How can some Americans support a traitor for a President?

[Stevicus]

It was blue Cool-aid that freed the slaves, gave women the vote, banned child labor, established the eight hour day and minimum wage, legalized unions, promoted equal justice, established health and safety regulations, established public education, created a middle class, &al...
As I recall, it was the lovers of red Cool-aid that vigorously opposed all of these -- as well as being the ones who sent the aforementioned jobs overseas.

So yes. Democracy, justice and government of, by and for the people -- blue Cool-aid -- really is that good.

Here's a fun fact: Blue Kool-Aid will make one's poop turn green.

 

[PureX]

What you wrote is contrary to history. It was the Republican party that freed the slaves and the Democrats that opposed freeing them. It was Republicans that championed giving women the vote, ( Suffrage - Women in the GOP ) not the Democrats. Republicans are the party of equality and championing for individual rights. Democrats, not so much.

The "blue coolaide" comment was in regard to "the left", not to democrats.

And it was SOUTHERN democrats that opposed emancipation and suffrage, not democrats as a whole. And it's why they all became republicans when the democratic party did finally begin to push for equality and the and of 'Jim Crow' laws in the south. So let's not pretend republicans are the party of forward thinking and equal rights. Especially while they are actively fighting women's reproductive rights, gay rights, voting rights, union rights, and equal access to health care and education for all (not just the rich).

 

[tytlyf]

It was the Republican party that freed the slaves and the Democrats that opposed freeing them. It was Republicans that championed giving women the vote,

Progressives were Republicans while southern DemoKKKrats were conservatives.
How many times do we need to go through this? Abraham Lincoln wasn't a conservative.
The south was heavily DemoKKKrat and they were heavily Conservative.
I'd suggest learning American history.

"It was progressives that freed the slaves and conservatives that opposed freeing them. It was progressives that championed giving women the vote."

I fixed your quote.

Read. Learn.

Southern Democrats - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Valjean]

What you wrote is contrary to history. It was the Republican party that freed the slaves and the Democrats that opposed freeing them. It was Republicans that championed giving women the vote, ( Suffrage - Women in the GOP ) not the Democrats. Republicans are the party of equality and championing for individual rights. Democrats, not so much.

The Republicans, at the time, were the liberals/progressives. Party policies change. Progressive policies pop up in different parties at different times.

Perhaps I should have been clearer. I was equating blue with progressive, Left, or (American) liberal, as currently understood; and red with conservative, traditional, or even reactionary.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Then we have a lot of traitors in government. Why single out Donald Trump?

---> ignore-list

 

[Unfettered]

The president is the commander in chief of the armed forces. If he believes that the soldiers are fools and suckers and that dead soldiers are losers then he is betraying the army that he is the chief of and thereby betraying the office of the President.

How is that a betrayal? Or traitorous? It sounds to me like an opinion. Treason would manifest in some kind of selling out of the soldiers—turning them over to actual harm without lawful justification. Something like that.

 

[Shaul]

The "blue coolaide" comment was in regard to "the left", not to democrats.

And it was SOUTHERN democrats that opposed emancipation and suffrage, not democrats as a whole. And it's why they all became republicans when the democratic party did finally begin to push for equality and the and of 'Jim Crow' laws in the south. So let's not pretend republicans are the party of forward thinking and equal rights. Especially while they are actively fighting women's reproductive rights, gay rights, voting rights, union rights, and equal access to health care and education for all (not just the rich).

No, it was both Northern and Southern Democrats. Democrats continued to push for inequality even after Republicans got rid of Jim Crow laws with the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Indeed a certain Delaware Senator named Joseph Biden was still pushing against school busing even ten years later. He even quoting the "N word" in the Senate as late as 1985. It is a lie to say the racists left the Democrat party for the Republican party. That never happened. Republicans are the true party for the disadvantaged and the downtrodden. Republican principles are to give the disadvantaged a level playing field and a helping hand. Democrats just want to control the playing field and give handouts.

 

[Revoltingest]

If we're talking about Donald Trump, I don't believe he has done anything traitorous. I think he's done some foolish and juvenile things, but not traitorous.

There was the attempted coup in 2020.
That’s treason.

 

[Unfettered]

---> ignore-list

Seems petty, since all I did was share an opinion. But I celebrate your right to do it.

 

[Unfettered]

There was the attempted coup in 2020.
That’s treason.

As yet, I've not seen evidence that Donald Trump attempted a coup, though I understand the process by which others have come to believe that he did attempt a coup.

 

[PureX]

How is that a betrayal? Or traitorous? It sounds to me like an opinion. Treason would manifest in some kind of selling out of the soldiers—turning them over to actual harm without lawful justification. Something like that.

Seeking and then accepting responsibility for sending U.S. citizens into battle when you have no concern or respect for their well being is a HUGE betrayal. It's "selling them out" in the more profound way possible.

