How can a Jew reject Jesus as the Messiah?

[PruePhillip]

Most if not all of the New Testament books were written before AD 70, about 40 years after the death of Jesus.

Paul's earliest epistle was written about AD 50.
Luke wrote first his Gospel and then The Acts before his last trip to
Rome with Paul about AD 66, if I recall.
He quotes Matt and Mark so these two were in circulation by then also.
John's Gospel was written very late, maybe 80 or 90 AD.

People who claim the Gospels were written after AD70 do so largely because
Jesus spoke of the destruction of the temple. This happened in AD 70. They
think Jesus could not foresee the future - but not only did Jesus speak of the
temple falling but he referred to the return of the Jews to Jerusalem one day.
That day was 1967 - and the Gospels were not written after 1967.

 

[Ehav4Ever]

I just wanted to know your reading of Job 19:25.

It appears you are not comfortable reading Iyov (Job) from start to finish using only the Hebrew text. Maybe you feel that the Hebrew text and the context don't support your position. That is okay. If you change your mind about my Zoom offer let me know. cheers.

 

[Skywalker]

Paul's earliest epistle was written about AD 50.
Luke wrote first his Gospel and then The Acts before his last trip to
Rome with Paul about AD 66, if I recall.
He quotes Matt and Mark so these two were in circulation by then also.
John's Gospel was written very late, maybe 80 or 90 AD.

People who claim the Gospels were written after AD70 do so largely because
Jesus spoke of the destruction of the temple. This happened in AD 70. They
think Jesus could not foresee the future - but not only did Jesus speak of the
temple falling but he referred to the return of the Jews to Jerusalem one day.
That day was 1967 - and the Gospels were not written after 1967.

Jesus preformed miracles and taught profound truths. He scolded and befuddled the priests in charge of the temple. Incredibly, he predicts his own death and ressurection. He also predicts that the temple itself will be destroyed before your generation passes away. (Mark 13:2, 30).

 

[Skywalker]

Paul's earliest epistle was written about AD 50.
Luke wrote first his Gospel and then The Acts before his last trip to
Rome with Paul about AD 66, if I recall.
He quotes Matt and Mark so these two were in circulation by then also.
John's Gospel was written very late, maybe 80 or 90 AD.

People who claim the Gospels were written after AD70 do so largely because
Jesus spoke of the destruction of the temple. This happened in AD 70. They
think Jesus could not foresee the future - but not only did Jesus speak of the
temple falling but he referred to the return of the Jews to Jerusalem one day.
That day was 1967 - and the Gospels were not written after 1967.

.

Jesus is crucified on the Eve of the Passover, ressurected, and ascended to heaven. Forty years later, the temple is destroyed, just as Jesus had predicted, along with the entire city and thousands of your countrymen.

Most, if not all, of the documents must have been written prior to 70. If you and your fellow-followers write accounts of Jesus after the temple and city were destroyed in AD 70, aren't you going to at least mention that unprecedented national, human, economic, and religious tragedy somewhere in your writings, especially since the risen Jesus had predicted it? Of course! Well, here's the problem for those who say the New Testament was written after 70-there's absolutely no mention of the fulfillment of this predicted tragedy anywhere in the New Testament documents.

 

[danieldemol]

That's fascinating, so in Judaism the Messiah doesn't have to be a 'real' king either.

Just goes to show Jews are capable of post hoc rationalisation.

 

[YoursTrue]

The meekness and mildness of Jesus was beyond human character. It was a sign that Jesus was God. Jesus taught to turn the other cheek.

We differ on that. It was not a sign that Jesus was God. It was a fulfillment of the prophecy that he would be led like a lamb to the slaughter. And frankly that he was NOT God. God cannot die. Humans die. When he was dying, Jesus cried out to God. He often prayed to God. He was not God. You can say he was God equal to the other two godpersons all you want, but the scriptures do not add up to that.
Hebrews 5:7 -- "During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save him from death, and he was heard because of His reverence."

He didn't pray with loud cries and tears to his equal, or two equals. He prayed to the One (not two or three in one), who could save him from death. And he was heard because of his reverence.
To say that Jesus is God, one of three godpersons each equal to the others yet one entity, is a misleading fabrication and blasphemy.

P.S. other Christians were killed, they didn't fight back or get even. That does not make them God equal to God(s).

