House Democrat Health Plan

[Reverend Rick]

http://docs.house.gov/gopleader/House-Democrats-Health-Plan.pdf

 

[Sunstone]

http://docs.house.gov/gopleader/House-Democrats-Health-Plan.pdf

More evidence we need a single-payer plan.

 

[themadhair]

http://docs.house.gov/gopleader/House-Democrats-Health-Plan.pdf

I'm completely missing the point here. Is your argument that healthcare is too complicated for the GOP?

 

[twinmama]

Just had to share this somewhere - too juicy.

Whole article here;

Stephen Hawking both British and not dead • The Register

......In perhaps the most amusing effort to discredit US President Barack Obama's plan for nationalized health care - if not the most ridiculous - US financial newspaper Investor's Business Daily has said that if Stephen Hawking were British, he would be dead...................................
"I wouldn’t be here today if it were not for the NHS," Hawking told The Guardian. "I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived."

 

[themadhair]

Stephen Hawking both British and not dead • The Register

Adding some more ridiculous claims I've heard:

The healthcare plan will kill off the elderly.
The healthcare plan will kill of disabled kids.
The healthcare plan will enforce euthanasia.
The healthcare plan will enforce abortion.
The healthcare plan will set up death camps.
The healthcare plan won’t be as good non-government schemes such as medicare.
The healthcare plan is evil because its logo has Nazi roots.


And some of the above have been said by actual congress people too. Scary.

 

[Autodidact]

1. You're right, we need single payer.
2. If it comes from the Republicans, it's probably a lie, like the "kill granny lie." If you want to be believed, you have to stop lying.
3. O.K., it's complicated. And?

 

[Autodidact]

It seems to me that this proposal were really a bad idea, opponents could argue against what it actually says, rather than making stuff up. But that's just me.

 

[Mister_T]

Just had to share this somewhere - too juicy.

Whole article here;

Stephen Hawking both British and not dead • The Register

......In perhaps the most amusing effort to discredit US President Barack Obama's plan for nationalized health care - if not the most ridiculous - US financial newspaper Investor's Business Daily has said that if Stephen Hawking were British, he would be dead...................................
"I wouldn’t be here today if it were not for the NHS," Hawking told The Guardian. "I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived."

I heard about this tactic being used by anti-govenrment healthcare advocates on the radio the other day......made me do a face/palm while stuck in traffic.

 

[tumbleweed41]

See, that is what gets me.
If you have a real issue with the plan. Discuss those issues. But the lies and misinformation only show that Rush and his ilk can come up with no real issues.
Thus bolstering the plan as sound.

 

[themadhair]

It seems to me that this proposal were really a bad idea, opponents could argue against what it actually says, rather than making stuff up. But that's just me.

If people were rational and looked at the issues, instead of getting angry for no reason and at the wrong thing, then this would have been passed years ago.

 

[Valjean]

Flowchart anything we do everyday and it'll look complicated. That doesn't mean it doeasn't work.
RR's exemplar is actually a rather simple flowchart. Try diagramming some of our current healthcare modalities and it wouldn't fit on a page! :yes:

 

[Copernicus]

...there are many, many Americans who disagree vehemently with the concept of socialized medicine. If you support socialized medicine, news flash - you're in the minority.

Nonsense. The vast majority of Americans support Medicare and will depend on it when they retire. They also support other single payer plans such as the VA. Calling such plans "socialized medicine" just distorts what the debate is really about: the best method for delivering health care to American citizens. It turns out that our system is far more costly than that of other nations (about twice as expensive), it covers fewer people, and it delivers poorer results--a lower life expectancy and higher infant mortality rate.

I don't know where you live, but I can tell you this - I live in East Texas. I think our current administration is out of touch with a lot of people - they are so enmeshed (entombed?) in their liberal bubble that they assume that people who disagree with them are some sort of inbred first cousins of Tim McVeigh.

If that is how you think you are perceived by those who disagree with you, then you are the one living in a conservative bubble. It is time to stop demonizing liberals and blocking honest debate with disruptive tactics. That strategy just causes Republicans to become even more marginalized.

This is not the case. Our elected officials need to listen more closely to their constituents. After all, we hired them, they work for us, and it is their job to represent us on Capitol Hill.

Exactly so, but it appears you weren't among those who voted to hire the current majority in power. There is nothing wrong with wanting your side to be heard, but there is something wrong with a minority attempting to drown out public debate with lies, inflammatory rhetoric, and disruption of public meetings.

Most voters are opposed to the current Healthcare Reform bills that have been presented.

Utterly false. Most voters know very little about the content of the bills, and the right wing has been trying to raise a level of hysteria that has nothing at all to do with their content. In fact, surveys consistently show that most Americans want health care reform, not the status quo. Republican tactics seem aimed at thwarting that proven desire. They offer no alternative plan, just hysterical rhetoric to block any and all legislation that would move us in the direction of reform.

