How can you tell if a Prophet is true?

[Sumadji]

LOOK >>>>> HERE>>>>> A corpse named Jesus was deposited into a Tomb .. how they managed to convince the Romans to let them have the corpse .. being the whole purpose of Crucifixion was to leave the corpse on the stick to horrify people .. deter would be criminals. .. but OK .. somehow they got the corpse .. a corpse that was not alive .. but dead .. Jesus having used his last breath calling out his God for forsaking him.

OK ?? <dead corpse> .. is taken and put in a cave .. which was then sealed ... 3 days later .. when some women come .. but find the tomb unsealed.. and some Man is sitting in the cave who tells them not to be afraid .. that Jesus has Risen .. to to go tell the disciples you will see him in Galilee "Just as he told you" .. implying that there was some plan to meet in Galalee ..

The women however have none of it .. think this fellow in the tomb is a quack ... They run out of the tomb "in terror and bewildermen"

8 Then[g] they went out and ran from the tomb, for terror and bewilderment had seized them.[h] And they said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.

--------

Presumably this story was related to the author of Mark at a latere date . There is no "Risen" to anywhere .. the body is gone ... and some grave robber left in the tomb .. his job likely to reseal it but the women surprise him ... and like the Grinch .. and knowing Jesus .. tells the women he has been resurrected to heaven .. Whom -ever this dude was .. the women don't believe a word .. the Run away terrified and say nothing to anyone ..

Now ... from this you want us to assume that the dead corpse .. just like the Zombie movies ... wakes up and starts wandering towards Galilee.

Sorry .. what the man in the cave meant by "he is Risen" should be taken as he is resurrected .. Gone to heaven .. but it really matters not .. because the women didn't believe what he was peddling .. what ever he meant .. to them Jesus was dead .. the body was gone .. maybe he went to heaven.

Paul talks about appearances .. but this is from stories many many years after the death of Jesus .. but even then .. Paul likens these appearances to his Vision ... hearing voices in the clouds .. seeing a light .. depending on which of the 3 different versions of his encounter on the Road to Demascus .. None of which however speak to a physical resurrection .. Zombie Jesus wandering around .. Holes ands all .. cause he is a God and can do what he wants ... Fine . I am all good with eastern mysticism ..but that does not change the fact that the original version of the story does not have the corpse of Jesus wandering around talking to people. .. this is not Paul's idea of resurrection .. this not Clement's idea of resurrection .. none have heard any stories of the corpse of Jesus wandering around the earth after death .. As a corpse .. talking to people . and having them put finger in the holes.... appearing really desperate to provide a smoking gun.

Sorry ... the Zombie Zesus story is simple non existent in the gospel of Mark .. Paul does not know of any Zombie Jesus stories ... neither does Clement .. which if you has read a few lines .. can clearly see that ther is no Smoking Gun that he is aware of.

@Sargonski

Christ raised lazarus from the dead after several days

You cannot say that Paul, and the author of Mark, and Clement did not know about the resurrected (glorified) Jesus Christ walking around simply because they do not mention it. Probably the fact was so well known there was no need to mention it.

Later gospel authors realized the need to make it clear for later generations what had actually occurred.

It's just as plausible. There's no way of knowing from the writings.

So perhaps we should just agree to differ?

 

[Trailblazer]

So, a person claiming to be a manifestation that has been sent by God confirms what is the word of God? But who confirms that a person is a "manifestation" of God? Like I keep asking Baha'is... Where does it say that Adam, Noah, Abraham, and Moses were "manifestations" of God? Other than in the Baha'i writings?

Baha'u'llah did not say that Adam, Noah, Abraham, and Moses were manifestations of God. Baha'u'llah referred to them as prophets in The Kitab-i-Iqan. There are different kinds of prophets. Not all prophets are manifestations of God.

Question: How many kinds of divine Prophets are there?

Answer: There are three kinds of divine Prophets. One kind are the universal Manifestations, which are even as the sun. Through Their advent the world of existence is renewed, a new cycle is inaugurated, a new religion is revealed, souls are quickened to a new life, and East and West are flooded with light. These Souls are the universal Manifestations of God and have been sent forth to the entire world and the generality of mankind.

