How are you viewed by the RCC?

[*Paul*]

Just wondering, does the roman catholic church acknowledge the LDS church as seperated brethren as it does protestants? Has there been much dialogue between you?

 

[PHOTOTAKER]

Just wondering, does the roman catholic church acknowledge the LDS church as seperated brethren as it does protestants?

this would be a no...

Has there been much dialogue between you?

i don't know... i'll be interested to know what the other thank about this...

 

[Quiddity]

Just wondering, does the roman catholic church acknowledge the LDS church as seperated brethren as it does protestants?

We are definately not union with them if that's what you mean and consider some of their doctrines as innovations that are inconsistant with biblical and historical Christianity. I'm quite comfortable and certain that early christianity (100 AD and prior) was deffinately not LDS. But I'm sure any catholic stuff is placed in the apostasy bucket by our LDS brothers and sisters. It's not going to leave you with much to read.

Has there been much dialogue between you?

I actually own a couple CD's and tapes of Catholic and LDS debates. They are probably some of the most charitable, civil, and kind debates I've ever listened to. In my experience, we usually have a rather good realtionship with LDS.

 

[PHOTOTAKER]

I actually own a couple CD's and tapes of Catholic and LDS debates. They are probably some of the most charitable, civil, and kind debates I've ever listened to. In my experience, we usually have a rather good realtionship with LDS.

thats intesting what are the topics and who did the debait?

 

[Quiddity]

thats intesting what are the topics and who did the debait?

CD 1: Who holds the Keys, prophet or pope?
CD 2: Was the Book of Mormon inspired by God?

Catholic Representative: Patrick Madrid

Mormon Representatives: Elder Frank Bradshaw & Elder Gary Coleman

 

[MaddLlama]

Elder Gary Coleman

....I'm sorry....what? :sarcastic

Really? :sarcastic

 

[Quiddity]

....I'm sorry....what? :sarcastic

Really? :sarcastic

ROFL....:biglaugh: I kid you not. That's his real name.

 

[MaddLlama]

ROFL....:biglaugh: I kid you not. That's his real name.

Oh, ok but it's not the Gary Coleman. I got scared for a minute there....:run:

 

[PHOTOTAKER]

CD 1: Who holds the Keys, prophet or pope?
CD 2: Was the Book of Mormon inspired by God?

Catholic Representative: Patrick Madrid

Mormon Representatives: Elder Frank Bradshaw & Elder Gary Coleman

thanxs, i'll look into getting a copy of it... the closing remarks are in writen form online it seemed interesting...

photo

 

[*Paul*]

thanxs, i'll look into getting a copy of it... the closing remarks are in writen form online it seemed interesting...

photo

Could you post the link?

 

[PHOTOTAKER]

Could you post the link?

i thank this is it???

LDS/RCC dialogue

this was at the bottom of the page:

Disclaimer:

Both Mr. Clifford and Mr. Bickmore officially represent only themselves acting as private believers in Jesus Christ, and do not speak authoritatively for any church, organization, or other entity.
Mr. Clifford will present an argument which to the best of his knowledge and ability is in complete conformance to orthodox Catholic Christian teaching, but as an amateur layman he has no ecclesiastical teaching authority.

Mr. Bickmore will present an argument which he believes conforms to the essentials of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as taught by the "Four Standard Works" and other official LDS church documents. He too, is a layman and cannot claim to be in any way authoritative

 

[SoyLeche]

I don't know if this really belongs here, but I like this:

http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6179&x=57&y=0

The other point was the statement of a Catholic prelate who visited in Salt Lake. Brother Orson F. Whitney told about his visit--he said he could speak a dozen different languages and knew all about science and religion. The prelate's comment was this: You Mormons are all ignoramuses. You don't even know the strength of your own position. It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. . . . If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong; and that's all there is to it. The Protestants haven't a leg to stand on. For, if we are wrong, they are wrong with us, since they . . . went out from us; while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago. [quoted in LeGrand Richards, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder, p. 3]

 

[*Paul*]

i thank this is it???
LDS/RCC dialogue

This is a really good debate, have you read it? It has all four rounds of the debate in text form to be read.

 

[Quiddity]

i thank this is it???

LDS/RCC dialogue

this was at the bottom of the page:

The names don't even match.
That isn't it. I usually try sticking to apologists and theologians I'm familiar with. You'd be surprised what people will do. Some manufacture debates to help their position.

