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How about rehabilitate Putin?

Shaul

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
England my lionheart said:
Self determination,what a wonderful idea Bella Donna..
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What the ethnic Russians erstwhile “separatists” are doing in the Donbas is the opposite of self determination. They are invaders who are now attempting to steal the land from its original inhabitants.
 
Estro Felino

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Shaul said:
First off, I don’t think the Kosovo secession was morally nor legally right. So, there is that. Similarly the secession of the Donbas was also a sham. The Donbas has historically been an area of the Ukraine. Similarly Kosovo is historically Serbian. In both cases a foreign power invaded and ethnically cleansed the regions of its natives and installed their own people. Now later they are exploiting the previous criminal ethnic cleansing to steal the land. The international community does not recognize the Donbas secession. This is in accord with the Minsk agreements.

I hope the United States applies a consistent standard of not rewarding perpetrators of ethnic cleansing.
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In both cases it is absolutely legitimate. Because Kosovars speak a language that is basically Albanian, so it is not fair, just, legitimate that they remain a province of Serbia.
I love both Serbians and Albanians, they are like brothers to me.
But international law must be respected. And includes the right to self-determination of any nation of the world.

I repudiate war, so the way to settle such matters is diplomacy and referendums.
As for Donbas, same thing.
If the Donbas people decide to be independent, to become two independent republics, their will must be ascertained through referendum. And the result must be respected. Same as for Crimea.
Because they speak a different language than Ukrainians.

There is a video where Poroshenko says: " we Ukrainians will have the pensions, the. Donbas people will not. And their children will sit down in bunkers, whereas ours will go to school"
So...who started this war?
What pushed the Donbas people to be independent from Poroshenko and his loving words?
 
Last edited:
Shaul

Shaul

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Estro Felino said:
In both cases it is absolutely legitimate. Because Kosovars speak a language that is basically Albanian, so it is not fair, just, legitimate that they remain a province of Serbia.
I love both Serbians and Albanians, they are like brothers to me.
But international law must be respected. And includes the right to self-determination of any nation of the world.

I repudiate war, so the way to settle such matters is diplomacy and referendums.
As for Donbas, same thing.
If the Donbas people decide to be independent, to become two independent republics, their will must be ascertained through referendum. And the result must be respected. Same as for Crimea.
Because they speak a different language than Ukrainians.

There is a video where Poroshenko says: " we Ukrainians will have the pensions, the. Donbas people will not. And their children will sit down in bunkers, whereas ours will go to school"
So...who started this war?
What pushed the Donbas people to be independent from Poroshenko and his loving words?
Click to expand...
The Kosovar Albanians literally speak Albanian because they are, get this, Albanians. They are not the historical residents of that land. The Serbians were the historical people of the land.

In the Donbas the historical people were the Ukrainians and Tartars. During the Soviet period the region was ethnically cleansed of Tartars and to a lesser extent Ukrainians. Ethnic Russians were installed there. (Similarly in other Soviet Republics) This was calculated. It was to mollify the Republics and give Russia a pretext to undermine and control lands it wanted as buffers. The Russians started this war. The Ukrainians will finish it.
 
Estro Felino

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Shaul said:
The Kosovar Albanians literally speak Albanian because they are, get this, Albanians. They are not the historical residents of that land. The Serbians were the historical people of the land.

In the Donbas the historical people were the Ukrainians and Tartars. During the Soviet period the region was ethnically cleansed of Tartars and to a lesser extent Ukrainians. Ethnic Russians were installed there. (Similarly in other Soviet Republics) This was calculated. It was to mollify the Republics and give Russia a pretext to undermine and control lands it wanted as buffers. The Russians started this war. The Ukrainians will finish it.
Click to expand...

Pretext is the right word here. A pretext is always findable, when you want a war at any cost.
Look at the European Union...so many territorial questions still unsolved (South Tyrol, Catalonia) and zero wars.
 
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