How are these Great Beings explained?

[CG Didymus]

Some of these things can only be verified by another Manifestation otherwise there is no resolution to the controversies.

We believe that the Book of Certitude is the Book that 'unselaed' the meanings of the scriptures that Daniel was told were sealed until the time of the end.

As Shoghi Effendi wrote about the Iqán:

Revealed on the eve of the declaration of His Mission, it proffered to mankind the "Choice Sealed Wine," whose seal is of "musk," and broke the "seals" of the "Book" referred to by Daniel, and disclosed the meaning of the "words" destined to remain "closed up" till the "time of the end."

It's too easy. We don't know anything for sure. We are told "believe" "have faith" "trust in the Word", but you make it so none of the previous "Words of God" as we now have them are trustworthy.

On top of that, what is written is turned around to say what Baha'u'llah says it means. So our "traditional" understanding of our Scriptures can only mean one thing and can only point to one person, Baha'u'llah. But because you say all these "manifestations" are true, they have to also point to each other. Again with twist and turns, making things symbolic, you do just that. Naturally, it works for you, because you chose to believe the Baha'i Faith.

But like so many of us here are saying, it is not unity. I think maybe Hinduism and/or Buddhism has something about "many paths" that lead to the same source. But, the Baha'i Faith talks "oneness" of all religions while at the same time rejecting all the religions by saying they have added "tradition" and have misinterpreted the true sayings of the founder. That rejection is the biggest argument going against you right now.

 

[RESOLUTION]

Did you know that Adrian009 has a thread about whether the resurrection is a physical one or only symbolic?

Yes thanks! I did see it.
I may have answered on that thread. But would need to take a look to make sure.
Thank you

 

[loverofhumanity]

My point is how can you believe the essence of their religion when the religious are telling you, there is no essence without tradition, law, and custom? They are embedded in the religion. Its' not new age.

We believe that only what the Founder originally taught is the essence.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Religion doesn't need to be mystical to be common sense. Ask a christian question if a Bahai is a christian by their accepting christ but disagreeing with some of the fundamentals that make christianity what it is.

Authority? To christians, Christ himself. Not Bahullah.

You asked if you should just throw the words of Bahaullah away then. If you want to believe in christ in full not half (or luke warm) then you have to be a christian. The essence of christianity is built in their form. Without their form, you like many pagans belief the "essence" of christ but not christianity. However, they don't call what they believe christianity. That's respecting christians. So, that's the difference.

Christians are entitled to believe how they understand. The difference I think here is that Baha'is believe the prophecies in the Bible regarding the return of Christ have been fulfilled and that Christ has already returned, whereas Christians still are waiting for Him to come.

Christ or/and His Return are the true authorities.

 

[RESOLUTION]

Christians are entitled to believe how they understand. The difference I think here is that Baha'is believe the prophecies in the Bible regarding the return of Christ have been fulfilled and that Christ has already returned, whereas Christians still are waiting for Him to come.

Christ or/and His Return are the true authorities.

The clear truth on this, is Christ has not returned... Had he returned then death and sin would be no more.
The World would be living in peace. We are forewarned that many false prophets would come and try and lead believers astray.
But we are to trust in God with all our hearts, mind, spirit and body. Because trusting in God means we centre our hearts upon him. Christ said to love him you can only do that by Loving God with all your heart and your neighbour as yourself.
God always told us... Never rely on what you think you know. Simply trust in the LORD, and he will show you the right way to go.

 

[loverofhumanity]

How would you do this with everyone's agreement?

Christ taught he does not fix things. We can see him as an educator and he is not. He doesnt educate people because the words are not his own. Jesus doesnt call himself good. He humbles himself as a servant to god. He tells other people to be one body and puts emphasis on the people (not great teachers) so that the body worship god.

The Buddha says he is an educator and he wants to relieve suffering. He tells people that We have the enlightenment to end suffering. It doesnt come from god (for him any hindu god) but understanding and apppication of Knowledge.

You believe in god. He does not. How are two (and his followers) will agree with each other in order to change the world. You and The Buddha have similar goals. He does not see these goals a reflection of any god.