 

[Skywalker]

We differ on that. It was not a sign that Jesus was God. It was a fulfillment of the prophecy that he would be led like a lamb to the slaughter. And frankly that he was NOT God. God cannot die. Humans die. When he was dying, Jesus cried out to God. He often prayed to God. He was not God. You can say he was God equal to the other two godpersons all you want, but the scriptures do not add up to that.
Hebrews 5:7 -- "During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save him from death, and he was heard because of His reverence."

He didn't pray with loud cries and tears to his equal, or two equals. He prayed to the One (not two or three in one), who could save him from death. And he was heard because of his reverence.
To say that Jesus is God, one of three godpersons each equal to the others yet one entity, is a misleading fabrication and blasphemy.

P.S. other Christians were killed, they didn't fight back or get even. That does not make them God equal to God(s).

Jesus is God but he is distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. In Luke 3:21,22 Jesus was on the earth, the Father spoke to him from heaven, and the Holy Spirit who descended in a bodily form as a dove, upon him.

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm not saying to trust or believe me. Believe HaShem. I don't agree with JW because they believe that Jesus is Michael the Archangel. Jesus is God. There is some truth to what those groups believe because they believe in the Bible, but I can't agree with anyone who doesn't believe that Jesus is our Creator and Savior. I don't disagree with following kosher and Jesus but the emphasis of Hebrew words doesn't sound godly. I don't agree with the belief that Jesus and Lucifer are brothers because I believe that God is the Messiah.

You have no idea who Michael is, apparently. Jesus is not God equal to his Father and the so-called 3rd godperson combining of sorts in your mind and others minds to be one God. It isn't true. Unfortunately, Skywalker, you have it all mixed up, and I say this with sadness.

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus is God but he is distinct from the Father and the Holy Spirit. In Luke 3:21,22 Jesus was on the earth, the Father spoke to him from heaven, and the Holy Spirit who descended in a bodily form as a dove, upon him.

That's partially the trinity teaching, it's not biblical. You want to say the third person of the trinity God always looks like a dove? My mother would say 'knock it off.'' But if that's what you believe, yes -- although I feel so sorry for you because you're not thinking properly in harmony with reality and the scriptures, God is the judge. And He will judge properly.
It's not at all in harmony with the scriptures:
Hebrews 5: During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the One who could save him from death, and he was heard because of His reverence."

 

[Skywalker]

You have no idea who Michael is, apparently. Jesus is not God equal to his Father and the so-called 3rd godperson combining of sorts in your mind and others minds to be one God. It isn't true. Unfortunately, Skywalker, you have it all mixed up, and I say this with sadness.

If Jesus is God he is equal to the Father. The idea of junior deities is pagan doctrine. The name Michael means one who is like God but that doesn't mean that Jesus is Michael the archangel. Jehovah's Witnesses LIE!

JWs staunchly deny the Biblical teaching that Jesus Christ is GOD ALMIGHTY! JWs claim that Jesus is "a god"; but not "Almighty God." Well, the Bible says in black and white that Jesus is the "Almighty." Revelation 1:8 states, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty." In Isaiah 9:6, Jesus is called "The mighty God." John 10:33 states, "The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God." Clearly, Jesus proclaimed Himself as God Almighty! The strongest evidence found in the Bible concerning Christ's deity is John 1:1,14 which states, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God ... And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." Jesus is the Living Word, and the Bible is the Written Word.

The false Jesus of the Jehovah's Witnesses is NOT the Jesus of the Word of God. JWs also deny the Godhead, that God literally exists in three separate beings (Romans 1:20; Colossians 2:9), yet one in every way (Deuteronomy 6:4; 1st John 5:7). JWs don't believe that the Holy Spirit of God indwells each believer. JWs don't recognize the Holy Spirit as a Person. A common heresy nowadays is the belief that God created the universe THROUGH Christ; but, not BY Christ Himself. On the contrary, we read in Colossians 1:16, "For BY HIM were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him." The Jesus of the Bible is the Creator of the universe. John 1:10, "He was in the world, and the world was made BY HIM, and the world knew him not." The Jesus of the Bible is NOT the Jesus of the Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[YoursTrue]

I see no contradiction between a God who loves and forgives, and a God who brings judgment. True justice is what we deserve, whereas mercy is really only God's to offer. Mercy is the same as opportunity. It's the opportunity to acknowledge sin and live in a new way.

