How convincing is the Qur'an anyway? In which respects?

[Remté]

The scientific miracle claims in the Quran. You can see examples of those claims all over the forum.

Scientific miracle claims? I thought we were talking about accuracy of the science in the Quran. It does sound odd if you choose to call them scientific miracles. What is a scientific miracle even? And the Quran doesn't make any such claims.

 

[Shad]

If you say so. there are scholars in America who are scientist who have explained it as well, but considering you are the supposed expert I thought you knew that. A one called Seyyed Hossein Nasr is one who explained the scientific aspect of the Qur'an he is an esteemed George Washington University professor.

So a nonscientist accepts something that bolsters his religion. I am impressed

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Most of the posters in this thread are not Christian.



The Ottomans were not some peaceful nation minding it's own business for centuries. ME's decline was not due to external forces of Europe alone but a history which spans centuries.

Most of the posters who post on Islam are ignorant of Islam and very much ignorant of Arabic as well.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

So a nonscientist accepts something that bolsters his religion. I am impressed

I am a scientist I go by the scientific method, what made me so different?

 

[Shad]

Scientific miracle claims? I thought we were talking about accuracy of the science in the Quran. It does sound odd if you choose to call them scientific miracles. What is a scientific miracle even? And the Quran doesn't make any such claims.

No the question you asked was directed at a post about scientific miracle claims regarding context in the Quran. This was a modern invention made by a government. Scientific accuracy is part of the miracle claims yet none of these claims come close to any accuracy used within science.

I didn't choose to call them anything. Muslims have been calling it that for decades all over the world. There are multiple posts on this forum made by Muslims using the term themselves.

Sure the Quran does not use such a term as science didn't exist in the 7th century. However it does have verses which make statements about reality which can be evaluated.

 

[Shad]

Most of the posters who post on Islam are ignorant of Islam and very much ignorant of Arabic as well.

The old Arabic canard. Amusing.

 

[Shad]

I am a scientist I go by the scientific method, what made me so different?

If you are accepting the claims regarding science in the Quran? Not a very good scientist then.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

The old Arabic canard. Amusing.

Do you speak, read and write Arabic?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

If you are accept the claims regarding science in the Quran? Not a very good scientist then.

Your opinion on the matter of my belief from my scientific background does not matter, your opinion in the above is as valuable as a patient who articulates babble due to dementia.

 

[Shad]

Your opinion on the matter of my belief from my scientific background does not matter, your opinion in the above is as valuable as a patient who articulates babble due to dementia.

This is just whining as you demonstrated you are gulible and follow nothing regarding science in this matter. Try again son.

 

[Shad]

Do you speak, read and write Arabic?

Irrelevant as there is something called translation. Heard of it?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Irrelevant as there is something called translation. Heard of it?

It's not irrelevant because translated words are subject to confirmation bias to those who are translating said language. If I'm writing a book on how I hate Islam and even though I'm proficient in the language of Arabic I can easily manipulate a words meaning into something that promotes my view. Writers do this all the time or do you think people translate other languages honestly?

 

[Shad]

It's not irrelevant because translated words are subject to confirmation bias to those who are translating said language.

Sure but you need to demonstrate this bias not merely assert it over a translation neither you or I have even cited.

If I'm writing a book on how I hate Islam and even though I'm proficient in the language of Arabic I can easily manipulate a words meaning into something that promotes my view. Writers do this all the time or do you think people translate other languages honestly?

Except the translations I use are from believing and practicing Muslims. You are assuming a point never established then using it in comparison as you assume intent not demonstrated.

You are making a lot of assertions but have yet to demonstrate anything. More so I can take your own argument and apply it to moderate translations and miracle claims, you cited scholar, etc, etc.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

There is a thread by @Debater Slayer elsewhere discussing the literary merits of the Qur'an.

However, there is a surprisingly predictable recurrence of claims about the excellence of the Qur'an in other respects.

It is surprising because, to the best of my knowledge, they consistently turn out to be questionable at best, despite the passion and insistence of so many.

Perhaps the best example of how bizarre those claims are is the anecdote of how the Qur'an predicts, apparently accurately by the perception of some, that Makkah is somehow "the center of Earth".

There is also the anecdote told in the Qur'an itself tells about how hard it presumably is to create a text of comparable merit. Needless to say, that is ultimately pure self-promotion with nothing substantial to show for it.

Challenge of the Quran - Wikipedia

Far as religious doctrine go, I must say that the Qur'an is if anything deplorable. Its doctrine is both derivative, self-limiting and seriously misguided, to the point that to this day it insists on the repudiation of LGBT and the defense of "proper" ways for husbands to physically hit their wives.

Then there is the sheer inability of the Qur'an to even acknowledge properly the nature and existence of either atheism or non-Abrahamic religion. Or the necessity of freedom of belief.

All in all, a pretty limited and dismaying text, raised by the sincere if misguided effort of so very many to a role that it can't ever possibly sustain.

Yet the claims that the Qur'an is of "remarkable accuracy" or admirable in other ways persist.

Do we have any true indication that such is or could conceivably be the case?

I honestly think, the only reason the divinity of Quran is not recognized, is because of misunderstandings in interpretations.

The first, and the most important thing to know about Quran is the method of interpretation.
And the only way, not to misinterpret is to know and understand verse 3:7 well, before even trying to interpret any other verse of the Quran.

 

[Jedster]

It doesn't.


@LuisDantas said:There is also the anecdote told in the Qur'an itself tells about how hard it presumably is to create a text of comparable merit. Needless to say, that is ultimately pure self-promotion with nothing substantial to show for it.

@Remté said
Except that no one has ever done it.

I think the Sikh person did in this video

 

[Ellen Brown]

A lot of Muslims can read it - though perhaps not fluently.

Think hard about what you just said... This from a Muslim.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Most of the posters in this thread are not Christian.



The Ottomans were not some peaceful nation minding it's own business for centuries. ME's decline was not due to external forces of Europe alone but a history which spans centuries.

Neither were those in the Crusades.

 

[Remté]

Think hard about what you just said... This from a Muslim.

I don't understand.

 

[Remté]

Except the translations I use are from believing and practicing Muslims.

I wish that was relevant. I really do.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I don't understand.

I was wrong. I'm sorry.