How come Hagia Sophia means the same thing in both Greek and Turkic?

[ancalimon]

All around Middle Asia, Turks' ancient religion Tengrism is symbolized by the plus in a circle: ⊕ It is " ulu haç" (holy cross in English)

Haç ⊕ is the symbol of Tengri. Hacı (Hagia) is someone that is wise in the knowledge of Tengri thus he is ulu (holy in English)

Sofu means wise in Turkic. He is someone who abides by the rules and knows the knowledge of Tengri (The God) by heart.

Hagia Sophia:: "Haç Sofu" or "Hacı Sofu" means nearly the same thing as Hagia Sophia: "Holy Wisdom" or "Hacı Sofuyam, Hacı Sofuyum" which means "I am holy wisdom"
Turks living tens of thousands of kilometers far away from Greeks share the same words. How come? I know the answer and it's very long and complicated. I'm just curious how people who have interest in this topic can explain it.

 

[Smoke]

Turks living tens of thousands of kilometers far away from Greeks share the same words. How come?

Tens of thousands of kilometers? Greeks and Turks have been neighbors for a thousand years.

 

[Sunstone]

Turks living tens of thousands of kilometers far away from Greeks share the same words. How come?

If you want to believe that Turks and Greeks live tens of thousands of kilometers apart, then I have a bridge I want to sell you.

 

[ancalimon]

LOL
I am talking about Turks in Middle Asia

search for "list of turkic states and empires" in wikipedia

 

[Sunstone]

LOL
I am talking about Turks in Middle Asia

search for "list of turkic states and empires" in wikipedia

\

That makes more sense.

 

[Vile Atheist]

\

That makes more sense.

Even still, it's more like thousands of kilometres, not tens of thousands. The Earth's circumference is approximately 40,000 kilometres. Central Asia is hardly "tens of thousands of kilometres away from Greece".

And in the days of Alexander the Great, the Greeks conquered as far as Afghanistan and India. There are still ancient Greek relics in Afghanistan. This is why Greek and Middle Eastern languages (I almost misspelled at as "Middle Earth languages"...ROHAN!!!!!!) share those similarities. The Greeks conquered Turkic peoples. Turkic people conquered Greeks.

This is common. When the Moors were on the Iberian peninsula, they left some lasting imprints of their language in the Portuguese and Spanish languages. And the large influence of Sephardic Jews who lived there, too, contributed to especially the Portuguese language.

 

[ancalimon]

But you're missing the point

Sofu is a pure Turkic word. It is derived from the root word "SAF" which means pure, naive and clean. Why is the church named Hagia Sophia while the words are foreign words. This is puzzling.
It is someone who knows the knowledge of Tengri (like the technologies, culture, laws, etc) by heart and lives according to rules (töre)
How many kilometers is East Turkestan (Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region in China) from Greece?

 

[Sunstone]

They are all indo-european languages.

 

[ancalimon]

They are all indo-european languages.

Turkic languages originated in Middle Asia. They are not Indo European.

 

[Vile Atheist]

But you're missing the point

Sofu is a pure Turkic word. It is derived from the root word "SAF" which means pure, naive and clean. Why is the church named Hagia Sophia while the words are foreign words. This is puzzling.
It is someone who knows the knowledge of Tengri (like the technologies, culture, laws, etc) by heart and lives according to rules (töre)
How many kilometers is East Turkestan (Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region in China) from Greece?

Using my fingers and the scale on Google Maps, approximately 2500-3000km.

As for the languages themselves, I can't help you as I have zero knowledge of any Turkic language and Greek. The closest I come is Latin (which I am currently learning).

 

[Sunstone]

Turkic languages originated in Middle Asia. They are not Indo European.

Source?

EDIT: Nevermind, I just checked and Turkic languages are not listed as Indo-European.

