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How did people of the old testament gain salvation?
- Thread starter sense12
- Start date
All the righteous people who lived before Christ went to a sort of waiting place to await the coming of the Savior, as Heaven was not open to humans until Christ opened Heaven for us. This place in the afterlife is mentioned in the Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus in Luke 16.
Bosom of Abraham - Wikipedia
Harrowing of Hell - Wikipedia
Bosom of Abraham - Wikipedia
Harrowing of Hell - Wikipedia
From the Jewish POV there's no concept of salvation as one finds in Christianity so the question is somewhat loaded. I think a best approximate answer to your question in that case would be from Ecclesiastes:
Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.
Fear God and keep His commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.
74x12
Well-Known Member
They just needed to obey the Law and if they did then Jesus (who is the resurrection and the life) would raise them from the dead one day. So no one can be saved without Jesus. He is the resurrection itself. There is no eternal life without Jesus. So Jesus is literally what obeying the Law was all about. If you asked a Jew (other than Sadduccees who don't believe in the resurrection) in those days why they obeyed the Law. Then no doubt one of the primary reasons was so that they could be resurrected from the dead. This is another reason why many Jews in those days chose to be buried in or around Jerusalem because they believed God would come their first to raise the dead. Which is partially correct by the way. But it doesn't really matter where you're buried.
Also note that in the old Testament there is no sacrifice for sins other than unintentional sins. But if you sin willfully in the old Testament you're just forgiven (if you repent) without any explanation as to how God forgives other than God's love or mercy or something like that. Of course Jesus Christ is the sacrifice for their sins as well as the sins of people in the new Testament and completes the puzzle. He answers the question of how God forgives.
For example; why would God demand the blood of animals for unintentional sins but let you get off scot free for intentional ones? Like King David is forgiven of murder and adultery. It's because they were all forgiven in advance; because Jesus would be the appropriaton for their sins.
They are saved through their Covenant with God. They do not acknowledge salvation through Christ.
I am unfamiliar with any such argument and will not attempt to construct it. Do you know which scriptures were abused in its production? If you know which ones then we can try to put them into a reasonable perspective.
In the Messiah... they didn't know the name at that point but believed in the resurrection even as Abraham saw the day of Jesus (though not the name).
It is believed that Jesus went to preach to them when he died but before the resurrection
Justin Martyr, an early (Christian) church father, believed this:
" Earlier, Justin Martyr had indicated that the righteous Jews who lived before Christ would be saved. He later expressed a similar opinion concerning Gentiles. Those who act pleasing to God, while not "being" Christian are yet in some sense "in" Christ the Logos.[10]:10
...Each one, ... shall be saved by his own righteousness, ... those who regulated their lives by the law of Moses would in like manner be saved. ...Since those who did that which is universally, naturally, and eternally good are pleasing to God, they shall be saved through this Christ in the resurrection equally with those righteous men who were before them, namely Noah, and Enoch, and Jacob, and whoever else there be, along with those who have known this Christ."[11]"
Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus - Wikipedia
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
The truth is that the Jews do not have a concept of salvation from sins. It is simply not in the Tanakh (OT). It is a mistake to take an idea from thousand years later in time, and try to force it back in time.
Five Solas
Active Member
There had always only been only one route to salvation and that is by faith – Sola Fide. See Romans 4 where Paul explains the scriptural truth clearly that the way a person is saved is by being declared righteous by God based on the faith that person was given. That had been purchased through the work of Christ alone – not by human works.
The apostle bases his argument on the Old Testament stating, “What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about; but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? ‘And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to Him as righteousness.’”
Paul is reminding us that this teaching that he is bringing about the gospel of salvation had been promised long before in the Old Testament.
Gezellig
Member
Daniel 9:25, 26 speaks of the Messiah or Christ. The time of the coming of Christ is indicated.
Therefore, the Gospel says that at the time of John the Baptist, "the people were waiting" for the appearance of the Messiah.
"Salvation" lays in the recognition of Gods Given Messenger.
Christ means "Annointed One".
God's Covenant is that we would never be left without guidance. Our part in that Covenant is to obey the guidance that always comes via Messengers.
To reject any One of God's Messengers, is to reject them all.
Regards Tony
RabbiO
הרב יונה בן זכריה
I do this about once a year. I checked my calendar and you were about due. I’ll check in with you on this in May 2023.
I do this about once a year. I checked my calendar and you were about due. I’ll check in with you on this in May 2023.
Have another great year, stay happy, stay safe and I await next year so you can do it again.
