Homosexuality and religious.

[Trailblazer]

So a married gay couple with children and other relatives are ok?

It is okay by me and Imo it is a lot better than an unmarried heterosexual couple with children.

 

[CG Didymus]

Because if they were in a largely Baha'i society the echo chamber would increase.
As for the 'indoctrinated' part if I recall the Universal House of Justice admits to the use of indoctrination as a valid tool.

In my opinion.

There has already been important, high-standing ex-Baha'is that have complained about a very conservative and authoritarian leadership that, essentially, forced them out of the Faith (Juan Cole). And what others would call "indoctrination", Baha'is probably see as learning about then obeying and following what they believe is God's word. And of course, when they are together, there's going to be an echo chamber. It could very easily get more and more difficult to be a dissenter of the majority opinion.

Even with this discussion... Can a Baha'i really have an opinion that differs from the official Baha'i stance? The worst thing I've heard was that a person in love with a person of the same sex should get a sex change in order to marry that person? And that's one of God's solutions?

 

[Trailblazer]

If a person says "I do not expect anyone else to see black people as inferior, it's just what I believe" - they are still a racist.

I do not see black people as inferior, I see them as equals..

 

[Sheldon]

Because only a man and a woman can bear children.

Men and women don't need to be heterosexual to bear children, try again.

 

[CG Didymus]

Those laws are so bad that no one should. Follow them.

I see that one Baha'i claimed that these laws were good. But again, who's going to follow these laws? Behind closed doors some Baha'is and everybody else in the world are going to have sex and enjoy sex with different people, with their spouse, but in wrong ways, and with people of the same sex and watch other people doing it live or on the internet. Afterwards, some of the Baha'is might feel guilty about it. But will they stop doing it? At best, when they start imposing fines, it will be a good way for the Baha'i Faith to generate funds.

 

[Trailblazer]

How is suppressing their homosexuality in a person's best interests?
(Try to answer without using some form of "because it's god's law")

Because it is exercising self-control and restraint, and the same would apply to a heterosexual suppressing sexual desire.

As Dale said:
"God is calling us to struggle against our animal nature and to become who we truly are: not sexual beings, but spiritual beings who are in control of the physical side of our nature and who can thus find true happiness living in conformity with God’s will."

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Because it is exercising self-control and restraint, and the same would apply to a heterosexual suppressing sexual desire.

As Dale said:
"God is calling us to struggle against our animal nature and to become who we truly are: not sexual beings, but spiritual beings who are in control of the physical side of our nature and who can thus find true happiness living in conformity with God’s will."

Self control and self denial is two different things. I could say that eating chocolate too much is bad for you so you should exercise self control. But understanding that chocolate is unhealthy in large amounts doesn't make a reasonable argument for -always- refusing chocolate. Similarly sex. Why are we asking homosexuals to suppress all sexual desire or heterosexual to suppress all sexual desire?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Because only a man and a woman can bear children.

Lots of heterosexual people never bear children. They're still a family.

 

[CG Didymus]

You don't know that either. You just say it with as much enthusiasm as you can muster.

That sounds so familiar... "I know it's moral" "How?" "Because the rules came from God... through his messenger who speaks for God." "And can you prove that?" "I don't need to. It is my belief. I'm claiming nothing."

Why can't Baha'is come out and plainly say, "We believe these laws are from God. Therefore, we, as Baha'is, believe homosexuals need help. They are sick in the head. But we also think everybody else that breaks the Baha'i moral codes are just as sick. So, it's not only gays. But pretty much everybody in the world, we believe, are sick in the head. Why are they so obsessed with sex? Unless you're married to a person of the opposite sex, it's wrong and evil."

 

[Trailblazer]

No, you have "chosen" to become a Bahai. Since then, you have to accept and obey whatever Bahaullah said. Bahaullah said so and he is god's infallible messenger.

I don't have to accept and obey, I choose to accept and I try to obey.

Whoever came up with this moral judgements, whether it be god or Bahaullah - they are now your moral judgements because you accept whatever judgements Bahaullah made.

I make no moral judgments, only God can do that, and God does so through His Messengers.

It does not mean that you formulated those judgements, you merely hold them. You judge homosexuality to be wrong because Bahaullah told you that it is wrong.

I judge homosexual sex acts as wrong but I do not judge homosexuals.
Did not Jesus say to hate the sin but not the sinner?

Oh no. That is not why I think it is wrong. I think any kind of sex is wrong if it is engaged in out of its proper context, which is marriage between a man and a woman. I believed that long before I ever heard of the Baha'i Faith.

 

[Trailblazer]

It takes a belief devoid of any concept of morality, or any semblance of reason, to compare being gay to raping children.

Who ever compared being gay to raping children?

 

[Trailblazer]

Claiming they're all bad is comparing them

 

[CG Didymus]

I can’t see Baha'is in positions of political power any time soon. Currently, Baha'is avoid political allegiances and partisan politics. They tend not to become members of political parties or run for office.

I'm not talking about political parties. I've known some Baha'is that were very liberal in their beliefs about the Baha'i Faith. And some that were very conservative. One would tend to be easy going about obeying rules, and the other would be much stricter in trying to obey all the rules.

 

[ppp]

And whos call is it to deside? Yours?

Pay attention. Go to a gay bar with a wide age range of clientele. Address the people nearby and lay out your position as a Baha'i about marriage, adoption, family, child rearing, etc to them. Then shut up and listen.

If they are offended, and you don't understand why, then it is you who is the one at fault. It is you who is homophobic.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Pay attention. Go to a gay bar with a wide age range of clientele. Address the people nearby and lay out your position as a Baha'i about marriage, adoption, family, child rearing, etc to them. Then shut up and listen.

If they are offended, and you don't understand why, then it is you who is the one at fault. It is you who is homophobic.

My position is: it is up to them...not up to me to tell them who they can be with. It is NON OF MY BUSINESS

 

[ppp]

My position is: it is up to them..

Judging from your multitude of topical posts on this thread alone that is a false statement.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Judging from your multitude of topical posts on this thread alone that is a false statement.

In my OP about the topic i have tried to get you to understand that I have nothing again homosexual people.

My girlfriend is Bi-sexual for crying out loud

 

[ppp]

In my OP about the topic i have tried to get you to understand that I have nothing again homosexual people.

My girlfriend is Bi-sexual for crying out loud

You had me going. Well played. Ok. I am done taking you seriously.

 

[CG Didymus]

Satan tricked Adam and Eve into eating the fruit too soon, before they were ready. Knowing what is good and what is evil no doubt made it harder to be good. (not knowing was easier)
But for those who want to be disciples of Jesus, we do our best to do the right thing even if it is hard and we fail a lot of the time.

Yeah, I understand that religions need to have their rules of behavior. But how do they get people to obey those rules? When it comes to forbidden sexual behaviors, including homosexuality, they Bible says to stone them to death. Why did Christianity stop stoning people for breaking God's moral laws? The problem for me is... If God thought it was so necessary before, why did he stop demanding it?

 

[Spirit of Light]

You had me going. Well played. Ok. I am done taking you seriously.

No problem because if you continue i put you on ignore