How and why did you reject christ?

[IndigoChild5559]

Thank you.

How does Judaism "put together their pieces"? Community/fellowship? Something else?

Judaism offers an ongoing relationship with the same God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that they already know, and know to be the One True God. It offers the scriptures that they already know and are familiar with (it simply removes the Christian scriptures, which contradict them). Judaism offers a much more sensible set of instructions (simply obey God, and repent when you fall down). And for those who go the extra mile and become Jews rather than remain righteous Gentiles / Noahide, Judaism offers a tight knit community, both on the synagogue level, and on a worldwide level. Judaism offers an ages old body of distilled wisdom that you only get with ancient religions -- and one where God is involved and sanctions the use of human wisdom.

Thus Judaism offers spiritual enrichment, challenge, and fulfillment. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob loves us is Avinu Malkeinu, Our Father, Our King--the rich fullness of both the righteous sovereign of the universe and the intimate father who loves us, there for us to develop a relationship with through prayer, study, and good works. Judaism offers an existentially meaningful faith -- Ecclesiastes 12:13. Judaism offers a logically coherent faith that makes sense to the mind. And Judaism offers an emotionally fulfilling faith that is community based.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It is compelling to me that ECHAD is also in Genesis 2:24, my wife and I are ECHAD (a plural oneness).

Yeshua taught adherence to Ha Shem, not ****uf. He claimed to fulfill Messianic prophecies, and as crucified for claiming oneness with Ha Shem. This is the sole accusation made against Him by the Parushim that stuck!

We all upon tradition to tell us what the words of the Torah mean. What has been passed down to us is that ECHAD in the Shema means a oneness that cannot be surpassed. As Maimonides states in his 13 principles of the Jewish faith, it means belief in the absolute and unparalleled unity of God.


BTW, we can't spell out the word shi-tuf the way it normally is, because the censor feature detects a nasty word and blots out the first four letters.

I don't think Jesus actually taught that he was God. I think those sort of ideas were grafted into the text by later writers. He claimed to be the messiah, but the Jewish messiah is supposed to be a man, not God or a god, etc.

The muddled monotheism (aka shi-tuf) of Christianity came later, after Gentiles began to convert. It was quite normal in the Greco-Roman culture to think of human beings as demi-gods born of human beings, etc. It was Paul, not Jesus, who (as a diaspora Hellenized Jew, having been raised in Tarsus) pushed this sort of thinking and bringing in the Gentiles to the church, paving the way for Gentile thinking to become the norm in the new religion.

 

[BilliardsBall]

It was detrimental to my mental and physical health. I'm being honest here. I do know what a lot of people want me to believe and tell me biblical passages to support it.

I don't care for belief based on human sacrifice regardless the interpretation of it. (Religion isn't a factor in this) I was siting in front of jesus at the Eucharist and thought, I don't even believe his father even existed. I never have. It took awhile in this relationship with the Eucharist (religion aside) and just said hey, I understand. This isn't for me.

Sacraments of christ: baptism, confirmation, and communion, bring people together so that jesus would be present. When jesus is present once the body has commune, everyone sits at their lord's table to commune with christ. So, communion is the tie that keeps everyone together in christ and the sacrament of confirmation is saying that they want jesus to be their lord and savior. That's the bare bones of Mass. Without believing in christ's father, being in Mass (communion with brothers and sisters in christ) was an insult.

The thing is too, I can't really tell you from a protestant view whether or not I was christian. Catholic denomination says once you are baptized (religion aside), you're one in christ. They believe if you walk away, you're not at fault.

After reflection, I took communion for the last time, said "hey. it is what it is." and left. A lot of people follow because that's what they know. Some because that's what they are told. Now I understand how they feel that way. Christianity is a very possessive faith. I'm just very glad that I can observe and experience things of my own choice and walk away just as well.

