Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
But Jesus didn't say "Love your neighbour, but only if they're straight." I don't Jesus would have given a fig about somebody's sexual orientation.
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Homosexuality is not natural and is not normality
- Thread starter Estro Felino
- Start date
But Jesus didn't say "Love your neighbour, but only if they're straight." I don't Jesus would have given a fig about somebody's sexual orientation.
Nada
#
Like I said,I do not hate gay people,I just do not agree with their lifestyle.Jesus did the same.He loved all but he does not love the sins they commit.He did not sit away from them or say nasty things to them.He taught everyone the truth.Those who want a relationship with God must do away with their evil ways.We all sin but we must stop breaking God's laws.He considers homosexuality an abomination.Those who wish to continue can do so willfully.Those who want to serve God must abide by His laws.We must love everyone regardless of what they are.
He did say it was his opinion.
Which is fine. Legislating such an opinion however becomes problematic.
My opinion is that bisexuality is far superior to other orientations. It's only because I relate to bisexuality however and expressing my opinion in a debate for determining ethical solutions for homosexuals is at best unhelpful and at worst insulting.
I recognize my own bias in favor of bisexuality without intentionally denigrating people who don't share in my orientation.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Where exactly does God say homosexuality is an abomination?
Nada
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Leviticus 20:13 If a man has sexual intercourse with a male as one has sexual intercourse with a woman, the two of them have committed an abomination. They must be put to death; their blood guilt is on themselves.
Homosexuality:a person who is sexually attracted to people of their own sex.
Sodomy:sexual intercourse involving anal or oral copulation.
Ps.Notice sodomy involves heterosexual people as well.
This mixed mode thinking is not good, picking some abominations but ignoring others. In general Christians do many of thing things that are an abomination for Jews, because they are not abominations for us. We eat bacon, and that is the most well known one. Even Muslims don't eat bacon, but we do. My dad makes bacon all the time and thinks nothing of it. We can work on Saturday and Sunday. We wear multiple types of fiber and mixed weaves. Jews aren't allowed to do that. On top of everything that we do that Jews aren't allowed to do, we also don't do the same prayers and have different holidays. Things that are abominations for them just don't apply to Christian writings. Jesus himself is considered an atonement for the entire world, and that is the explanation for why Christians may eat bacon etc. It doesn't then make sense for Christians to seize upon anal penetration as singularly important to Christians.
Nada
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Homosexuality is an abomination for Jews and Christians.
As if abominations could apply to Christians! "Rise, Peter. Kill and eat." If abomination still applies, then why did Jesus have to die? We know that sins can be forgiven through prayers. The real disagreement between you and me is not about homosexuality but about the nature of atonement and work that Jesus accomplishes in his death, but since we can't discuss that in this thread without a complete derailment... Christians cannot perform abominations though we may err. We can do evil or good and can be lazy, but abomination is a Jewish thing only. We don't use the ashes of red heifers to purify ourselves or anything like that, so abominations simply don't apply. Our standard is to love one another.
Robert.Evans
You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
He would, but that does not mean we burn them at the stake.
Robert.Evans
You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Really! What's he got, a bacon making machine or something
Only joking. I'm sure he's a great guy.
Nada
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No.It is still an abomination.The reason for this is because it goes against the natural ways of Husband and Wife.It is a gross imperfection.Sexual immorality.It was in the OT for Jews and is in the NT for Christians.
Romans 1:26-27.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10.
9 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men[a] 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
There are many sins.True christians do not pick on gays.They explain God's views.God hates all sin but he calls homosexuality an abomination.
By the way,this thread is called " Homosexuality is not natural and is not normality", that is why homosexuality is being discussed and not other topics or sins.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. Paul did, a man who never once met or talked to Jesus while he was alive. And, even then, all passages can easily be shown to be speaking against sex outside of marriage/commitment in general. I'm not sure you have a lot to go on beyond the interpretation of the Church, which has, time and time again, been shown to be wrong.
Robert.Evans
You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Which is kinda interesting on many levels, eh? But I don't mean anything by that.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Is there any evidence in the New Testament of Jesus discriminating against homosexuals? And doesn't "Love thy neighbour" mean a kind and accepting attitude to all types of people, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, whatever?
Clearly there was an element of cultural homophobia when the Bible texts were written, but bringing those attitudes into 21st century Christianity seems regressive and entirely out of step with Christ's teaching.