Krishna is a deity not an educator. We can see him as a deity in which we learn something. He is an incarnation of Vishnu. Though, taking out Hindu traditions and culture will make their religion and yours conflict.

How do you change the world to new if you dont agree with the forms other religions have in order to live and apply the same goals you want as a bahais?

Take out god, christ, The Dharma, Hindu culture and traditions, Muslim practices and Quran.

What is left? And how do you define whst they have left as a way to world peace IF depending on your answer they disagree with you about disregarding the form.?

As Baha'u'llah has ordained it nothing can prevent it from happening. All the forces of the world are being mobilized to exalt the status of women. This is abundantly clear to see everywhere. In every city, town, hamlet, suburb, religion, race, nationality and class, the status of women are being exalted whereas for the last 2,000 yrs they have been abased. Governments, businesses, organizations both sporting and other are all having policies now regarding the treatment and status of women.

There is worldwide general agreement. Do Baha'is feel resentful the world didn't first 'ask our permission' first to use one of our principles as we are the only religion in the world to have in such detail sacred scriptures exalting the status of women.? No we feel very pleased the world has 'stolen' these ideas and used them as they were given for the benefit of all humanity, for all women Bahá'í or not.

Whatever teaching Baha'u'llah has given to humanity they are free to copy and take for their own as it is for their betterment not to be possessed and dominated by one group of people. No one needs any permission to use any Bahá'í principle or teaching.

Ever since Baha'u'llah appeared He has begun the process of the emancipation of women.

We can already see throughout the entire world how the issue of women has become so dominant. That women have become tired of being sex objects and raped and abused and how the world community has begun to address this issue and it is being addressed more and more as time goes on until what Baha'u'llah said will happen.

The whole world is following Baha'u'llah's teachings though not knowing it.

UN Women

 

[loverofhumanity]

The clear truth on this, is Christ has not returned... Had he returned then death and sin would be no more.
The World would be living in peace. We are forewarned that many false prophets would come and try and lead believers astray.
But we are to trust in God with all our hearts, mind, spirit and body. Because trusting in God means we centre our hearts upon him. Christ said to love him you can only do that by Loving God with all your heart and your neighbour as yourself.
God always told us... Never rely on what you think you know. Simply trust in the LORD, and he will show you the right way to go.

There is balance in the Bible. It says true Prophets will come also not just false ones and that we shall know them by their fruits and a good tree doesn't bring forth bad fruit.

Christ says to 'Watch and pray' otherwise we could miss His return.

I saw Christ coming in the clouds with great Glory and the angels. I wonder why others didn't? My inner eyes perceived and my inner ears heard His Voice.

Remember what Christ said? He that hath ears let him hear and He that has eyes let him see. Christ clearly meant not our physical ears and eyes as everyone is born with them

 

[loverofhumanity]

It's too easy. We don't know anything for sure. We are told "believe" "have faith" "trust in the Word", but you make it so none of the previous "Words of God" as we now have them are trustworthy.

On top of that, what is written is turned around to say what Baha'u'llah says it means. So our "traditional" understanding of our Scriptures can only mean one thing and can only point to one person, Baha'u'llah. But because you say all these "manifestations" are true, they have to also point to each other. Again with twist and turns, making things symbolic, you do just that. Naturally, it works for you, because you chose to believe the Baha'i Faith.

But like so many of us here are saying, it is not unity. I think maybe Hinduism and/or Buddhism has something about "many paths" that lead to the same source. But, the Baha'i Faith talks "oneness" of all religions while at the same time rejecting all the religions by saying they have added "tradition" and have misinterpreted the true sayings of the founder. That rejection is the biggest argument going against you right now.

I can't agree there. Since being a Baha'i I have fallen in love with the teachings of all the other Faiths, Faiths I wouldn't have even looked at otherwise.

The love and reverence I feel for Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad etc is equal to the love I have for Bahaullah.

