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How did that happen from cats fighting Egyptians to Egyptians loving cats?

River Sea

Well-Known Member
How did that happen from cats fighting Egyptians to Egyptians loving cats?

@Tamino what are your thoughts about this?

How come the Egyptians love cats when it was cats who fought them?

Earlier the cats fought the Egyptians, as it was the Cambyses who used cats to fight the Egyptians, and the Egyptians lost the battle due to the cats.

The Battle of Pelusium of 525 BCE. This engagement was the decisive clash between the Pharaoh Psametik III (526-525 BCE) and the Persian king Cambyses II (525-522 BCE), resulting in the first Persian conquest of Egypt.

Yet later the Egyptians loves cats. However the Egyptians lost this battle because of cats.
How did that happen from cats fighting Egyptians to Egyptians loving cats?

 

Viker

Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
The Egyptians didn't fight the cats. The Persians used the Egyptian adoration of cats against the Egyptians. Basically, the Egyptians had to attempt not killing cats. This was a serious weak point that the Persians exploited to win the battle. It's almost comical now. Instead of "human shields" it was cat shields.

The Egyptians adored cats long before the Persian conquest of Egypt. Bastet, a cat goddess, was a major Egyptian goddess even before the pyramids were new.
 

Tamino

Active Member
Earlier the cats fought the Egyptians, as it was the Cambyses who used cats to fight the Egyptians, and the Egyptians lost the battle due to the cats.
Two points.
One. Check the timeline. The alleged battle happened 525 BCE. The Ancient Egyptian culture with its appreciation of sacred animals dates roughly 3000 BCE to 300CE.
So in the greatest part of Egyptian history people may have loved cats without any weird battle story interfering

Two. I am pretty confident that it never happened, I think the portraial of Cambyses we get here is mostly Greek propaganda. There are no Egyptian contemporary sources with this story that I know of.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
Egyptians loved cats before Cambyses II, believed to be of Bastet, good luck to tje home. The punishment for harming a cat was death. Cambyses used this to his advantage throwing cats at the Egyptian lines.
 

Viker

Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
Egyptians loved cats before Cambyses II, believed to be of Bastet, good luck to tje home. The punishment for harming a cat was death. Cambyses used this to his advantage throwing cats at the Egyptian lines.
I went with the story. I don't believe it actually happened. It may have grew into a story to try to explain how the Egyptians lost on their home turf or just a way to mock Egyptian lore. I doubt it actually happened. It would be hilarious if it were true. I can imagine the mighty Egyptian army stopping in their tracks to pick up and pet kitties. And those evil Persians, see the documentary film '300', stabbed them all in the back.
 

VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
Egyptians loved cats before Cambyses II, believed to be of Bastet, good luck to tje home. The punishment for harming a cat was death. Cambyses used this to his advantage throwing cats at the Egyptian lines.
Thats stupid. Wouldnt throwing cats at the egyptians make them want to kill the opposition even harder?

If the punishment for harming a cat is death throwing a cat causes harm...well...
 

Tamino

Active Member
Thats stupid. Wouldnt throwing cats at the egyptians make them want to kill the opposition even harder?

If the punishment for harming a cat is death throwing a cat causes harm...well...
The actual story says that the Assyrians drove cats and other sacred animals in front of their army - like hostages and living shields. And that the Egyptians were unwilling to attack for fear of harming the animals in the chaos of battle.
But again... I don't even believe that this happened. The source is pretty weak from a historical point of view
 

Tamino

Active Member
I doubt it actually happened. It would be hilarious if it were true. I can imagine the mighty Egyptian army stopping in their tracks to pick up and pet kitties. And those evil Persians, see the documentary film '300', stabbed them all in the back.
Another story with a greater likelihood of being true:
The Egyptian war chariots were drawn by pairs of stallions. At the battle of Meggido, the enemy chased a single unharnessed mare across the battlefield and into the ranks of the Egyptians.... imagine what happens to a battalion of light chariots if a single mare shows up among 100 stallions...
The story has a happy ending for the Egyptians, but not for the mare: an Egyptian soldier recorded the story in his tomb, stating that he killed the mare before it could cause any great disruption.
 

VoidCat

Use any and all pronouns including neo and it/it's
The actual story says that the Assyrians drove cats and other sacred animals in front of their army - like hostages and living shields. And that the Egyptians were unwilling to attack for fear of harming the animals in the chaos of battle.
But again... I don't even believe that this happened. The source is pretty weak from a historical point of view
Ah. I dont think it did either.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
How come the Egyptians love cats when it was cats who fought them?

Earlier the cats fought the Egyptians, as it was the Cambyses who used cats to fight the Egyptians, and the Egyptians lost the battle due to the cats.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but it appears to me that you are a bit confused. The love of cats by Egyptians predates the above mentioned battle.