Another kind of Prophets are followers and promulgators, not leaders and law-givers, but they are nonetheless the recipients of the hidden inspirations of God. Yet another kind are Prophets Whose prophethood has been limited to a particular locality. But the universal Manifestations are all-encompassing: They are like the root, and all others are as the branches; they are like the sun, and all others are as the moon and the stars.

https://www.bahai.org/library/authoritative-texts/abdul-baha/additional-tablets-extracts-talks/491087709/1#155069811

I don't care what other Baha'is believe. Adam, Noah, Abraham, and Moses cannot be universal Manifestations of God because they were not sent forth to the entire world and the generality of mankind. Only Christ and Baha'u'llah were sent to and for all of mankind.

Which, conveniently, makes it look like there was a progression of "manifestations"... just like Baha'i Faith say there is. It's amazing how the new Abrahamic religion interprets Scriptures of the past Abrahamic religions to make themselves look like they are the legitimate replacement.

History tells us that there has been a progression of prophets/messengers of God ... just like Baha'i Faith say there is.
Judaism, Christianity and Islam all believe they have the last/best/final prophet/messenger of God but there is no reason to believe that progression came to an end after any given prophet/messenger appeared.

The Baha'i Faith does not claim to be a replacement for the other prophets/messengers of God, nor do we claim that Baha'u'llah was the last/best/final prophet/messenger of God who came to earth. Rather, we believe that Baha'u'llah was the last in a series of messengers who have come to earth thus far.

We believe that there will be more messengers of God who will come in the future.

"From the foregoing passages and allusions it hath been made indubitably clear that in the kingdoms of earth and heaven there must needs be manifested a Being, an Essence Who shall act as a Manifestation and Vehicle for the transmission of the grace of the Divinity Itself, the Sovereign Lord of all. Through the Teachings of this Day Star of Truth every man will advance and develop until he attaineth the station at which he can manifest all the potential forces with which his inmost true self hath been endowed. It is for this very purpose that in every age and dispensation the Prophets of God and His chosen Ones have appeared amongst men, and have evinced such power as is born of God and such might as only the Eternal can reveal.

Can one of sane mind ever seriously imagine that, in view of certain words the meaning of which he cannot comprehend, the portal of God’s infinite guidance can ever be closed in the face of men? Can he ever conceive for these Divine Luminaries, these resplendent Lights either a beginning or an end? What outpouring flood can compare with the stream of His all-embracing grace, and what blessing can excel the evidences of so great and pervasive a mercy? There can be no doubt whatever that if for one moment the tide of His mercy and grace were to be withheld from the world, it would completely perish. For this reason, from the beginning that hath no beginning the portals of Divine mercy have been flung open to the face of all created things, and the clouds of Truth will continue to the end that hath no end to rain on the soil of human capacity, reality and personality their favors and bounties. Such hath been God’s method continued from everlasting to everlasting."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 64-69

 

[sayak83]

He was not on stage while walking past silently without looking at anyone (but he did speak to a few out of the several thousand, but we could not hear what he said).

But you sound very knowledgeable about the psychology of masses and of very high spiritual attainment. Have you considered becoming one of these charismatic leaders who can sway masses at a distance in silence? I think you would be much more successful than these fake actors!

Did I say they are fake? I said that this charismatic appeal is unrelated to extent of spiritual attainment. Though of course many fake people also have this and use it to exploit people.
I have no such inclination. Thanks.

 

[danieldemol]

Who said it failed?

I understood you to be saying that consequentialism fails because one can't know the consequences in 500 years or a millennium, but if that's not what you are saying then no problem, I retract my statement.

 

[soulsurvivor]

Did I say they are fake? I said that this charismatic appeal is unrelated to extent of spiritual attainment. Though of course many fake people also have this and use it to exploit people.
I have no such inclination. Thanks.

I did not suggest there are no charismatic leaders without 'spiritual attainment' like yours who can appeal to people. But I don't know of any who can appeal to people just by walking among them without speaking/singing to them or without even facing them. You seem to know a lot of such people. Perhaps you can name a couple?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So how do you pick the "word of God" out of the "other"? What's your criteria?

By seeing in what has been recorded that which binds us all under the One God, in the fruits of Christ.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But, for Baha'is, it's not literally true... just symbolically true. Plus, Baha'is can't be sure about the authenticity of a verse unless one of the Baha'i prophets quoted that verse.