You'd have to try to look at it from another's perspective. I don't agree every religion is "perfect" for the believer. That's like saying life is perfect. I'm sure believers of all faiths: christian, Hindu, whatever, can find challenging aspects of their faith or things that they may not agree with that challenges them to a better relationship with god or so have you. I'm just too open to follow anyone.

Also. Worship (putting something or someone higher than myself) just doesn't feel right. If the idea, etc, isn't equal, it's not worth my following.

Countless sects have studied the Bible, built a sect, and declared communion a symbol only, based on clear Bible passages.

I welcome a relationship with a person.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Judaism offers an ongoing relationship with the same God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob that they already know, and know to be the One True God. It offers the scriptures that they already know and are familiar with (it simply removes the Christian scriptures, which contradict them). Judaism offers a much more sensible set of instructions (simply obey God, and repent when you fall down). And for those who go the extra mile and become Jews rather than remain righteous Gentiles / Noahide, Judaism offers a tight knit community, both on the synagogue level, and on a worldwide level. Judaism offers an ages old body of distilled wisdom that you only get with ancient religions -- and one where God is involved and sanctions the use of human wisdom.

Thus Judaism offers spiritual enrichment, challenge, and fulfillment. The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob loves us is Avinu Malkeinu, Our Father, Our King--the rich fullness of both the righteous sovereign of the universe and the intimate father who loves us, there for us to develop a relationship with through prayer, study, and good works. Judaism offers an existentially meaningful faith -- Ecclesiastes 12:13. Judaism offers a logically coherent faith that makes sense to the mind. And Judaism offers an emotionally fulfilling faith that is community based.

Respectfully, I've read both testaments multiple times and a good deal of Talmud, Zohar, etc. and the Christian scriptures do not conflict with Tanakh. I'd put it that 95% of NT is simply commentary on Tanakh.

You offer relationship with God via knowledge, obedience and study. Yeshua offers direct contact and a person to relate to.

 

[BilliardsBall]

We all upon tradition to tell us what the words of the Torah mean. What has been passed down to us is that ECHAD in the Shema means a oneness that cannot be surpassed. As Maimonides states in his 13 principles of the Jewish faith, it means belief in the absolute and unparalleled unity of God.


BTW, we can't spell out the word shi-tuf the way it normally is, because the censor feature detects a nasty word and blots out the first four letters.

I don't think Jesus actually taught that he was God. I think those sort of ideas were grafted into the text by later writers. He claimed to be the messiah, but the Jewish messiah is supposed to be a man, not God or a god, etc.

The muddled monotheism (aka shi-tuf) of Christianity came later, after Gentiles began to convert. It was quite normal in the Greco-Roman culture to think of human beings as demi-gods born of human beings, etc. It was Paul, not Jesus, who (as a diaspora Hellenized Jew, having been raised in Tarsus) pushed this sort of thinking and bringing in the Gentiles to the church, paving the way for Gentile thinking to become the norm in the new religion.

To paraphrase, RAMBAM, in his zeal to keep his distinct against persecutors, said "Ha Shem made a mistake choosing echad and not yachid," a clear indication that this great sage KNEW echad implied a plural God. The 13 principles come over a millennium after people were asking Yeshua if He was the Son and God.

Jesus not only taught He was God, He was executed for blasphemy--being equated with God. The gospels report our people asking Him to swear if He was Messiah, and He responded with I AM and quoted Messianic prophecy from Daniel where Messiah comes at God's right hand from Heaven to Earth. As just reported on an earlier post, I've read the NT multiple times. Your comments are typical of what modern Jewish brothers and sisters say the NT says, but does not actually say.

Paul never had an original thought. He simply comments on Tanakh, hundreds of times. The Christians were known into the second century as a Jewish sect. They were never accused by Romans or Jews of making a new religion, merely of following a Jewish Messiah. "Paul started a new faith" is a contrivance of modern scholars.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

4) There are many reasons why a Jewish person may change religion, for example, satisfaction in inter-marriage. However, atheists tend to leave churches for moral reasons--they indulge moral whims (sin) after exiting the church. Where is your friend now?