 

[loverofhumanity]

It's not getting so bad that I have to reply to my self... I just thought of something that ties in with this. Actually, you guys are awesome. Who else but a Baha'i could put up with all this? On threads questioning a Christian belief they can always use the cop out, "The Bible says it. I believe it. That settles it." That, of course, settles nothing. Which Bible "believing" religious group do we believe? The JW's? The Catholics? The Jews? One of Protestant groups? But you poor guys have to tell us we wrong... but in a nice way. You have to tell us "Baha'u'llah" is the only way... but also allow for all of us to be right and have a true religion and prophet or manifestation, or an incarnation of God too. Just that yours is the latest one and ours are passe'

Anyway, all religions are one and from the same source.... each manifestation brings us new teachings to get us to the next level. So...
"Ok, class I'm Moses. I'll be your 3rd grade teacher. I'm so glad you learned to do yoga and meditate from your Ist and 2nd grade teachers, Krishna and Buddha. We're going to be learning some great things. It'll be so exciting. First, get your things together, we're going on a road trip... a dirt road trip. We're going to explore the desert for the next 40 years.

In the desert... Ok, class be good and meditate or something. I'm going up the mountain for a few days and get your next class lesson from God. Be good and don't go worshiping Golden Calf's or something that is an abomination to the Lord. Bye.

Next Lesson... Now class, we have new rules. If you are bad, you can have a priest kill a goat or lamb and God will forgive you. If you're really bad, like do something, almost anything on Saturday, the Sabbath, the rest of us get to participate in a rock fight. Won't that be fun? Only thing is, we have all the rocks and you're the target. On and on it goes.

4the grade... Kyle why are you still a Jew? Don't you believe I'm the one and only teacher and I'm willing to and will die for you? Why don't you join the rest of my disciples Kenny the poor fisherman's son, Stan, the tax-gather's son and Cartman, the one who will betray for a song.

"Well teacher Jesus, I don't believe you're the true teacher. Moses told us to follow all the rules and that there is only one God."

"Kyle, there is only one God, and He and I are One... along with the Holy Spirit whom I'll send to keep you company after I depart."

"What are you trying to say?"

"Kyle, I am He. The first teacher and the last. I was from the beginning and will ever be."

At recess... Cartman, "What do you think guys. I think Jesus thinks he's God. We should turn him into the principal and get him fired."

Stan, "Cartman, you're an idiot. I think he's such a good teacher, that he's gotta be God in the flesh."

At the end of the semester... The Principal, "It's come to our attention, thanks to Eric Cartman, that you, Jesus, say you're God. I'm sorry but we're going to have to kill you."

The boys are off for summer vacation and are at the playground... Stan, "Who's that shooting hoops?"

Kenny mumbles, "It's Jesus. He's alive!"

Cartman says, "What? Ah, sorry guys I just remembered I have somewhere to be."

Anyway, 5th grade with Muhammad and 6th grade with the Bab? (a short, very short semester) Then on to Junior High with Baha'u'llah.

Hmmm, progressive? From the same one God? It's the craziest school I ever heard of. But, we are learning things and moving forward. So I guess you're right. It is progressive?

You should write a book. I really like your humor and I welcome your views and criticisms because they make us look at our faults to double check we are not being too naughty (just a bit) ha! Ha!

Whenever religion becomes more about who's right and who's wrong, about theological argument and dispute and no longer about love and unity towards all people then God sends His Representative to reset the compass of our hearts back towards love and forgiveness.

"Be thou a summoner to love, and be thou kind to all the human race. Love thou the children of men and share in their sorrows. Be thou of those who foster peace. Offer thy friendship, be worthy of trust. Be thou a balm to every sore, be thou a medicine for every ill. Bind thou the souls together." Abdul-Bahá


“Show ye an endeavor that all the nations and communities of the world, even the enemies, put their trust, assurance and hope in you; that if a person falls into errors for a hundred-thousand times he may yet turn his face to you, hopeful that you will forgive his sins; for he must not become hopeless, neither grieved nor despondent”

Bahá, Abdu’l. “Tablets of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá.”

 

[Dawnofhope]

The only difference is that I keep it to myself, while you go public (I think).

I'm happy to discuss ideas and beliefs with others. When others ask tough questions, as they have on this thread, I enjoy the opportunity to openly and sincerely investigate the issues.

In other words, what others believe doesn't bother me, while it bothers you enough to try to 'correct' them.

I enjoy the interaction and investigating he truth or otherwise of religious belief whether it be my own or others. On the other hand its important to always be respectful and courteous and avoid offending people.