For a Baha'i this is the only stance they should offer about how the Bible is seen.

"THIS book is the Holy Book of God, of celestial Inspiration. It is the Bible of Salvation, the Noble Gospel. It is the mystery of the Kingdom and its light. It is the Divine Bounty, the sign of the guidance of God." 'Abdu'l-Bahá 'Abbás.

That statement is about the way we should read the Bible, not about the historical accuracy of the stories it contains.

For Scholars that will guide their study of what truth lays behind those stories. Were they a material fact, or is there many spiritual meanings really meant as a metephor.

I see It is a great disservice to Christians and the Bible to join in the dispute about its accuracy as a historical record, as that is a pointless never ending debate.

Let's look for the Love and Oneness it does contain, as does the Quran.

Regards Tony

 

[Sargonski]

@Sargonski

Christ raised lazarus from the dead after several days

You cannot say that Paul, and the author of Mark, and Clement did not know about the resurrected (glorified) Jesus Christ walking around simply because they do not mention it. Probably the fact was so well known there was no need to mention it.

Later gospel authors realized the need to make it clear for later generations what had actually occurred.

It's just as plausible. There's no way of knowing from the writings.

So perhaps we should just agree to differ?

Holy moly -- this is becoming painful . Lazaris not in the Gospel of Mark .. there are no Zombie Jesus stories in the Gospel of Mark .. there are Zombie Jesus stories in Matt .. Luke .. and John the gospel where the lazaris story comes from .

What is not plausible .. no way of nowing what from what writings .. you are simply all over the map .. can't seem to understand that a Jewish Christian in 40 AD did not have the Gospel of John ... What part of this message are you not understanding .... "The perspective of a Jewish Christian in 40 AD .... having only stories that will one day become the Gospel of Mark to go on .... ... these people have never heard of anything about the corpse of Jesus wandering around the earth after death .. and there is no Latere ascention .. another "what on eath are you talking about" moment .. Paul knows naught of this later ascention .. nor the author of Mark .. Nor Clement.

Agree to differ about what ? Your inability to comprehend that a Jewish Christian in 40 AD has never heard of the Gospel of John .. written ~ 110 AD ?

 

[CG Didymus]

For a Baha'i this is the only stance they should offer about how the Bible is seen.

"THIS book is the Holy Book of God, of celestial Inspiration. It is the Bible of Salvation, the Noble Gospel. It is the mystery of the Kingdom and its light. It is the Divine Bounty, the sign of the guidance of God." 'Abdu'l-Bahá 'Abbás.

For you check out this...

A Bahá'í View of the Bible​

Let's look for the Love and Oneness it does contain, as does the Quran.

Yes, there's talk about love in the Bible, but even if there is "oneness", there's also a lot of us vs. them in it.

And for that other Baha'i, check it out...

The Báb described Adam as the First Manifestation of God, and described Him as establishing a religion stating that if His religion had not existed the Bábí Faith would not have existed.​

 

[TransmutingSoul]

For you check out this...

A Bahá'í View of the Bible​

Yes, there's talk about love in the Bible, but even if there is "oneness", there's also a lot of us vs. them in it.

And for that other Baha'i, check it out...

The Báb described Adam as the First Manifestation of God, and described Him as establishing a religion stating that if His religion had not existed the Bábí Faith would not have existed.​

I like the Love taught by Jeaus and have come to understand the "us verses them" as fair warning of what the neglect of love and oneness will produce.

Regards Tony

 

[Sargonski]

I know it's in John. The point is it's a miraculous restoration of life. It's a miracle. Christ's resurrection is a miracle. It doesn't imply a zombie Jesus, is the point.

You keep talking about the corpse of Jesus. I believe that is a deliberate misunderstanding of the resurrectuon. I explained in my post #114

But you know that already.

Jesus was raised after three days. Not died and gone to heaven. He foretold it in Mark. You ignore this point also. Nobody says anyone had to believe it. But that's what the gospel says.

This isn't going anywhere. So ... cheers

No kidding its not going anywhere .. you are unable to understand that a Jewish Christian in 40 BC did not have the Gospel of John .. Is this disingenuous oblivion or are you seriously blocked ? .. my guess by a "thought stopping device"

2) "Corpse" - I addressed the fact - according to the gospel of Mark - that Jesus died .. his last breath calling out that his God has forsaken him. The dead corpse of Jesus was put into a tomb .. 3 days later it was discovered that the corpse of Jesus was gone. .. upon which your deliberate misunderstanding sets in - Pretending you do not understanding what a dead corpse is and 2) pretending that a dead corpse disappearing necessarily means that this dead corpse came back to life and has gotten up and walked out of the cave.

