Homosexuality and religious.

[CG Didymus]

Men and women don't need to be heterosexual to bear children, try again.

Except, for some strange reason, Baha'is believe that Jesus was born of a virgin.

 

[CG Didymus]

Then why did he make certain things feel good? Guys often like when you put your finger in their booty.

That's the thing. It feels good, but then God says it's wrong? But now oral sex is okay with God, according to Baha'is? So, a man can go down on a woman. And a woman can go down on a man. But God says it's wrong for a man to go down on a man or a woman to go down on a woman? But when has God saying that some sexual behavior is wrong ever stopped anyone? In general, I know it does stop some people... most of the time. But I would suspect that even some of them give it a try now and then.

 

[CG Didymus]

To over simplify the Word of God is a mistake many make. What makes a word Homophobic is only one's own attitudes and frames of references.

You are trying to fit them into a very narrow agenda and that will never work, it never has from the time of God's first Messenger and will not work ever until the last Messenger. Albeit there is no first and last.

I will offer my wife and I have a son who has a male partner and we Love and support them both.

Your posts are only insulting narrow minded bigotry.

Regards

Here's is what Baha'is believe to be the word of God from Baha'u'llah. Explain it.

"Ye are forbidden to commit adultery, sodomy and lechery. Avoid them, O concourse of the faithful. By the righteousness of God! Ye have been called into being to purge the world from the defilement of evil passions. This is what the Lord of all mankind hath enjoined upon you, could ye but perceive it. He who relateth himself to the All-Merciful and committeth satanic deeds, verily he is not of Me. Unto this beareth witness every atom, pebble, tree and fruit, and beyond them this ever-proclaiming, truthful and trustworthy Tongue."​

Is sex with a person from the same gender included in this? If so, it is forbidden, and God wants you to "purge" the world of the defilement of evil passions. Is homosexuality one of those "evil defilements" that God wants to be purged? And anyone that commits "satanic deeds" is not of me? Is homosexuality one of those "satanic deeds"?

​

Then this...

In a letter dated March 26,1950, written on his behalf, Shoghi Effendi, the authorized interpreter of the Bahá'í Teachings, further explicates the Bahá'í attitude toward homosexuality. It should be noted that the Guardian's interpretation of this subject is based on his infallible understanding of the Texts. It represents both a statement of moral principle and unerring guidance to Bahá'ís who are homosexuals. The letter states: "No matter how devoted and fine the love may be between people of the same sex, to let it find expression in sexual acts is wrong. To say that it is ideal is no excuse. Immorality of every sort is really forbidden by Bahá'u'lláh, and homosexual relationships He looks upon as such, besides being against nature.
​

So, having sex with a person of the same gender is wrong. And it gets lumped in as being an immoral and forbidden act. But there's hope for the person having homosexual relations...

"To be afflicted this way is a great burden to a conscientious soul. But through the advice and help doctors, through a strong and determined effort, and through prayer, a soul can overcome this handicap."
​

That is a big part of all this... Is it an "affliction"? Is it a "handicap" that must be and can be overcome with prayer and the help from doctors? What can a Baha'i say? Only "yes", because that is what your religion tells you is the truth from God.

 

[YoursTrue]

Well, it is so for you because of how you think. I think differently so to me, it makes sense. It is called cognitive relativism.

lol, I love that expression, "cognitive relativism."

 

[Trailblazer]

Then why did he make certain things feel good? Guys often like when you put your finger in their booty.

Maybe God made them feel good so we could practice giving up what feels good and turn to Him instead.
It's all in the Bible.

Matthew 16:23-26 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

The way I interpret those verses is that Jesus was not talking to a real entity called Satan; Jesus was saying to Peter that the things that are not of God but are rather of men (selfish desires) are offensive to Him, so they are evil. Satan symbolizes evil. Then Jesus tells His disciples to deny their selfish desires and to follow in His Way. For whoever will live for their selfish desires shall lose his eternal life, but whoever will sacrifice his life for the sake of Jesus and God shall gain eternal life. It is the soul that gets eternal life, not the body.

