problems and not dealing with the frustrations because it is a choice they made.
On this note, what do you think of Paul's advice when he tells people it's best to be like him and unmarried?

You do know that a big chunk of the societies today are considered burdens on one way or another? — kids, students, elderly, sick, disabled, lazy.

Yeah, I call those people ********. People are not a burden just because mainstream society doesn't know how to treat them like decent human beings with different needs.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Instinct? Ew? I love giving oral sex to either. Why would I find it ew? Especially with a lover (rather than just a sex partner) and getting such a deeper and more intimate taste and smell of them? Them having a penis or a vagina doesn't make it gross. How can it possibly be gross to do it with one but not the other?

I confess, I've always found it a bit amusing that so many men find the notion of one man fellating another to be absolutely disgusting -- and yet I don't think I've ever met a man wouldn't greatly enjoy being fellated by his female partner. How, I ask myself, can you say that you love someone, and then ask her to do something that you think is disgusting?

 

[I Am Hugh]

As I constantly try to explain to people -- and as somebody who was already openly gay in the 1960s when we hadn't yet even thought of "Pride" -- LGBTQ+ Pride isn't really about pride at all -- it's about no longer being ashamed of being our natural, authentic selves.

I assure you that shame was absolutely expected of people who were so sinful and misguided as to be anything other than straight. Pride was, when it was first used in 1970 (after Stonewall in New York), our way of saying, "no, we are not ashamed, and we will not accept being told to hide our faces in disgrace."

I don't see how that changes anything that I've said. Let's say I'm homophobic, I want homophobic pride. A parade and everything. I no longer want to hide my homophobic face in disgrace! Pride comes before the fall.

So, my true homophobic nature either has to be hidden, closeted or not according to how sick society is at any given time and that's my true nature. I'm dependent upon how sick or not, depending upon the subjective definition, my society happens to be.

 

[I Am Hugh]

I confess, I've always found it a bit amusing that so many men find the notion of one man fellating another to be absolutely disgusting -- and yet I don't think I've ever met a man wouldn't greatly enjoy being fellated by his female partner. How, I ask myself, can you say that you love someone, and then ask her to do something that you think is disgusting?

I'm talking about swilling ****. What could possibly be disgusting about gulping the micturate of my lover. Who happens to be a horse. It's subjective, you see?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I don't see how that changes anything that I've said. Let's say I'm homophobic, I want homophobic pride. A parade and everything. I no longer want to hide my homophobic face in disgrace! Pride comes before the fall.

So, my true homophobic nature either has to be hidden, closeted or not according to how sick society is at any given time and that's my true nature. I'm dependent upon how sick or not, depending upon the subjective definition, my society happens to be.

I'm sorry, but for me, that's just a little far-fetched. Have you been denied employment, or to rent an apartment because of your homophobia? Are there laws that threaten to put you in jail, or worse, as there were in my country as I grew up and became aware of my orientation -- and as there still are in many places around the world? Do police occasionally beat you up for being homophobic, or do they refuse to assist after you've been "rolled?" How many laws are currently being considered against your homophobia around the nation -- because there are 530 that the ACLU is currently tracking in the U.S. against LGBTQ+ folks. That's now -- today! Ordinary, presumably Christian Americans are working hard to repress rights of "those people." Are they working as hard against you?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I'm talking about swilling ****. What could possibly be disgusting about gulping the micturate of my lover. Who happens to be a horse. It's subjective, you see?

Well, I hope your horse has given informed consent. I think I'm done with this now, thank you.

 

[I Am Hugh]

I'm sorry, but for me, that's just a little far-fetched. Have you been denied employment, or to rent an apartment because of your homophobia?

As you may or may not know, I'm a gay man, and my point was rhetorical. But I've known people in the recent history of occidental culture who have been denied employment or rent for homophobia and racism, etc. In some other cultures the same applies to homosexuality, even punishable by death. It doesn't take any stretch of the imagination in my opinion to see the alternative, i.e. being denied "rights" because of their homophobia.

Are there laws that threaten to put you in jail, or worse, as there were in my country as I grew up and became aware of my orientation -- and as there still are in many places around the world?

Sure. "Hate crimes," they call it. It has merely turned the tables. That's why I don't like these sorts of discussions. Politicized, idealized. If you are gay you should be able to be that. The same if you are homophobic or racist. You can't logically demand rights while denying others the same, no matter how disgusting they are to you.

Do police occasionally beat you up for being homophobic, or do they refuse to assist after you've been "rolled?" How many laws are currently being considered against your homophobia around the nation -- because there are 530 that the ACLU is currently tracking in the U.S. against LGBTQ+ folks. That's now -- today! Ordinary, presumably Christian Americans are working hard to repress rights of "those people." Are they working as hard against you?

Probably. My point is to meet the new boss, the same as the old boss. The "Christian Americans" probably see themselves as victims as well. During the Plandemic did they shut down the gay bars and the churches? Another rhetorical question I have no idea of the answer to, but you see my point?