What point is ignored in Mark ??? Quote from Mark what point is being ignored .. I told you 10 times that there is a resurrection in Mark .. why are you pretending I ignored this ? Mark talks about a a spiritual resurrection = you go to heaven .. the message of Jesus is that heaven exists .. Page #1 as told you before - and that is where we hope following Jesus will lead. Your claim that the resurrection means you will be wandering around earth as a Zombie after death .. Like Jesus .. because that is what the resurrection means in Mark is simply false .. nowhere in mark is this idea put forward.

 

[Sumadji]

No kidding its not going anywhere .. you are unable to understand that a Jewish Christian in 40 BC did not have the Gospel of John .. Is this disingenuous oblivion or are you seriously blocked ? .. my guess by a "thought stopping device"

2) "Corpse" - I addressed the fact - according to the gospel of Mark - that Jesus died .. his last breath calling out that his God has forsaken him. The dead corpse of Jesus was put into a tomb .. 3 days later it was discovered that the corpse of Jesus was gone. .. upon which your deliberate misunderstanding sets in - Pretending you do not understanding what a dead corpse is and 2) pretending that a dead corpse disappearing necessarily means that this dead corpse came back to life and has gotten up and walked out of the cave.

What point is ignored in Mark ??? Quote from Mark what point is being ignored .. I told you 10 times that there is a resurrection in Mark .. why are you pretending I ignored this ? Mark talks about a a spiritual resurrection = you go to heaven .. the message of Jesus is that heaven exists .. Page #1 as told you before - and that is where we hope following Jesus will lead. Your claim that the resurrection means you will be wandering around earth as a Zombie after death .. Like Jesus .. because that is what the resurrection means in Mark is simply false .. nowhere in mark is this idea put forward.

In Mark Jesus foretells his resurrection after three days. That's the point. He doesn't say he'll die and then only go to heaven three days later. He doesn't say he'll die and go to heaven and his body will be stolen and only on the third day found to be gone, with some grave robber sitting in the empty tomb swinging his leg, trying to con Mary Magdalene.

I'm repeating this for others who may be swayed by you, and not for you.

I've explained that the resurrection of Christ does not mean a zombie corpse. However you ignore everything I say and go on as if I never said it.

Of course I know a Jewish Christian in 40AD did not have the Gospel of John. That wasn't the point. The point was that the resurrection was a miracle. No zombie rotting corpse walking around.

Others will judge, who follow the thread. I do not wish to carry on trying to have a conversation with a poster I have come to regard as disingenuous and insulting when cornered.

As far as I'm concerned you're just trolling now. So once again ... cheers @Sargonski

 

[Tomef]

When Jesus walked upon the earth He was surrounded by disciples who were fishermen mostly and couldn’t read or write. So how did they know He was the Lord?

Same with most religions. The followers weren’t really educated but they seemed to be able to recognise the truth.

How is this so and why were the priests and educated class unable to recognise the Prophet?

What criteria, not using any scripture would determine whether a prophet is true or not?

This is a thread mainly for religionists to share, explain and explore how the first disciples of their religion came to know the truth without having knowledge of scriptures or even no basic human learning. It is said the disciples of Jesus couldn’t count to 10.

It’s a way of getting people to think they understand something when they don’t.

 

[Sargonski]

In Mark Jesus foretells his resurrection after three days. That's the point. He doesn't say he'll die and then only go to heaven three days later. He doesn't say he'll die and go to heaven and his body will be stolen and only on the third day found to be gone, with some grave robber sitting in the empty tomb swinging his leg, trying to con Mary Magdalene.

I'm repeating this for others who may be swayed by you, and not for you.

I've explained that the resurrection of Christ does not mean a zombie corpse. However you ignore everything I say and go on as if I never said it.

Of course I know a Jewish Christian in 40AD did not have the Gospel of John. That wasn't the point. The point was that the resurrection was a miracle. No zombie rotting corpse walking around.