 

[Breathe]

Hagia Sophia ; (Turkish: Ayasofya, from the Greek: Ἁγία Σοφία, "Holy Wisdom";
Hagia Sophia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The term for Hagia Sophia in Turkish is borrowed from Greek Hagia Sophia to make Ayasofya. The reason it's "aya" instead of "hagia" is because of the pronunciation of Hagia (Ἁγί&#945. I've never met a Greek person who pronounced the /h/ sound in Greek words, and the g isn't a 'true g' as we would use here, and probably because of palatalisation.

saf
1. pure, unadulterated.
2. ingenuous, guileless; credulous; gullible.
Turkish Dictionary for Language Learners and Travelers to Turkey

σοφία η = cleverness skill wisdom
sofia i
(Ancient Greek)

σοφία = wisdom
sofia
(Modern Greek)
ËÅÎÉʼ - LEXICON: Greek-English-Greek dictionary

As for the reason saf meaning "pure, clean, naïve" being similar to sophia, it's just a close similarity by coincidence. Lol, if anything though, if sophia means wisdom, and saf means naïve, they're more like opposite words.

 

[ancalimon]

The term for Hagia Sophia in Turkish is borrowed from Greek Hagia Sophia to make Ayasofya. The reason it's "aya" instead of "hagia" is because of the pronunciation of Hagia (Ἁγί&#945. I've never met a Greek person who pronounced the /h/ sound in Greek words, and the g isn't a 'true g' as we would use here, and probably because of palatalisation.

saf
1. pure, unadulterated.
2. ingenuous, guileless; credulous; gullible.

As for the reason saf meaning "pure, clean, naïve" being similar to sophia, it's just a close similarity by coincidence. Lol, if anything though, if sophia means wisdom, and saf means naïve, they're more like opposite words. [/quote]

And in Turkey it is thought in schools that Turks entered Anatolia in 1071 while evidence and proof goes back to 17000 BC. Of course Hagia Sophia would be spelled like Haya Sofya.

The "c" in Hacı is spelled like a "g" in Anatolian Turkish. But in most of Middle Asia Turkish dialects, it is spelled like the "y" when you say "year" but trying to spell "y" as a "g" but keeping your tounge as if you will pronounce it like a "y". (that was difficult to tell)

To get wise, one must first be naive and pure. If he bloats about his wisdom, can he still be wise? Saf means many things in Turkic languages. Sofu definetely means wise. He is also someone who knows God by heart. He is someone who knows all the knowledge

Haç also means "to be without any sins".

Besides different cultures pronounce the same words differently. It is normal if they don't pronounce "h"

Istanbul was named "Oy-Og" before Constantinople. On it, the Proto-Turkic country of "Oy-Urum Atın" was founded. It is written on the "Şine Usu Bitig" monument which is 2600 years old.

During 2000 BC, Turks came to area today known as Istanbul. In Erenköy district, they built a white palace and using Proto-Turkic thamgas, they wrote on the entry:
UW-ON : AT- ATA, UÇ ETİLİS ESİS
In todays Turkish: Kutsal (Ulu) On: At- Ata'nın lider ediliş anısına.
In English: Holy Ten: in memory of Horse (this horse may in fact be the ascendancy of the soul to reach God (Tengri) At means many things in Turkic and it's the first Thamga of the ancient writing system. It is the rightmost symbol on Etruscan Marsiliana tablet. you can see the picture if you search google pictures for marsiliana tablet) Father's (Apparently Ata can't be translated into English and Father is the closest I can get) being declared a leader.

This alphabet which consists of Turkic Thamgas was used all around Anatolia during this period.

In Istanbul Archeology Museum, in the section of Byzantium coins, on one side of the coin number one, "OY ÖGÜY" is written which means "the ability to think". On the other side, "ÖG,ÖG,ÖG,ÖG" is written which means "high degree of thought".
The "ÖG" thamga later entered the Greek alphabet as "Gamma" and when four "ÖG"s were revolving, it was called the Swastika.
It is also strange that the Turkic sign which meant "high degree of thought" was condemned and up to this day censored after it was used by the Nazis. And Gamma name is today given to a radiation.

 

[Breathe]

The "c" in Hacı is spelled like a "g" in Anatolian Turkish. But in most of Middle Asia Turkish dialects, it is spelled like the "y" when you say "year" but trying to spell "y" as a "g" but keeping your tounge as if you will pronounce it like a "y". (that was difficult to tell)

LOL, I know what you are trying to say. You mean a voiceless velar fricative (or in the case of hagia voiceless palatal fricative?)