 

[Bthoth]

As yet, I've not seen evidence that Donald Trump attempted a coup, though I understand the process by which others have come to believe that he did attempt a coup.

jan 6................. HE actually wanted to stop pence from signing the transition of power. That was why the attack on the building occurred.

If trump would have tried to use violence by his own hand (with weapons) he would not be alive today.

 

[Unfettered]

Seeking and then accepting responsibility for sending U.S. citizens into battle when you have no concern or respect for their well being is a HUGE betrayal. It's "selling them out" in the more profoud way possible.

I appreciate that view, but as yet don't agree that it constitutes treason. Perhaps we should look at the actual words he said. Can you produce them here?

 

[Unfettered]

jan 6................. HE actually wanted to stop pence from signing the transition of power. That was why the attack on the building occurred.

If trump would have tried to use violence by his own hand (with weapons) he would not be alive today.

On what basis do you claim that then-President Trump "wanted to stop Pence from signing the transition of power"? If it was something he said, perhaps produce it here, word for word. If it was something he wrote that is in the public domain, perhaps produce it here, word for word. Let's look at it.

 

[Bthoth]

On what basis do you claim that then-President Trump "wanted to stop Pence from signing the transition of power"? If it was something he said, perhaps produce it here, word for word. If it was something he wrote that is in the public domain, perhaps produce it here, word for word. Let's look at it.

Are you expecting me to do the homework for you?

 

[Unfettered]

Are you expecting me to do the homework for you?

I'm not expecting you to do anything. I watched President Trump's Jan 6 address back when it was fresh, and again later when people started making claims about coups and such. In neither of my viewings of the address did I find justification for any claim of a coup, treason, or any other serious crime. Since we don't all conclude the same things, it is necessary that I ask a person to disclose, with specificity, the thing that compelled him to conclude differently than me when each of us claims the same source as the basis of our respective conclusions. Otherwise I'm left to either make guesses, or read minds. And those things don't have a track record of high success as it pertains to productive discussion.

So no, I'm not requiring anyone to produce anything; it is simply part of good-faith discourse to do so.

 

[Bthoth]

“I think it’s important that the American people know what happened in the days before January 6,” Pence said. “President Trump demanded that I use my authority as vice president presiding over the count of the Electoral College to essentially overturn the election by returning or literally rejecting votes. I had no authority to do that.”


“As the January 6 congressional certification proceeding approached and other efforts to impair, obstruct, and defeat the federal government function failed, the Defendant [Trump] sought to enlist the Vice President to use his ceremonial role at the certification to fraudulently alter the election results. The Defendant did this first by using knowingly false claims of election fraud to convince the Vice President to accept the Defendant’s fraudulent electors, reject legitimate electoral votes, or send legitimate electoral votes to state legislatures for review rather than count them. When that failed, the Defendant attempted to use a crowd of supporters that he had gathered in Washington, D.C., to pressure the Vice President to fraudulently alter the election results.”



I will return to my previous claim: "anyone that voted for trump should lose their right to vote, just like any other criminal/felon."

 

[PureX]

I appreciate that view, but as yet don't agree that it constitutes treason. Perhaps we should look at the actual words he said. Can you produce them here?

Here is the exact statement from John Kelly, Trump's own Chief of Staff. (1:50 - 3:30)

 

[Subduction Zone]

What you wrote is contrary to history. It was the Republican party that freed the slaves and the Democrats that opposed freeing them. It was Republicans that championed giving women the vote, ( Suffrage - Women in the GOP ) not the Democrats. Republicans are the party of equality and championing for individual rights. Democrats, not so much.

Yes, they did that. In the past. Your post should read "Republicans were the party of equality and championing for individual rights.

It has not been that way for quite some time now.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm not expecting you to do anything. I watched President Trump's Jan 6 address back when it was fresh, and again later when people started making claims about coups and such. In neither of my viewings of the address did I find justification for any claim of a coup, treason, or any other serious crime. Since we don't all conclude the same things, it is necessary that I ask a person to disclose, with specificity, the thing that compelled him to conclude differently than me when each of us claims the same source as the basis of our respective conclusions. Otherwise I'm left to either make guesses, or read minds. And those things don't have a track record of high success as it pertains to productive discussion.

So no, I'm not requiring anyone to produce anything; it is simply part of good-faith discourse to do so.

That is an example of you just deluding yourself then. I watched the speech to and I could hear him clearly exhorting his followers to attack Congress. Trump is an incompetent fool, but he is not a total idiot. He knew that he could not say "Let's go attack Congress and kill its leaders". But what he said made many believe that that was what he wanted them to do and he did nothing to disillusion themselves from that belief.

You should not be bending over backwards (or perhaps forwards) to try to defend such a vile human being.