Others will judge, who follow the thread. I do not wish to carry on trying to have a conversation with a poster I have come to regard as disingenuous and insulting when cornered.

As far as I'm concerned you're just trolling now. So once again ... cheers @Sargonski

Indeed Jesus talks about his resurrection no one said Jesus said any of the nonsense you are attributing to him. Jesus talks about Heaven .. what part of "heaven" is where you go upon resurrection .. or where you want to go .. are you unable to comprehend ? and why are you making up these fantasies about Jesus saying his dead corpse will be stolen .. and trying to attribute this nonsense to me ?

then you cry out that you are repeating this false accusation to the world so others will see it ?! Really ? funny

I did not say the resurrection was a Zombie Corpse .. I there are NO - Zombie Jesus stories in Mark .. once again you misrepresent my position ..
You brought forth the the 3 day rotting corpse of Lazarus in John .. to support your claim that this was the form of resurrection "a rotting corpse coming back to life and wandering around talking to people" in Mark. which is of course a ridiculous achronistic fallacy .. no such thing exists in Mark . We have to wait until what looks like another 40-50 years for the Zombie Corpse stories that you are mentioning to be told to the early Christians ..

and after making 2 false accusations 2 big strawman fallacies .. you finish with accusing me of trolling ?? in some desire to demonize the messenger .. introduce some Ad Hom Fallacy as a thought stopping device .. like the programming of thouse under sophisticated mind control.

Not saying you were subjected to such .. just mentioning exhibiting some of the behaviour of those under the influence .. which we can also see in secular mind control but .. this is in context of religious cult practice of unscrupulous cult leaders ..

Let us state once more .. I do not believe in the Zombie Corpse stories in Matt Luke and John so quit pretending I do.. and 2) these stories do not appear until ~ 110 AD ...

 

[Sumadji]

Indeed Jesus talks about his resurrection no one said Jesus said any of the nonsense you are attributing to him. Jesus talks about Heaven .. what part of "heaven" is where you go upon resurrection .. or where you want to go .. are you unable to comprehend ? and why are you making up these fantasies about Jesus saying his dead corpse will be stolen .. and trying to attribute this nonsense to me ?

then you cry out that you are repeating this false accusation to the world so others will see it ?! Really ? funny

Oh? Really?

In Mark Jesus foretells his resurrection after three days. That's the point. He doesn't say he'll die and then only go to heaven three days later. He doesn't say he'll die and go to heaven and his body will be stolen and only on the third day found to be gone, with some grave robber sitting in the empty tomb swinging his leg, trying to con Mary Magdalene.

Presumably this story was related to the author of Mark at a later date . There is no "Risen" to anywhere .. the body is gone ... and some grave robber left in the tomb .. his job likely to reseal it but the women surprise him ... and like the Grinch .. and knowing Jesus .. tells the women he has been resurrected to heaven .. Whom -ever this dude was .. the women don't believe a word .. the Run away terrified and say nothing to anyone ..

Now ... from this you want us to assume that the dead corpse .. just like the Zombie movies ... wakes up and starts wandering towards Galilee.

Do I need to repeat (again) the passages in Mark where Christ foretells his resurrection? Ok, I will:

And he began to teach them that the Son of Man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again. He spoke this word openly. Then Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. But when he had turned around and looked at his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, “Get behind me, Satan! For you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”
Mark 8:31-33

Then they departed from there and passed through Galilee, and he did not want anyone to know it. For he taught his disciples and said to them, “The Son of Man is being betrayed into the hands of men, and they will kill him. And after he is killed, He will rise the third day.” But they did not understand this saying, and were afraid to ask him.
Mark 9:30-32

“Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn him to death and deliver him to the Gentiles; and they will mock him, and scourge him, and spit on him, and kill him. And the third day he will rise again.”
Mark 10:33-34

He also predicts that after he has been raised he will go before them to Galilee
Mark 14:28

I suppose that means I also have to repeat the conclusion to the Gospel of Mark:

But when they looked up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away -- for it was very large. And entering the tomb, they saw a young man clothed in a long white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.

But he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He is risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going before you into Galilee; there you will see him, as he said to you.”

So they went out quickly and fled from the tomb, for they trembled and were amazed. And they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.
Mark 16:4-8

I did not say the resurrection was a Zombie Corpse .. I there are NO - Zombie Jesus stories in Mark .. once again you misrepresent my position ..