To get wise, one must first be naive and pure. If he bloats about his wisdom, can he still be wise? Saf means many things in Turkic languages. Sofu definetely means wise. He is also someone who knows God by heart. He is someone who knows all the knowledge

Well, there are a lot of different Turkic languages; it depends what one you mean. Uzbek, Tatar, Turkish, Uyghur, Kyrgyz, or another? - Because as far as I'm aware, in Turkish sofu only means strict adherent; I suppose I could ask someone else for clarification on that.

You seem to know a lot about Turkic languages; are you from one of the Turkic nations yourself?

As to your assumption that to get wise, one must first be naïve and pure being somehow connected to wise, perhaps this is theologically correct, but they're still different words linguistically, more like opposites.

Haç also means "to be without any sins".

Again, in which languages?

Besides different cultures pronounce the same words differently. It is normal if they don't pronounce "h"

That's correct; I don't pronounce h in my normal speech. However, I use it if I speak to my daughter (trying to make sure she doesn't talk like a vile commoner like me ) or need to use it for any reason.

Istanbul was named "Oy-Og" before Constantinople. On it, the Proto-Turkic country of "Oy-Urum At&#305;n" was founded. It is written on the "&#350;ine Usu Bitig" monument which is 2600 years old. <<snip>>

Hmmm, I didn't know that. Can you give more information on this?

Holy Ten: ... <snip>> (Tengri) At means many things in Turkic and <<snip>> (Apparently Ata can't be translated into English and Father is the closest I can get) being declared a leader.

Tengriism, interesting! I know very little about this faith. Are you an adherent of it?
I know ata is Turkish for tather. That is why Atatürk is called the Father of the Turks by some people.

<<snip>> t was called the Swastika.
It is also strange that the Turkic sign which meant "high degree of thought" was condemned and up to this day censored after it was used by the Nazis. And Gamma name is today given to a radiation.

The swastika has been in use in a plethora of civilisations, from Japan to the Americas, Europe, India, Turkic lands and more, I believe.

How sad the Nazis destroyed this symbol's meaning in the West and turned it into a symbol of hate. But that's the way things go on, I guess. In the East, I know that it isn't that controversial, and you will still find it commonly as a sign for temples and stuff like that.

 

[idea]

Sofu means wise in Turkic.
Hagia Sophia:: "Haç Sofu" or "Hac&#305; Sofu" means nearly the same thing as Hagia Sophia: "Holy Wisdom" or "Hac&#305; Sofuyam, Hac&#305; Sofuyum" which means "I am holy wisdom"

Sophia is found in latin too -

Sofie - meaning of Sofie name
The girl's name Sofie \s(o)-fie\ is a variant of Sofia (Latin) and Sophia (Greek), and the meaning of Sofie is "wisdom".

another link...
Wisdom Has Built Her House&#58; Studies on the Figure of Sophia in the Bible by Linda M Maloney &#40;Translator&#41;, William McDonough &#40;Translator&#41;, Silvia Schroer &#40;Translator&#41; &#40;Used, New, Out&#45;of&#45;Print&#41; &#45; Alibris
Wisdom Has Built Her House: Studies on the Figure of Sophia in the Bible

by Linda M Maloney (Translator), William McDonough (Translator), Silvia Schroer (Translator)

About this title: Wisdom Has Built Her House brings together for the first time the collected studies of Silvia Schroer on the biblical figure of Sophia, divine Wisdom. Teachers, students, and those looking for a well-reasoned study of personified Wisdom--and reasons for reinvisioning our own images of God--will find this in Wisdom Has Built Her House.



Sophias are popping up everywhere!