Nor did the cats fight the Egyptians. They were used by the Persians to DISTRACT the Egyptians. It wasn't a case of cats scratching out anyone's eyes . :) They painted cats on their shields and drove cats before them. Given great love of Egyptians for cats, even their deification, this was enough to make the Egyptian soldiers pause in confusion. That little pause seems to have been the reason for the Persian win.

Sign me off,
Crazy Cat Lady
 

River Sea

Well-Known Member
The Egyptians didn't fight the cats. The Persians used the Egyptian adoration of cats against the Egyptians. Basically, the Egyptians had to attempt not killing cats. This was a serious weak point that the Persians exploited to win the battle. It's almost comical now. Instead of "human shields" it was cat shields.

The Egyptians adored cats long before the Persian conquest of Egypt. Bastet, a cat goddess, was a major Egyptian goddess even before the pyramids were new.

@Viker

I miss understood article. Now I understand the Egyptians didn't fight cats.

Did the Persians lack adorations for cats as a result of using cats to exploit the Egyptians, or did the Persians believe they had their own form of adoration for cats but mixed it with exploit for their cause? What kind of adoration would it be if the Persians still thought of themselves as adoration for cats? Did the Persians ever have their version of the cat goddess?

Bastet the cat goddess that was with Egyptians.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Egyptians loved cats before Cambyses II, believed to be of Bastet, good luck to tje home. The punishment for harming a cat was death. Cambyses used this to his advantage throwing cats at the Egyptian lines.
I too have been taken victim to the kitty parasite and adore my 3 cat goddess and one cat god.

If I Was An Egyptian in a past life I would have likely have fallen on my sword before killing a cat. Assuming being such a poor fellow, I had the gumption to do so.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
@Viker

I miss understood article. Now I understand the Egyptians didn't fight cats.

Did the Persians lack adorations for cats as a result of using cats to exploit the Egyptians, or did the Persians believe they had their own form of adoration for cats but mixed it with exploit for their cause? What kind of adoration would it be if the Persians still thought of themselves as adoration for cats? Did the Persians ever have their version of the cat goddess?

Bastet the cat goddess that was with Egyptians.
When I googled this, I found the Persians did not esteem cats to the same level as Egyptians. In Persia, cats were valued for helping to control pests.
 

River Sea

Well-Known Member
Another story with a greater likelihood of being true:
The Egyptian war chariots were drawn by pairs of stallions. At the battle of Meggido, the enemy chased a single unharnessed mare across the battlefield and into the ranks of the Egyptians.... imagine what happens to a battalion of light chariots if a single mare shows up among 100 stallions...
The story has a happy ending for the Egyptians, but not for the mare: an Egyptian soldier recorded the story in his tomb, stating that he killed the mare before it could cause any great disruption.

@Tamino

The battle of Meggido the Egyptians won, during Thutmose III. Have you ever visited this tomb where an Egyptian soldier recorded this story in his tomb?

 

River Sea

Well-Known Member
Another story with a greater likelihood of being true:
The Egyptian war chariots were drawn by pairs of stallions. At the battle of Meggido, the enemy chased a single unharnessed mare across the battlefield and into the ranks of the Egyptians.... imagine what happens to a battalion of light chariots if a single mare shows up among 100 stallions...
The story has a happy ending for the Egyptians, but not for the mare: an Egyptian soldier recorded the story in his tomb, stating that he killed the mare before it could cause any great disruption.

@Tamino
I meant to put the article here. Following what you showed when the Egyptians won. I'll go delete this same article that I placed in the wrong one. I didn't realize I did that 'until now. I wanted to place it showing more what you were showing.


https://www.warhistoryonline.com/ancient-history/egyptian-warfare-largest-chariot.html


Egyptian Warfare and the Largest Chariot Battle in History

The battle of Megiddo was the first reliably recorded battle, and not long after the battle of Kadesh would claim the title of the largest chariot battle ever, despite chariot warfare persisting for nearly 1,000 more years. To understand the battle of Kadesh it is important to know how the Egyptian army and their chariots operated.

The New Kingdom of Egypt was a military power built on the success of the chariot. The chariot features in ancient warfare as an elite warrior transport, a mobile firing platform, a heavy charging vehicle, and a fast moving platform to cut down loose or fleeing troops. Based on the designs of the Egyptian chariots, that show light and unfortified platforms, they seem to be primarily used as firing platforms.

Chariots were pulled by two horses and usually carried a driver and one or maybe two soldiers. One or two composite bows would be fed by around 100 arrows. Charioteers would also have spears and/or javelins as well as a shield and ax or sword if melee was required. Helmets and other armor were still scarce at this point so the curved sword was a common weapon for riding down the enemy.