One could say the same for me in this thread, but originally I came in just to correct misconceptions about Hinduism, but as time wore on I got dug in deeper, alas!

I have certainly been interested in your involvement with this thread and hope you feel comfortable to express your views and beliefs here.

Again, I thank you for having the humility to actually say you know little about Hinduism.

You're welcome. Thanks for stimulating my interest about your Faith.

I used to know less about Bahai than I do now too.

That's what its all about really. We learnt more about each others faiths.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Which is still nothing new. There's no use plugging Baha'i writings unless you can back up the claim that it was new. Even then, you should try to at the very least present it yourself, rather than just over-saturate the discussion with snippets of your holy text.

The writings combined with the ideas are an evidence of something new. You can find examples in different cultures at different times but the Baha'i faith encapsulates all the relevant ideas for the age we live in. Find another religion that does that.

The worldwide administrative order proposed by Baha'u'llah is another example. The Greeks had democracy but women were not allowed to vote. My country New Zealand was the first country to allow woman to vote in 1893. Baha'u'llah revealed this system around 1870. There is democracy in your country now as with mine but it is corrupted by ego driven politicians and unduly influenced by the financial elite. The Baha'i world order has mechanisms in place that prevent this kind of corruption.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Actually they could locate bodies where the vultures were. Christ tomb was guarded for the full time until his resurrection.
A soldier would have been put to death for derelict of duty. Many things show his body raised. But you don't have to accept that but can you trust your own beliefs when you so easily abandon them like the Israelites did. They often abandoned the LORD for an idol especially Ba'al, even when THEY saw the miracles God did. You see everyone has to make his own decision don't they?

No vultures? An empty tomb? Did the authors of the gospels actually see the alleged events they recorded regarding an empty tomb?

 

[RESOLUTION]

There is balance in the Bible. It says true Prophets will come also not just false ones and that we shall know them by their fruits and a good tree doesn't bring forth bad fruit.

Christ says to 'Watch and pray' otherwise we could miss His return.

I saw Christ coming in the clouds with great Glory and the angels. I wonder why others didn't? My inner eyes perceived and my inner ears heard His Voice.

Christ said:
together.

29.Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30.And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

All shall see Christ as he comes on the clouds the whole earth.

Remember what Christ said? He that hath ears let him hear and He that has eyes let him see. Christ clearly meant not our physical ears and eyes as everyone is born with them

Christ clearly shows the whole earth with physical ears and eyes will behold his coming again.
Many false prophets saying 'look here' and 'look there'claiming the Messiah returned. But clearly we see he hasn't because the whole world will witness it. It is with the spiritual ear and eyes we see and know the truth of the things the world cannot know. It is by Gods Spirit we learn the way God leads us.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Great point... however Christians believe Jesus' body is the same one that got resurrected. So no, it's not on Earth, it rose up to heaven. And don't tell that's impossible because that's what they believe, because that's what the NT says. You, of course, believe it's symbolic. They believe it is historically accurate. Somebody don't got it right.

One belief claims a physical resurrection, the other denies it. One belief is correct, the other not.

You get it from somebody that claims to be the return of Christ. They get it from supposed eyewitness and the gospel writers. Somebody has got the story wrong?

You don't need to believe in Baha'u'llah to work out whether or not a physical resurrection happened. Nor do we need religion to tell us that the earth revolves around the sun. Science and reason will give us the answer, even accounting for an omnipotent God.

 

[RESOLUTION]

No vultures? An empty tomb? Did the authors of the gospels actually see the alleged events they recorded regarding an empty tomb?

Do you not know the bible? King James Bible

Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.

Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.

If Christ was adding to Gods words and was lying why has God not reproved him and Christ been found a liar?

You see God does not tell lies. Isaiah

He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.


Isaiah mirrors the life of Christ. Something I note from Christs teaching is the two commandments.
Jesus said, " If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

1st. Love the LORD, they God with all thine heart, mind, body and soul.

2nd. Love your neighbour as you love yourself.

His example when being tested by Satan...

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.


Christ teaches us that we are to Love GOD first. In truth we can only love God by loving our neighbour.