Religious homophobia is odious, however cleverly it is packaged.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
What evidence do you have to support the idea that Jesus would judge people due to their sexual orientation?
Nada
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Well what many fail to fully comprehend about the holy scriptures is that is God's word.The Jews were instructed by it.Homosexuality was forbidden in the OT.Jesus came later and preached the word of God.Homosexuality is still forbidden in the NT.Everything the disciples taught was what Jesus preached.
Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
Prove it. Also prove that God was homophobic.
It is more natural for a man to sleep with multiple women. Marriage is when he and a woman are made one flesh for the purposes of rearing righteous children, dedicating themselves to that task. It requires a contract, rules, agreements and effort and is therefore not natural but requires conscious choices. That doesn't make it unimportant. Its still important. A Jewish father is required to talk constantly about the Torah with his children.
You referred me to Romans 1:26-27. Because we are talking about the Bible, we know that this passage is referring to something that happened in the Bible to Jews, not to Gentiles. In particular this is probably (almost certainly) talking about the Jews who were dragged away by Assyrians and Babylonians and made to eat strange foods and to live like foreigners. They lost their special ability to keep Torah and were made to eat abominable foods and were no longer permitted to live by Torah. The whole book of Lamentations was written about it, because it was a subject of lament and was so traumatic. This passage in Romans 1:26 is one teensy little reference to all of that. Its about abominations, and only Jews can commit abominations that turn them into Gentiles. Gentiles cannot commit abominations, because we are already Gentiles. We already don't have the Torah, so we can't lose it. You can't lose something you already don't have.
You referred me to 1 Corinthians 6:9-10. This one is commonly debated, and you probably have already heard that it refers to temple prostitution of little boys. Its a terrible thing that was a reality in those days, and even today is a problem. Even today children are in danger of falling victim to sex trafficking, and that is (most likely) what this passage refers to rather than to homosexuality.
Let me ask you this: why does Ezekiel refer to the sin of Sodom and Gomorah not as a sexual sin but as the sin of being arrogant, overfed and not caring for the poor? Why, specifically, does Ezekiel not mention homosexuality or 'Sodomy'? (Ezekiel 16:49) "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy." So it becomes clear that in the eyes of Ezekiel, a prophet, that 'Sodomy' is not sexual but has to do with arrogance and unconcern. In fact if sex through the anus was such a big deal then Ezekiel should have mentioned it, since he said "This is the sin of your sister Sodom." Yes, we know that the men had sex with men in Sodom, because we can read the story yet Ezekiel doesn't include it as one of Sodom's sins. Instead he lists other things. Well, the simplest answer is that since Sodom was not Jewish there was no objection to how sex was performed, just as there was no objection if men in Sodom ate bacon or not.
Secondly, why is it that in the story of the destruction of the city of Sodom, why is it that Abraham not once is told by the angels that the men are sinning sexually? Instead the angels tell him that "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me" (NIV Gen 18:21). So Genesis tells us there was an outcry against Sodom, and Ezekiel details what that outcry was. So Christians should stop obsessing over trivialities about who is using the back-door during sex and start obsessing over how the poor are being taken care of and whether there is arrogance in our cities. We should above-all avoid slavery, which the king of Sodom was clearly involved in. He even said openly to Abraham "Give me the people and you take the goods" but Abraham would not touch his filthy money. Genesis never explains why, but Ezekiel tells us why.
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Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
Actually, Exodus 20:26 seems to be saying to build the Altar low so that you don't have to ascend it and show your pudenda.
Exo 20:24 An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me, and shalt sacrifice thereon thy burnt offerings, and thy peace offerings, thy sheep, and thine oxen: in all places where I record my name I will come unto thee, and I will bless thee.
Exo 20:25 And if thou wilt make me an altar of stone, thou shalt not build it of hewn stone: for if thou lift up thy tool upon it, thou hast polluted it.
Exo 20:26 And don't ascend an elevation to My Altar, In order that is not revealed thy pudenda/nudity upon it.
Though as normally translated - one could look at the line as - don't build High Places/Altars, where Pudenda will be revealed.
Exo 20:26 Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.
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If homosexual sex is not natural, then it is Supernatural. Isn't that what Christians are looking for in the Phenomenal Universe?