 

[dybmh]

I found this:

"Bahá’u’lláh taught, that Religion is the chief foundation of Love and Unity and the cause of Oneness. If a religion become the cause of hatred and disharmony, it would be better that it should not exist"

Bahá'í Reference Library - ‘Abdu’l-Bahá in London, Pages 27-30

So, if the Baha'i teaching about homosexuality is the cause of disharmony then it would be better that it should not exist, per Baha'u'llah?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I found this:

"Bahá’u’lláh taught, that Religion is the chief foundation of Love and Unity and the cause of Oneness. If a religion become the cause of hatred and disharmony, it would be better that it should not exist"

Bahá'í Reference Library - ‘Abdu’l-Bahá in London, Pages 27-30

So, if the Baha'i teaching about homosexuality is the cause of disharmony then it would be better that it should not exist, per Baha'u'llah?

Thank you for that dybmh.

The law will stand, the law can not be altered. The fundamental structure of the family unit has been reconfirmed for this dispensation.

It only has to be considered by those who wish to become Baha'i. The laws on chastity apply to all that are not legally married and marriage is to be between a man and a women.

Regards Tony

 

[Truthseeker]

What penalties are adjudicated by this high court in your religion?

Those courts don't exist now, but they will in the future.

 

[ppp]

Maybe God made them feel good so we could practice giving up what feels good and turn to Him instead.

That is some pretty pointless rigamarole. 5 steps where one will do.

 

[Trailblazer]

That is some pretty pointless rigamarole. 5 steps where one will do.

What 5 steps? What one will do?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Here's is what Baha'is believe to be the word of God from Baha'u'llah. Explain it.

"Ye are forbidden to commit adultery, sodomy and lechery. Avoid them, O concourse of the faithful. By the righteousness of God! Ye have been called into being to purge the world from the defilement of evil passions. This is what the Lord of all mankind hath enjoined upon you, could ye but perceive it. He who relateth himself to the All-Merciful and committeth satanic deeds, verily he is not of Me. Unto this beareth witness every atom, pebble, tree and fruit, and beyond them this ever-proclaiming, truthful and trustworthy Tongue."​

Is sex with a person from the same gender included in this? If so, it is forbidden, and God wants you to "purge" the world of the defilement of evil passions. Is homosexuality one of those "evil defilements" that God wants to be purged? And anyone that commits "satanic deeds" is not of me? Is homosexuality one of those "satanic deeds"?

​

Then this...

In a letter dated March 26,1950, written on his behalf, Shoghi Effendi, the authorized interpreter of the Bahá'í Teachings, further explicates the Bahá'í attitude toward homosexuality. It should be noted that the Guardian's interpretation of this subject is based on his infallible understanding of the Texts. It represents both a statement of moral principle and unerring guidance to Bahá'ís who are homosexuals. The letter states: "No matter how devoted and fine the love may be between people of the same sex, to let it find expression in sexual acts is wrong. To say that it is ideal is no excuse. Immorality of every sort is really forbidden by Bahá'u'lláh, and homosexual relationships He looks upon as such, besides being against nature.
​

So, having sex with a person of the same gender is wrong. And it gets lumped in as being an immoral and forbidden act. But there's hope for the person having homosexual relations...

"To be afflicted this way is a great burden to a conscientious soul. But through the advice and help doctors, through a strong and determined effort, and through prayer, a soul can overcome this handicap."
​

That is a big part of all this... Is it an "affliction"? Is it a "handicap" that must be and can be overcome with prayer and the help from doctors? What can a Baha'i say? Only "yes", because that is what your religion tells you is the truth from God.

I do not expect many in this age will understand these laws CG. We are too close to the promiscuity of a self indulgent age.

My grandmother and mother would embrace those laws as that is what Christianity and Islam also teach.