1 John 4:20
20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

Christ said to imitate him to do as he did.

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.


So it is about truth which makes the difference.


13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

You have left the way of Christ, haven't you? So now seeing the truth from the bible do you still feel your way is the right way?
I am interested because it is about truth for myself. I seek to check what I believe is right.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Christ said:
together.

29.Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30.And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

All shall see Christ as he comes on the clouds the whole earth.




Christ clearly shows the whole earth with physical ears and eyes will behold his coming again.
Many false prophets saying 'look here' and 'look there'claiming the Messiah returned. But clearly we see he hasn't because the whole world will witness it. It is with the spiritual ear and eyes we see and know the truth of the things the world cannot know. It is by Gods Spirit we learn the way God leads us.

If the Jews got it wrong so can others. It wouldn't be the first time.

The Jews rejected His first Coming because He did not literally fulfil their expectations. He did not come as a King seated on the throne of David but as a spiritual King.

Likewise He said that He would come like a thief in the night so we could be asleep when He comes. That would mean that the verses you quoted are not literal and have a symbolical,meaning. Because not all eyes will see the thief and Christ said that.

The sun shall be darkened and the moon will not give her light and the stars shall fall from heaven. The leaders of religion are like the sun, moon and stars and in these days see how they have fallen and become materialistic and 'darkened' before all the world exactly as Christ predicted?

Not to mention Christ said in Revelation He would come with a New Name not the name Jesus.

Literal interpretation of Holy Books has always veiled man from God. It was a test to the Pharisees and Saducees and now Christians.

So when Christ told one of His disciples 'Let the dead bury the dead' you take that literally too? Some new translations even say spiritually dead now, meaning they cannot accept that words such as those are literal and they're not.

Daniel,was told to go his own way when trying to unseal the meaning of the book. And in Revelation it says 'no man on earth or in heaven' was found to unseal the Books.

So the meaning of the passage you quoted is sealed to the normal man. Only the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the coming Messiah can unseal the meanings.

That will be one of the proofs He is indeed the Messiah.

It says 'they shall see'. Where does it say 'all' shall see? that is your addition. 'They' could also mean those who have eyes to see not those who refuse to see.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Its hard to keep up Carlita. You have a spring in your step. Hope yesterday was good for you.

I don't understand how truth can't be someone's reality. It does say truth has to do with facts. Why would I believe something if it weren't a fact?

Truth relates to facts.

Many of our beliefs may actually be unquestioned assumptions we have about ourselves, people, and our culture.

Was it Socrates that said the unexamined life is not worth living?

I wish I could go through all 45 pages. The conversation is good but I don't know if you guys will read everything.

I've been reading and thinking about what you are saying. How well I do that is another story.

1. Are you guys saying you want to make a new world without dogma so that all religions are in union among diversity?

That sounds a little mixed up so the answer would have to be 'No'.

We wish to work towards a more peaceful world. We believe this peace is attainable. A significant barrier to peace is religious dogma and rhetoric. Currently we have many adherents of the two main Abrahamic faiths promoting misinformation about the other to arouse ill feeling towards the other. The presumed superiority that adherents of each faith based their beliefs on are false dogmas and beliefs.

Lets examine the Christian position:

(1) There is only one way to God and that is through Jesus.

(2) Jesus is the only true religion and all the others are false.

How can that be?

(a) Because Jesus is God in the flesh.

(b) Jesus physically rose from the dead.

(c) Jesus said He is the way, the truth, the light and nobody goes to the father except me.

Are these beliefs true? Do they assist towards better interfaith dialogue or understanding?

If so, why not get their permission and agreement first?

I think I've answered that above.

2. You guys refer to Bahaullah a lot. Do you understand that unity has no founder? If you don't care for dogma, exnay Bahuaullah's teachings and come to find peace without dogma, if that is your goal.

I have to go to class... but I was going to go through the thread but I dont know if you guys are reading my posts. Adrian, maybe you but dont know about loverofhumanity.

Unity does have a founder and that is each one of us. Are we contributing to a better more peaceful world or are we contributing to misunderstanding and intolerance?

Are we part of the solution or part of the problem?