Regards Tony
Five Solas
Active Member
The ultimate purpose of the Old Covenant was to point to Christ: “The law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.” (Galatians 3:24–25). One truth that must not be missed is that we are no longer under the Old Covenant. - “In Christ Jesus, you are all children of God through faith” (verse 26).
During the Last Supper, Jesus passed the cup to the disciples saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you” (Luke 22:20). When Jesus was crucified, His blood provided for the forgiveness of the sins of all who believe—before He came and after He came. That is the basis of the New Covenant. Salvation is a free gift for any who will believe in Christ and trust that His blood takes away their guilt before God (John 3:16–17).
Five Solas
Active Member
The Biblical concept of salvation from sin has no equivalent in modern Judaism. Judaism does not believe that man, by his nature, is evil or sinful and therefore does not teach that man has a need to be “saved” from eternal damnation. In fact, most Jews today do not believe in a place of eternal punishment or a literal hell. When a modern Jewish person sins, the belief is that he can obtain forgiveness through prayer, repentance, and doing good deeds.
The Old Testament reveals a need for atonement because of sin and very clearly gives the prescription for forgiveness: “The life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul” (Leviticus 17:11).
Animals were offered for the forgiveness of sins (e.g., Exodus 29:36; Leviticus 4:31; 9:7; 14:19; 15:15; Numbers 15:25). The Jewish practice of animal sacrifice ended in AD 70 when the Romans destroyed the temple in Jerusalem. With the temple gone, there is no longer a place for the sacrifices to be offered and today the Jews have no lawful way of atoning for their sin. Passover is still observed but without the sacrifice. Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement) is still on the calendar, but there is never an offering made for sin. The stipulations of the Mosaic Law remain unchanged, but the Jewish people cannot make things right with God—they cannot find forgiveness—without an animal sacrifice. That is why when a modern Jewish person sins, the belief is that he/she can obtain forgiveness through prayer, repentance, and doing good deeds.
The "saved" discussion is built around Joel 2:31- 3:2, whereas it points to those who are in Jerusalem and on Mount Zion will "survive" the "day of LORD". That "day of the LORD" would follow the restoration of Judah and Jerusalem (Joel 3:1), which happened in 1948 and would entail the judgment of the nations/Gentiles, whereas the nations would be sold into slavery as a judgment for Israel being sold into slavery by the nations (Joel 3:8). Yeshua would be included as the son of man, as told in Daniel 7:13, which is spelled out in Matthew 24:30. I expect you might actually witness the time of the "day of the LORD". If that time was not "cut short", no one would live through it (Mt 24:22).
For Christians true, but Jews remain in their covenant which is irrevocable, eternal, absolute. Otherwise, God is a liar.
Five Solas
Active Member
I should perhaps express myself more clearer. The Bible mentions several covenants and it can become somewhat confusing. Many only think of the Abrahamic covenant when the Old Testament covenant is mentioned. There is more
To explain where I come from (my view):
The two most important covenants that God has made with humanity is the Covenant of Works which God made with Adam and Eve. The covenant with Adam had the covenant sign of the tree.: "And the LORD God commanded the man, ‘You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die,’" (Gen. 2:16-17). All humanity descended from Adam and Eve and are born under and judged according to this covenant. The penalty for disobedience is death. The first covenant was based on the principle of law: obey and be blessed or disobey and be cursed.
The second is the New Covenant (Covenant of Grace), which God established through the atoning death of Jesus Christ. Those who put their faith in Christ enter this covenant. Christ established the New Covenant through His death (Luke 22:20; 1 Corinthians 11:25). This fulfilled and ended the Old Covenant. Under the New Covenant, we receive grace/salvation and the gift of the Holy Spirit, who progressively guides us so that we grow in righteousness. The first covenant only brought judgment from God. But the New Covenant guarantees eternal life
All other covenants found in the Bible are related but essentially subordinate to these two.
This is where confusion may arise:
The covenant made at Sinai (Mosaic Covenant) is the covenant of the Old Testament – the principle of law. The Law of Moses as the Old Covenant in the New Testament (in contrast with the New Covenant). It served to point in many ways to what God would do in the future.
Then there is the Covenant of Circumcision/Abrahamic covenant which is indeed everlasting. As an outward sign of God's covenant, believing parents, who were already inside the covenant, brought their baby boys for circumcision eight days after birth. That was a sign of their first entry amongst the Covenant people of God.
However, God later indicated that the outward sign of circumcision would later change when He declared through the prophet Ezekiel:
“I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean. I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols. I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. You will be my people, and I will be your God.” (Ez. 36:25-28). That points to the New Covenant.