Get away with your zombie corpse. There is no zombie corpse anywhere. There is the risen Christ, master of the flesh and master of nature, able to 'weave' and manifest a physical form. He appeared to many after his resurrection, in the words of Paul, the first Christian writer around 52AD, before Gospel of Mark, according to commonly accepted dating:

For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. After that he was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. After that he was seen by James, then by all the apostles. Then last of all he was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.
1 Corinthians 15:3-8

You have a right to differ about the intended meaning of Paul and the writer of Mark, and even of Jesus in the passages above. People have had opinions about Jesus and the New Testament writings for centuries.

So whatever your response, I'm going to leave it there now? Others will decide for themselves. I'm not going to go on repeating what I've already said in previous posts on this thread

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

When Jesus walked upon the earth He was surrounded by disciples who were fishermen mostly and couldn’t read or write. So how did they know He was the Lord?

Same with most religions. The followers weren’t really educated but they seemed to be able to recognise the truth.

How is this so and why were the priests and educated class unable to recognise the Prophet?

What criteria, not using any scripture would determine whether a prophet is true or not?

This is a thread mainly for religionists to share, explain and explore how the first disciples of their religion came to know the truth without having knowledge of scriptures or even no basic human learning. It is said the disciples of Jesus couldn’t count to 10.

I think that you have used a good term in your question: “criteria”.

The divinity of Christ is not measured by what traits they possess, nor by what results they achieve but solely by what they provide [to others]: compassion for their predicaments, the means to change their ways and divine forgiveness for whatever has been thus far.

They who could not recognise Christ, had the wrong criteria in mind and missed the ones that matter: selflessness (=freedom from self/ego) and attentiveness to -and humility for- all that is encountered.


Humbly,
Hermit

 

[Arnaud1221]

When the prophet or you can use the name you wish, is globally, I mean on Earth, recognize...

 

[Sargonski]

Oh? Really?



Do I need to repeat (again) the passages in Mark where Christ foretells his resurrection? Ok, I will:


I suppose that means I also have to repeat the conclusion to the Gospel of Mark:

But when they looked up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away -- for it was very large. And entering the tomb, they saw a young man clothed in a long white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.

But he said to them, “Do not be alarmed. You seek Jesus of Nazareth, who was crucified. He is risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. But go, tell his disciples and Peter that he is going before you into Galilee; there you will see him, as he said to you.”

So they went out quickly and fled from the tomb, for they trembled and were amazed. And they said nothing to anyone, for they were afraid.
Mark 16:4-8


Get away with your zombie corpse. There is no zombie corpse anywhere. There is the risen Christ, master of the flesh and master of nature, able to 'weave' and manifest a physical form. He appeared to many after his resurrection, in the words of Paul, the first Christian writer around 52AD, before Gospel of Mark, according to commonly accepted dating:

For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, and that he was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. After that he was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. After that he was seen by James, then by all the apostles. Then last of all he was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time.
1 Corinthians 15:3-8

You have a right to differ about the intended meaning of Paul and the writer of Mark, and even of Jesus in the passages above. People have had opinions about Jesus and the New Testament writings for centuries.

So whatever your response, I'm going to leave it there now? Others will decide for themselves. I'm not going to go on repeating what I've already said in previous posts on this thread

Another strawman fallacy -- I not say there was no resurrection .. you were told that the resurrection was spiritual rather than physical ... not that Jesus never spoke about the resurrection .. you were told that Jesus talks about the the resurrection being to heaven .. not to a Zombie corpse as you continuously protest ... Paul likening the resurrection appearances of Jesus to his Vision .. clearly Jesus is in Heaven .. and clearly your chosen translation is pious fraud.

 

[Eddi]

So how did they know He was the Lord?

Miracles!

Healing

Walking on water

Rising from the dead

Water into wine!

God had to be on board for those type of thing to happen

These were signs that Jesus was a prophet

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Miracles!

Healing

Walking on water

Rising from the dead

Water into wine!

God had to be on board for those type of thing to happen

These were signs that Jesus was a prophet

So an Illusion act is what we turn Jesus into.

What about the cross, picking that up and flowing him, is that not a better example?

What about His trustworthiness and Truthfulness of word and actions, what about the Message from God?

Regards Tony