If our religion assists us to better contribute positively then it makes sense to embrace it. If our religion results in discord and disunity then better to be without it.

How do you separate belief from truth?

Just because you believe in something doesn't make it true? Why do you believe in it if it may not make it true?

Each person's truth contradict because they are unique and individual unto that person. That is why there are many truths. When you make them one, they contradict. That's my point in understanding Bahaullah's purpose. When you make all religions with a common foundation, you take away those truths and then religions contradict each other.

Interfaith is discussing each other's truth. I think we call it beliefs to be politically correct, but I honestly don't feel people would just believe something if they know for a fact what they believe is true. Most religious state their beliefs as facts as a result. Many pagans and maybe just you or Bahai in general don't. It's confusing.

We're not trying to squeeze all the religions into the Baha'i mould. Rather we are fostering an essential spiritual process creating a more unified and peaceful world.

If a person's belief is racist and supremacist around his own kind, can we call that 'truth'. Likewise when a person believes his nation is the only nation that matters.

You can disagree with the Baha'i perspective on different religions but it has to be acknowledged the Baha'i view is very positive about those religions and the contributions they have made to humanity.

Since it comes from the person's perspective, the truth is individual and personal. Since we have many people in the world, we have many truths. I don't like calling what I know is true as beliefs because that's discrediting what I experience just as knowing the earth goes around the sun.

If those beliefs are racist or sexist I prefer to call those beliefs prejudice rather than truth.

If those beliefs promote one country only to the detriment of others I call this nationalism rather than truth.

At some point we need to draw a line in the sand and distinguish truth from falsehood, right from wrong.

It's literal.

When you take the wine and bread, you are coming into communon with the body of christ. When people come to communion, jesus appears in the Eucharist (when more than one come in my name). When jesus is made present in communion/Eucharist/the heart of the faith-the food of communion, it becomes a literal Passion when one lives in Christ (Mass), dies in Christ (act of repentance), and resurrected in Christ (taking the Eucharist).

Saying it's symbolic is calling people who come together in Christ symbolic. That's a genuine assertion but when you actually experience the sacraments, it's not symbolic.

Catholics believe this IS my blood and this IS my body (as above) is a literal event (as described above). This my reflect symbolism to you, but it isn't to Catholics. It's not a rebuttal scripture. It's just you're seeing it differently than a Catholic would.

We had different experiences. When I took the sacraments, I felt I was literally being washed of my sins when baptized in water. When I repented, it wasn't symbolic, I actually spoke to god, shared my sins to god, and been absolved by god. When I took the Eucharist I was literally with other people in the body of Christ. By my being there, I made Christ present in the Eucharist. So when we ate of the consecrated meal (not a symbolic meal), we lived, died, and rose in the Body of Christ. It's a beautiful experience when seen as an actual experience not a symbolic one. But many people probably get the same feeling from symbolism. I don't.

Lets agree that our experiences of communion were different but nonetheless profound for us both.

If it were symbolism, then would it matter the convenant. You can change beliefs just like a drop of a hat. However, you literally took the sacraments. You will always be Catholic (my opinion) regardless of how far you leave the Church. That's one thing I liked about the Church is Christ doesn't leave his body. Just both of us as non-practicing Catholics no longer commune with people (body) to make Christ present in the Eucharist. Nothing wrong with that. Doesn't change it's a fact and literal. Just we're not diggin' it anymore.

I've been a Baha'i for over 25 years so I don't change beliefs at the drop of a hat. Like you I will always have a profound connection to the Christian faith. I have a sense that growing up a Catholic is very different from growing up a Protestant.

Christ said He came to fulfil the law of Moses. Baha'u'llah came to fulfil the teachings of Christ.

I wish it was a place for art. It's my religion. Can't talk about religion without mentioning how I express it. I don't separate the two.

You can always include your art work in your posts.

You say that Hinduism prophized the coming of Bahaullah. You also mentioned Krisha as an educator and prophet. That's incorporating your interpretation of Hinduism in your faith.

Since you are different religions as you say, why is it in your religion. Since it is, that is why you are corrected by Hindu themselves. However, because it's your religion, I don't know if you can see how Bahai claim isn't true based on what Hindu know about their own religion rather than an outside party.