About a couple weeks after I left the Church and broke up with Jesus I was visiting a friend, messing with a radio, fighting with it, and cussing up a storm because I wanted to listen to the hard rock station. My friend has a weird look on his face, and remarked that he wasnt used to hearing me talk like that or wanting to listen to that kind of music.
But what does it matter at that point? I had the "squeaky clean" Christian thing going on because I was a highly devoted Christian. If I'm not following Christ anymore, suddenly it really doesn't matter if I have sex outside of marriage. It doesn't matter if I listen to "devil music." It did take some serious effort to fully deprogram myself of Church influence, however. But maybe not as well as I think, as some Europeans have commented that I tend to be "ex Christian" like amd act amd say things in a way that indicates my soul was executed by Christ.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Why did you reject christ after having a genuine personal relationship with and his god?

Did you have a conversation with him (if you had a genuine relationship with christ before) and told me hey, see ya? or had a deep talk of departure?

If you had a genuine relationship with the christian god directly, the same questions.

Many people reject christianity, but I'm wondering if they had a relationship with christ, how did they reject christ and/or his god. There is a difference.

For me, I never had a relationship with christ's father. Never believed he existed. Christ, I can kinda understand, because he was a human flesh and blood. That, and I do believe in spirits (say of my loved ones), so this wasn't too hard to "get." The more I worshiped, the less I worshiped. It was an intense feeling of "this isn't right for you." Then I say and thought about what my priest said to me before I went to RCIA. "Maybe you should wait." Now, if Churches want you to come to church and be saved, what priest would ask you to wait first?

So, however you define it, I said in so many words "hey, jesus. I know you're important to people. I can't believe in human sacrifice. (I feel its wrong to worship 'you' as a person/flesh/however defined). This is my last actual Mass.

That's it.

I'm more open than most since I really have nothing to hide about my spiritual life. I did read a native american quote (I posted it somewhere). The author of this book asked her chief if she can use his words in her book. He says, "Of course you can use them. They are not my words, but of god". (Context please)

Why did you reject christ after having a genuine personal relationship with and his god?

I was born in to a Christian family, but at age 15 i starten to realize that what the church was teaching was no longer the true teaching Jesus gave, priests and probably governments starter to change the words in the bible, and that meant to me they destroy the posability to gain true teaching. They change the teaching because it did not fit them. But it's them who should change to become the way the teaching says.
Then i searched for 5 years and converted to Theravada Buddhism. And i was a buddhist until end of last years. That was when i realized i had reached the end of what i would learn. Much of the teaching has be en changed in buddhism too.
So Falun Gong is what i cultivate now. And our teacher is alive today, so it is still possible to again the true teaching and conummation.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Countless sects have studied the Bible, built a sect, and declared communion a symbol only, based on clear Bible passages.

I welcome a relationship with a person.

I don't belittle religion because when you have a relationship with christ, you don't see religion has separate nor a hindrance. It's like telling people who study the bible and have bible study that their studies are depreciating their actual relationship with christ.

Of course, not everyone finds christ through tradition. That is fine. In the bible, jesus is talking about using religion as a replacement to god not a practice in worship. I guess we need to be more open minded that what doesn't work for us does not devalue or change how it helps others. I didn't leave because of religion. I'm glad I never had that experience because that's just not how I want to see people in their relationship with christ: judging their relationship by generalizing their practice based on my opinions about religion. That's silly.

We all can learn not to judge. The bible and god shouldn't be a justification to do so.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

To paraphrase, RAMBAM, in his zeal to keep his distinct against persecutors, said "Ha Shem made a mistake choosing echad and not yachid," a clear indication that this great sage KNEW echad implied a plural God.