It would be unwise to assume that charioteers locked themselves into a single role in a battle, it is more likely that due to their quick response ability, the chariots could switch from firing arrows to throwing javelins as they closed with the enemy and utilizing melee weapons if their chariot failed or if their horse or driver perished. Battle is hardly clean cut and organized enough for archery chariots to remain simply archers through every battle.

The battle of Kadesh is one of the earliest recorded battles in which we have some record from both sides, though the records for both sides claim they won the battle. The Egyptians under Rameses and the Hittites under king Muwatalli held powerful empires that bordered in the Levant near the city of Kadesh (Qadesh). Around 1274 BCE the two brought their royal armies to fight and may well have agreed upon a battle at the plains near Kadesh as such practices were not uncommon.

Rameses had a large army of around 20,000 including 2,000 chariots (the number of chariots for either side has been heavily debated). Marching in a long line of four distinct divisions to the northwestern plains of Kadesh Rameses received word that Muwatalli’s army was still far away and so Rameses allowed his force to leisurely march forward as the vanguard Amun division set up camp.

Soon Rameses was brought two Hittite scouts who, under torture, revealed that the first two informants were Hittite agents misleading Rameses and that Muwatalli was camped north of Kadesh with a force “more numerous than the sands of the shore”. In reality, Muwatalli did have a large force with nearly twenty different allies committing troops. Muwatalli seemed to have a force of around 40,000 with 3,000 chariots, many being of the three-man variety.

Battle_of_Kadesh_I


Map by Gianandre – derivative work – CC BY-SA 3.0

Despite learning that the enemy was near, Rameses did not know precisely where and before he could get his marching column into the camp they were attacked by a large chariot force that had crossed the Orontes River and surprised the division. The sights and sounds of the charging chariots quickly scattered the Egyptians and with the remaining marching division still scattered a way to the south the victorious Hittite chariots began raiding the camp established by the Amun division. Though the camp was full of the fresh troops of the Amun division, they had trouble resisting the Hittite troops, suggesting that this force actually represented a significant force of Muwatalli’s chariots.

As portions of the camp fell, Pharaoh Rameses found himself “alone” likely with his core of personal guard. Rameses and his guard led several charges on the Hittites raiding the camp and rallied the routed Ra division and organized the Amun division to launch coordinated assaults and drove the Hittites back south-east towards their original river crossing.

Battle_of_Kadesh_II


Map by Gianandre – derivative work – CC BY-SA 3.0

In this position the slightly lighter Egyptian chariots seemed to have an advantage as they were able to outmaneuver the heavier Hittite chariots and cause many casualties. King Muwatalli realized the trouble his chariots were in and sent his remaining chariots across the northern ford in order to again flank a pursing column of Egyptians. This second assault met with tremendous success and threatened to push the Egyptians back to their camp once again while allowing the defeated Hittite chariots to cross the river and regroup.

Rameses’ army was saved by the arrival of an allied contingent of Ne’arin. While the origin of these troops is hazy, their name implies that they were the young elite warriors. They seem to have been a garrison force or an allied army from the north that was ordered to meet Rameses at Kadesh for the battle. Upon their arrival they moved southeast around the camp to attack the Hittite’s second assault force. Seeing this, Rameses again rallied his men and attacked northward, flanking and confining the Hittites.

Battle_of_Kadesh_III


Map by Gianandre – derivative work – CC BY-SA 3.0

Being almost surrounded, the Hittites were forced to abandon their chariots to swim across the river to safety. With a brutal battle just fought, Rameses did not have the resources to maintain a siege of Kadesh and Muwatalli, himself weakened by a great loss of his chariot core, could do little more than hold up inside the city walls.

The battle has been described as an Egyptian victory, a draw, and even as a Hittite victory. What Rameses was able to do was recover from a disastrous position to save his army. Furthermore, despite sections of his army being routed twice and his camp ransacked, Rameses and his army ultimately held the field of battle after all was said and done. To emphasize that this should be considered a slight Egyptian victory is the amount of booty gained in the capture of the Hittite chariots. Ancient battles heavily focused on the amount of plunder the individual and the state could gain. Chariots were status symbols at the time and therefore many of them were ornately decorated and even plated in precious metals. Capturing as many as 1,000 chariots would have been quite the joyous occasion for the Egyptians regardless of whether or not they took Kadesh.

The Egyptians certainly proclaimed the battle as a great victory and Rameses himself would constantly refer back to it as one of his greatest achievements despite orchestrating several other successful campaigns. The attention Rameses gives to this battle above others may suggest that the stories of his personal charges into the fray to rally the troops were more truth than propaganda. The battle surely would have been quite an event to be involved in and it set the stage for the much-storied reign of Rameses the Great.
 
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