We are corrected by everyone, not just the Hindus. So you admit that beliefs can be false by suggesting Baha'i beliefs to be false?

As to the main question here, that would better be answered by a Hindu who has become a Baha'i.

In the meantime I'm comfortable about the obvious differences between Hindu and Baha'i belief.

Yeah. I would like to know more about the Pagan faith (Eureopian pre-christian religions). I'm a pagan (lower -p). They would call me new age. It also means someone who isn't christian, jew, or muslim. I also consider it a practice of values and culture I've been raised. It involves dance, physical prayer, and rituals. None too different than other religions. Just, Pagans are a lot older than the rest of you all.

On that note, I don't worship, so I believe in spirits. Gods are beings you worship or revere. I don't understand how a being can just exist without actually at once being a person or living environment. I say I'm pagan for convenience. I have no label. Just me. Artists probably find it hard to label themselves given the exotic flourishing nature of life and it's many truths

I didn't see that coming.

You sound like a Christian who no longer believes in the core Christian belief, namely a loving, just, omnipotent, and All-powerful God.

Thank you for clarifying your belief.

I'm a Christian who believes in that God, Jesus, and the authority and authenticity of the Bible. I believe Baha'u'llah is the son of man returned in the glory of the Father. Therefore I now call myself a Baha'i.

We have different beliefs and that is fine.

I'm not a "science-focused" person. Facts are psychological too. Not all facts are physical and need to be tested.

I worked in psychiatry for seven years before moving into general practice. Some psychological realities are unhealthy, believe me. Heard of cognitive behavioural therapy? Some people need to learn to question their beliefs because they hinder healthy and happy living.

What falsehood? what do you mean by false? and by who considers what one person's truth is false and another true?

Judge not lest ye be judged!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Carlita I was away yesterday and I noticed Adrian wished you a Happy Birthday may I send my best wishes to you too for a happy and prosperous future too.

You are special here. You really make me question things and I think you're really a very nice person.

Awww. Thank you. I appreciate that. Both you, @adrian009, and the others.

 

[Dawnofhope]

If Christ was adding to Gods words and was lying why has God not reproved him and Christ been found a liar?

Christ didn't write the bible.

You see God does not tell lies.

I never said He did.

You have left the way of Christ, haven't you?

No

 

[Unveiled Artist]

In the Lotus Sutra, the disciples put The Buddha up as well in the Dharmmapada. Many people saw him as a great man and he did say that he is no different than you and me. I consider him a great being, just is lifestyle and history was more humble. You have in some sutras he's just a regular ol' person talking with his disciples and other sutras, like the Lotus, the disciple's practically worship The Buddha. Also, The Buddha emphasized that he is not the person to go to enlightenment but The Dharma. Which makes more sense. I don't know if you heard the sutta that says "test the teacher". The manner in which Bahai see him as as great teacher is not a great teacher like Sacrates is but a sent by god. This makes "great" more than what The Buddha himself taught of himself. It's like Christ who didn't even call himself good, but people genuflect in front of him in high worship. Actually, I think most religious teachers humbled themselves in submission.

From the Dhammapada:

Driven by fear, men take to many a refuge, in mountains, forests, parks, sacred groves and shrines, but these are not a
secure kind of refuge. By taking to this sort of refuge one is not released from suffering. He who has gone to Buddha,
Dhamma and Sangha for refuge, though, and who with true wisdom understands the Four Noble Truths of Suffering, the
Origin of Suffering, the End of Suffering and the Noble Eightfold Path, leading to the Elimination of Suffering, this is a
secure refuge, this is the ultimate refuge; by taking to this refuge one is indeed released from all suffering. 188, 189, 190,
191,

A truly thoroughbred man (a Buddha) is hard to find. He is not born anywhere, but where that seer is born, the people
prosper.

Happy is the attainment of Buddhahood, happy the teaching of the true Teaching, happy is the concord of the Sangha,
happy the training of those in concord.

When a man venerates those worthy of veneration, be they Buddhas or their disciples, who have transcended all
obstacles and passed beyond sorrow and tears - venerating such as these, whose passions are extinguished and for whom
there is no further source for fear, no one can calculate how great his merit is.