Washington needs to step back and re evaluate, and develop a plan that is more representative of our needs and wants.

How can it step back and evaluate anything when there is a significant minority that is bent on disrupting any plan at all?

 

[Valjean]

Washington's not primarily concerned with our "needs and wants." Serving the people is no longer its job. Government today serves industry and the military, not the intersests of the people.

 

[PureX]

http://docs.house.gov/gopleader/House-Democrats-Health-Plan.pdf

This is what health care plans looks like when corporate bribery and it's political flunkies get done with them.

 

[PureX]

Please watch this Wendell Potter interview, CEO of SIGNA (a big insurance company) ...

 

[tumbleweed41]

What is really scary is the possibility of denying coverage to people with pre-existing conditions, dropping those who develop serious illnesses, and hiking premiums an average of 12% per year.

Oh wait...we have that now with the insurance companies.......

 

[Zephyr]

Just had to share this somewhere - too juicy.

Whole article here;

Stephen Hawking both British and not dead • The Register

......In perhaps the most amusing effort to discredit US President Barack Obama's plan for nationalized health care - if not the most ridiculous - US financial newspaper Investor's Business Daily has said that if Stephen Hawking were British, he would be dead...................................
"I wouldn’t be here today if it were not for the NHS," Hawking told The Guardian. "I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived."

A bit off topic, but a while back somebody apparently made him a new speaking machine that could speak with a British accent, but he decided that he had grown accustomed to his older "voice" and stuck with his old machine.

 

[yossarian22]

I feel the need to keep you informed, as PMSNBC will only feed you one side of the story.

This isn't a "side"

The graph is completely and utterly meaningless because 1, it is a flat out fabrication (at least the first version of it was, Im not wasting my time on the other 2) and 2, even if it was true, saying "look how complicated this is" isn't an argument.

Well now Yoss, did we get out of bed on the wrong side?

I'm more than a little annoyed considering that you and other continue to parrot industry talking points that are obviously not worth responding to.

"Its complicated"

Did you REALLY HAVE to point this out? Does ANYBODY think a national healthcare system is going to be simple?

Calling me an "elaborate troll", puts you among the ranks of Pelosi and company. She thinks we are un american because we have a different opinion.

Im calling you an elaborate troll based on your posting history, in which you continuously spout right wing talking points and have yet to actually change your opinion on any of them. That is why you seem to be an elaborate troll

As for "not wanting to debate the issues," it is abundantly clear that you either refuse or are flat out not capable of understanding a contrary viewpoint. I don't feel like debating with you because it, quite frankly, does not seem worth my time. The past threads we have done this have not lead to you (or others for that matter) changing your opinion in a meaningful way and I have little reason to think this one will either.

Good gosh, yoss, do you really have to make personal attacks on the integrity of people just because you don't agree with their point of view?

Yes. Especially when they refuse to change their viewpoint at all.

If that's the case, you may want to eat your Wheaties on this one, because there are many, many Americans who disagree vehemently with the concept of socialized medicine. If you support socialized medicine, news flash - you're in the minority.

Then many many Americans are, quite frankly, idiots.

There is absolutely no reason why government run healthcare would be worse than private insurance healthcare. It should be mindnumbingly obvious that the former is cheaper (or better) than the latter because governments have vested interest in the welfare of their citizens while private companies only need to care about shareholders.

"Oh but the government might decide that my life isn't worth saving"

What do you think private insurance companies do when they deny your claims? The government is LESS likely to do that than private insurance because the government does not care about making a profit. The government also has a tremendously larger pool to spread risk through.

Oh and nevermind that REFORM DOES NOT MEAN SOCIALIZED MEDICINE. Lets ignore how France has great healthcare and doesn't have socialized medicine and is STILL cheaper than what we have now.

Even if the majority of the US does not support healthcare reform (which is a flat out lie), we should do it anyways.

 

[twinmama]

I live in country with healthcare system so many seem to hate.
My dad (61 years old)was diagnosed with lungcancer this summer. Week after the diagnosed he went to tests(heart, remaining "breathing volume", lots of tests) to see if he is otherwise healthy enough to survive with only one lung. He was. He had to stop taking this one medicine (blood thinning) and doctors had to wait 10 days for the medicine totally go away from his system. He was operated after that 10 days. He is at the moment in hospital, operation went well, he will get sytostates just in case - they did get every piece of that tumor away.
How much all this will cost to my father? Somewhere between 200 - 250€ - this includes all the tests, operation, hospital stay and the medicines, both sytostates and strong painklillers.
All through this path he met 3 different doctors and together as a team where my father was included the decissions were made. There were no consultation with any goverment office.

My friends grandmom had similar thing a year ago. She was 76 and she was still operated.

 

[themadhair]

All through this path he met 3 different doctors and together as a team where my father was included the decissions were made. There were no consultation with any goverment office.

I’m quoting the above to give you the chance to learn why it doesn’t apply to the current health care plan.