How do you expect me to carry on a rational discussion with you when you say ridiculous things such as this. I can't take you seriously now.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Respectfully, I've read both testaments multiple times and a good deal of Talmud, Zohar, etc. and the Christian scriptures do not conflict with Tanakh. I'd put it that 95% of NT is simply commentary on Tanakh.

You offer relationship with God via knowledge, obedience and study. Yeshua offers direct contact and a person to relate to.

The Christian scriptures teach that in order not to eternally fry in hell, you have to believe in the truth about the Messiah and place your faith in him.

You would think that if, as you say, the NT were 95% simply commentary on the Tanakh, that you would find mention of this somewhere in the Tanakh. But you don't. Over and over and over again, the Tanakh stresses obedience to the Law. But never does it mention having faith in the coming Messiah or fry.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Countless sects have studied the Bible, built a sect, and declared communion a symbol only, based on clear Bible passages.

I welcome a relationship with a person.

Only Protestantism, which is a minority view in Chrisitanity.

 

[Harel13]

To paraphrase, RAMBAM, in his zeal to keep his distinct against persecutors, said "Ha Shem made a mistake choosing echad and not yachid," a clear indication that this great sage KNEW echad implied a plural God.

Source?

 

[BilliardsBall]

About a couple weeks after I left the Church and broke up with Jesus I was visiting a friend, messing with a radio, fighting with it, and cussing up a storm because I wanted to listen to the hard rock station. My friend has a weird look on his face, and remarked that he wasnt used to hearing me talk like that or wanting to listen to that kind of music.
But what does it matter at that point? I had the "squeaky clean" Christian thing going on because I was a highly devoted Christian. If I'm not following Christ anymore, suddenly it really doesn't matter if I have sex outside of marriage. It doesn't matter if I listen to "devil music." It did take some serious effort to fully deprogram myself of Church influence, however. But maybe not as well as I think, as some Europeans have commented that I tend to be "ex Christian" like amd act amd say things in a way that indicates my soul was executed by Christ.

So you agree, you are one of many who after leaving Christianity, indulged the flesh. Thank you.

 

[BilliardsBall]

How do you expect me to carry on a rational discussion with you when you say ridiculous things such as this. I can't take you seriously now.

You should look up what the sage said. It's telling.

 

[BilliardsBall]

The Christian scriptures teach that in order not to eternally fry in hell, you have to believe in the truth about the Messiah and place your faith in him.

You would think that if, as you say, the NT were 95% simply commentary on the Tanakh, that you would find mention of this somewhere in the Tanakh. But you don't. Over and over and over again, the Tanakh stresses obedience to the Law. But never does it mention having faith in the coming Messiah or fry.

It is untrue to say Tanakh does not describe judgment in Hell. That is myth I was also taught as a young Jew.

The end of Isaiah and Daniel both describe, for example, the destiny of those who reject God/righteousness.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So you agree, you are one of many who after leaving Christianity, indulged the flesh. Thank you.

I didn't deny it. I asked, though, why it matters. Why do you ask?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It is untrue to say Tanakh does not describe judgment in Hell.

To my best knowledge, the Tanakh does not mention a Hell, and without a Devil it seems odd to me to have a Deviless Hell, as Hell was created as a prison, more or less, for Satan and his angels after the Rebellion.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

So you agree, you are one of many who after leaving Christianity, indulged the flesh. Thank you.

You aren't suggesting that this is WHY he left? I mean, that would be a totally different ball of wax.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You should look up what the sage said. It's telling.

It's not what Rambam said that I am challenging. It's your interpretation of it (claiming that Rambam believed in multiple gods.) After all, Rambam wrote the 13 principles of the Jewish faith, and believing in just one God' absolute and unparalleled unity (#2).

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It is untrue to say Tanakh does not describe judgment in Hell. That is myth I was also taught as a young Jew.

The end of Isaiah and Daniel both describe, for example, the destiny of those who reject God/righteousness.

Nor does it teach you must have faith in the Messiah when he comes. No such inkling of such a thing is ever mentioned.