So that is your choice as to how you see it. The Bible warns of such an age

"This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

2 Timothy 3:1-5

Regards Tony

 

[Spirit of Light]

You probably should still do so. Because although your little some of my best friends are gay parody was amusing, you still think that supporting a organization with homophobic principles and then declaring yourself neutral on the issue is not homophobic. Spoilers: It still is.

Bye bye

 

[YoursTrue]

Those courts don't exist now, but they will in the future.

yeah, ok, have a nice day. In other words, there's a Court of Justice (?), there are sins -- but everybody is allowed to come and go as they please within the church or whatever it is you call it? Do you have officiating members who lead the service or congregation?

 

[Truthseeker]

Now, what about the other quotes calling homosexuality an evil passion, immoral, shameful aberration, handicap, against nature, etc.
Do you similarly reject those?

No. Any sex outside marriage is an evil passion and immoral. Using the codewords "shameful aberration" or just "aberration", I couldn't find "shameful aberration". I do believe it is a handicap because in the Baha'i Faith marriage is between the two sexes only, and the gay or homosexual person then would have to live a celibate life, which is difficult to do, if they are to be faithful to the teachings of the Baha'i Faith, unless they marry the opposite sex. In the case of my wife Sara, that's what she did, and fortunately for her it was not just a marriage of convenience. In other words, she loved me on an emotional level. It is against nature in my view because the reason for sex is to produce children. That's how nature usually works.

 

[Truthseeker]

yeah, ok, have a nice day. In other words, there's a Court of Justice (?), there are sins -- but everybody is allowed to come and go as they please within the church or whatever it is you call it? Do you have officiating members who lead the service or congregation?

What I mean to say is that any laws in the Book of Laws that apply on a societal level are not in affect yet, because obviously those Baha'is laws wouldn't take effect in a society where in every country the Baha'is are a minority. Sorry, I didn't express that very well.

 

[Truthseeker]

I am simply examining claims.

You said...
"in the Book of Laws of Baha'u'llah there is no prescribed penalty for such. It is up to the Universal House of Justice to decide what that is sometime in future."
So, is there anything to prevent the UHJ introducing the death penalty for an offence that is described in the most prejudicial terms in Bahai teachings, an offence that is one of the "evil passions" that the faithful are to "purge from the world"?
Just imagine, if you will, that at some point in the future the UHJ is controlled by a new, literalist group of militant Bahais. They read all those passages with their lurid descriptions, and believe that the "purge the world" is to be taken literally. I'm sure to the moderate, liberal Muslims of 60's Afghanistan, the idea of the Taliban would have seemed impossible.

I noticed you didn't quote why I thought this was ridiculous.

 

[YoursTrue]

@Truthseeker - maybe when you said Universal Court of Justice you meant the one that is in heaven or something like that? Or did you use that expression, maybe I'm remembering someone else's expression.

 

[YoursTrue]

What I mean to say is that any laws in the Book of Laws that apply on a societal level are not in affect yet, because obviously those Baha'is laws wouldn't take effect in a society where in every country the Baha'is are a minority. Sorry, I didn't express that very well.

OK, I kind of also meant what types of restrictions, restraints, adjudications are done within your religion?

 

[Truthseeker]

Of course it is.
Romantic love based on any shared quality or interest is still love.
What do you think that love has to be based on?

Love is spiritually based at it's best. It is eternal love. A famous person said “When two people are under the influence of the most violent, most insane, most delusive, and most transient of passions, they are required to swear that they will remain in that excited, abnormal, and exhausting condition continuously until death do them part.”
― George Bernard Shaw

"Love" isn't a clearly defined thing that can be measured and tested. It is entirely subjective and personal.
It would seem that you are trying to impose your own ideas about love on everyone else.
Good luck with that!

Ditto.

 

[YoursTrue]

@Truthseeker -- it is true that for instance within the Jewish religion women can be rabbis depending on sect. and in the Catholic religion someone may be denied communion I guess if the person giving the communion knows that the person did something against whatever. Murder and stealing are usually universally held to be wrong no matter what the religion is. Naturally many religions do not hold nationalistic exploits, such as killing one's purported enemy to be a crime.