There's an informative passage in 2 Peter 3:8 that says, 'The Lord is not slack concerning his promise [to bring judgment], as some men count slackness; but is long-suffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.'

Mercy is, I believe, forgiveness with a purpose. God's love is wanting us to do what is holy, and to live according to his standard of righteousness.

The story of Lazarus and the rich man may be nearer to the literal truth than you imagine. If souls descend into the grave (sheol), there to await the day of the Lord's coming, then I cannot see any reason why the grave may not itself be divided, with a gulf between the faithful (those in Abraham's bosom) and unfaithful.

But more important than waiting for an outcome that's hard to predict is to get things right now!

That's right, although God is love, He also brings judgment. That is part of love, otherwise He wouldn't do it. If He did not bring judgment, then what? I'm not going to argue about what is considered hellfire. Or eternal torment, because before I started learning more about God, I was told that only God can help. And I found that to be true.

 

[YoursTrue]

If Jesus is God he is equal to the Father. The idea of junior deities is pagan doctrine. The name Michael means one who is like God but that doesn't mean that Jesus is Michael the archangel. Jehovah's Witnesses LIE!

I'm afraid you don't know who Michael is. So I wish you well. I learned a long time ago that only God can help a person come to an accurate knowledge of the truth.

 

[Skywalker]

That's right, although God is love, He also brings judgment. That is part of love, otherwise He wouldn't do it. If He did not bring judgment, then what? I'm not going to argue about what is considered hellfire. Or eternal torment, because before I started learning more about God, I was told that only God can help. And I found that to be true.

Even the most fair judge has to bring judgement.

I believe that hell is being eternally lonely and separated from God. Fire and brimstone is metaphoric of how terrible that is.

 

[YoursTrue]

Even the most fair judge has to bring judgement.

I believe that hell is being eternally lonely and separated from God. Fire and brimstone is metaphoric of how terrible that is.

You can believe what you want. The scriptures do not indicate what you say. However, it is God alone that can teach right from wrong.

 

[Skywalker]

I'm afraid you don't know who Michael is. So I wish you well. I learned a long time ago that only God can help a person come to an accurate knowledge of the truth.

Michael is the only angel described in the Bible as an archangel. His name means one who is like God. How can Jesus be God without being equal to the Father? Jesus is equal in essence even though he submits to the Father. Jehovah's Witnesses LIE!

JWs believe that Jesus Christ was Michael, the archangel, incarnate. JWs believe that Jesus was only an angel in the flesh, a god; but, not Almighty God.

 

[YoursTrue]

Michael is the only angel described in the Bible as an archangel. His name means one who is like God. How can Jesus be God without being equal to the Father? Jesus is equal in essence even though he submits to the Father. Jehovah's Witnesses LIE!

lolol...ok. You really need to go back to the Bible and keep learning. And I'm not getting into it with you now. except to say "equal in essence." Equal in essence? Is that why he prayed to go back to be with the Father? Sad, sad, sad..

 

[Skywalker]

You can believe what you want. The scriptures do not indicate what you say. However, it is God alone that can teach right from wrong.

Hell and God being just is mentioned as early as the Old Testament. Sheol is not the grave. Why would the wicked go to Sheol? God was just when he judged the Canaanites.

 

[YoursTrue]

Michael is the only angel described in the Bible as an archangel. His name means one who is like God. How can Jesus be God without being equal to the Father? Jesus is equal in essence even though he submits to the Father. Jehovah's Witnesses LIE!

It doesn't mean that Jesus is equal to God, never did. Your idea and understanding of God is not what the Bible teaches. Want to give an explanation why Jesus said the Father is greater than he is?

 

[YoursTrue]

Hell and God being just is mentioned as early as the Old Testament. Sheol is not the grave. Why would the wicked go to Sheol? God was just when he judged the Canaanites.

So? It doesn't mean that there is fire in hell. You worship a cruel god. I worship the God with power of life and death, including the allowing of Jesus, his son, to die.

 

[Skywalker]

lolol...ok. You really need to go back to the Bible and keep learning. And I'm not getting into it with you now. except to say "equal in essence." Equal in essence? Is that why he prayed to go back to be with the Father? Sad, sad, sad..

I am equal in essence to the President, even though he has more authority than me. He's no more of a man than I am.