You can download it here:
https://www.surprisedbytruth.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=109&bc=no

Or buy the CDs here:
http://www.surprisedbytruth.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=46

Here is a debate on the Apostasy and Trinity:
http://www.surprisedbytruth.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=45

 

[Quiddity]

I don't know if this really belongs here, but I like this:

http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6179&x=57&y=0

The other point was the statement of a Catholic prelate who visited in Salt Lake. Brother Orson F. Whitney told about his visit--he said he could speak a dozen different languages and knew all about science and religion. The prelate's comment was this: You Mormons are all ignoramuses. You don't even know the strength of your own position. It is so strong that there is only one other tenable in the whole Christian world, and that is the position of the Catholic Church. . . . If we are right, you are wrong; if you are right, we are wrong; and that's all there is to it. The Protestants haven't a leg to stand on. For, if we are wrong, they are wrong with us, since they . . . went out from us; while if we are right, they are apostates whom we cut off long ago.

I remember hearing that some time back. There is some truth to that. If the Catholic Church's stance on certain topics goes down in flames, then so does Eastern Orthdoxy, Protestantism, Anglicanism, and pretty much all branches connected to us.

 

[Katzpur]

We are definately not union with them if that's what you mean and consider some of their doctrines as innovations that are inconsistant with biblical and historical Christianity.

I would definitely agree that a lot of LDS doctrine is inconsistent with historical Christianity, but would disagree that it's inconsistent with biblical Christianity. I've even heard prominent non-LDS scholars say as much.

I'm quite

comfortable and certain that early christianity (100 AD and prior) was deffinately not LDS.

And not surprisingly, I'm just as certain that it was. :yes: Incidentally, "Restoring the Ancient Church" by Barry Bickmore. This book, available on www.amazon.com, is jam packed with parallels between Mormonism and early Christianity and is extremely well-documented.

But I'm sure any catholic stuff is placed in the apostasy bucket by our LDS brothers and sisters. It's not going to leave you with much to read.

That would depend, VIctor, on its source. I can pretty much guarantee you that we would not toss anything the Apostles said into the apostasy bucket.

I actually own a couple CD's and tapes of Catholic and LDS debates. They are probably some of the most charitable, civil, and kind debates I've ever listened to. In my experience, we usually have a rather good realtionship with LDS.

The fact that they're charitable, civil and kind doesn't surprise me in the slightest. For some reason Catholics and Latter-day Saints generally seem to be able to get along pretty well, in spite of our differences of opinion.

 

[Quiddity]

I would definitely agree that a lot of LDS doctrine is inconsistent with historical Christianity, but would disagree that it's inconsistent with biblical Christianity. I've even heard prominent non-LDS scholars say as much.

Of course they are out there. But LDS along with some other Protestant denominations are pretty much alone in respect of rejecting most of it.

And not surprisingly, I'm just as certain that it was. :yes: Incidentally, "Restoring the Ancient Church" by Barry Bickmore. This book, available on www.amazon.com, is jam packed with parallels between Mormonism and early Christianity and is extremely well-documented.

Ah Mr. Bickmore! I've had the pleasure of reading his material before. I'd be more then willing to read more of his material.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/im.../105-7419617-3677217?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

That would depend, VIctor, on its source. I can pretty much guarantee you that we would not toss anything the Apostles said into the apostasy bucket.

I'm well aware of that. Unfortantely (or fortunately, depending on the reader) the Apostles were not the sum of the Church and they certainly weren't the only ones who's inspired writings we both accept. Seems rather beneficiary to accept it in one regard and yet extend it to others outside of the Apostles (non-Apostolic writers in the Bible) in another regard. I've never understood that.

The fact that they're charitable, civil and kind doesn't surprise me in the slightest. For some reason Catholics and Latter-day Saints generally seem to be able to get along pretty well, in spite of our differences of opinion.

That's usually all I see between them.

 

[PHOTOTAKER]

The names don't even match.
That isn't it. I usually try sticking to apologists and theologians I'm familiar with. You'd be surprised what people will do. Some manufacture debates to help their position.

i noticed that... :bonk:

 

[athanasius]

The debates that Victor described between Mr Patrick Madrid(Catholic Apologist) and Frank Bradshaw(Mormon elder) are excellent.