 

[idea]

Hagia Sophia ; (Turkish: Ayasofya, from the Greek: &#7945;&#947;&#943;&#945; &#931;&#959;&#966;&#943;&#945;, "Holy Wisdom";
Hagia Sophia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The term for Hagia Sophia in Turkish is borrowed from Greek Hagia Sophia to make Ayasofya. The reason it's "aya" instead of "hagia" is because of the pronunciation of Hagia (&#7945;&#947;&#943;&#945. I've never met a Greek person who pronounced the /h/ sound in Greek words, and the g isn't a 'true g' as we would use here, and probably because of palatalisation.

saf
1. pure, unadulterated.
2. ingenuous, guileless; credulous; gullible.
Turkish Dictionary for Language Learners and Travelers to Turkey

&#963;&#959;&#966;&#943;&#945; &#951; = cleverness skill wisdom
sofia i
(Ancient Greek)

&#963;&#959;&#966;&#943;&#945; = wisdom
sofia
(Modern Greek)
ËÅÎÉʼ - LEXICON: Greek-English-Greek dictionary

As for the reason saf meaning "pure, clean, naïve" being similar to sophia, it's just a close similarity by coincidence. Lol, if anything though, if sophia means wisdom, and saf means naïve, they're more like opposite words.

I should have read the whole thread, someone posted the Greek sofia - The sophia of the Bible.

 

[ancalimon]

Sofu is known as wise, knowledgable, someone who lives according to rules of a religion, pure at heart, knows the secrets, etc. Check sufism as well, but don't take everything you read for granted because most of its history is corrupted in order to hide the truth.
Mevlana from South Turkestan is a sofu. Keser (H&#305;z&#305;r, Keyser, Kevser, Keder, etc; he was known with many different names in different cultures) is the tens of thousands of years old ancient Turkic prophet who thought Turks about God (Tengri). He can be considered a sofu.

I'm from Turkey.

The ProtoTurks wrote in a writing system unfamiliar to Western scholars and linguists. It consists of Thamgas, and Thamgas mean whole concepts depending on where they are written. They were used because signs are persistent in concepts. &#8853; is the haç. It means Tengri, it means to be without sin. You can see graves with this sign on them all around the world.
There are a few people who are working on deciphering previously undecipherable (due to people unable to connect those writings to any language) writings. But you'd hear nothing about them as they are usualy not talked about at all, or assasinated as if someone is trying to hide something.
For example a scientist in Turkey who found Turkic writings in a so called Kurdish city in Turkey was killed and it wasn't even in the news.

Tengriism is the ancient Turkic knowledge, which passed from generation through generation in forms of legends usualy by works of bards. It is the first monotheistic religion of humans if you could call it a religion.
It is in fact not a religion, but a collection of knowledge of Turks like technologies they invented (writing, working iron, animal domestication, horse riding using iron stirrups, wheeled houses, their graves "kurgan", medicine through shamans, etc) their culture, their legends, etc.
There is no religious instutition, or there are no priests but people who devote themselves to Tengri.
Tengrism is the root of all religions as all religions are continuation of Tengrism.
For example, Saka Turks (Scythians) were the first Turks that went to Hindustan (India). Sidharta Sakyamuni (Budha) is a member of the&#65279; Saka ruler family "Sakyamuni"
They left many Kurgans and Tamgas.
After Sakas' many other Turks had relationships with Hindustan

If you look at wikipedia, you'll see many Turkic naitons are decribed as different cultures but not Turks. I don't know why people or historians do this. For example historians claim that Scythians are Persian. But they also tell about their Kurgans, Tamgas, etc which are parts of Turkic culture (for example the worlds largest pyramid is in East Turkestan (see wikipedia)(invaded by China in 1949) and it's a Turkic Kurgan. This is why the worlds largest pyramid is being kept a secret. It is known that Turks are the first in history that believe in afterlife, and they mummify their dead, bury them with their horses,etc.

Ata is not exacly father. It is father in a more holy, sacred way. It is part of Tengrism culture. Let me try to explain. Being a Turk is not about ethnicity or race or religion. It is about wanting to be a Turks. This is why Anatolians clearly define themselves as Turks. Do we look like Turks in Middle Asia? No. We are Anatolians. Our ancestors lived in Anatolia, but our "Ata"s are Turks. They are the ones who brought us culture, who made us connected and powerful.

I will create a topic about Tengrism and write all I know there. Swastika is a Turkic tamga. If a culture uses Swastica, that this means they were culturaly influenced by Turkic culture (Tengrism) through Kipchaks