How did the Egyptians build the pyramids?

[cladking]

That should be more than hint of the problems with your beliefs concerning science.

And you just ignore the fact I already stated Egyptology is pseudoscience and showed it with actual facts.

They don't agree because they used magic and the book of the dead and I used metaphysics and reason.

Why do you never address an argument?

I don't really mind because I can respond with facts.

 

[cladking]

No the scientists and Egyptologists do not remotely believe in this foolishness,

You can not name one single Egyptologist who doesn't believe the great pyramids were tombs because there are none. m Not one single one. This is heresy and colleges don't longer will graduate heretics. The world has gone mad in lockstep as the schools failed.

Specialization is a necessary evil and always will be. Most specialists are very sharp and very capable people. But specialists are usually very focused on what everyone else calls minutia. Meanwhile everyone thinks their specialty and all specialties put together is everything that is real even though human knowledge even in aggregate is virtually infinitesimal.

You could understand these words if you made an attempt and then you could tell me what you think. I would call this the art of conversation or the art of argument.

 

[cladking]

No the scientists and Egyptologists do not remotely believe in this foolishness,

You can not name one single Egyptologist who doesn't believe that the men dragging tombs up ramps weren't completely ignorant of modern science and highly superstitious. Not one single one. There is not one who thinks they didn't have beliefs and didn't even have a word for "belief". Schools do not graduate heretics.

 

[cladking]

No the scientists and Egyptologists do not remotely believe in this foolishness,

You can not name one single Egyptologist who believes the Egyptians sed anything we would might call "technology" to build the pyramids . Not one single one. The schools don't graduate heretics. There is not one single Egyptologist who believes there was a dramatic change in culture, history, science, and language between the PT and the book of the dead they used to translate it. The schools don't graduate heretics.

They all believe in changeless savages dragging tombs up ramps so there are no possible points of agreement between me and them.

 

[cladking]

I have responded to your posts for years. Your problem is clinging to ancient mythology and religion, and rejecting science.

You've responded to nothing. Where is your response to the simple fact that the word "ramp" isn't even attested? You've responded to nothing. You have said I'm wrong and then presented your beliefs based on your experts many of whom aren't even experts at all but crackpots on the web.

I know what experts think and you're not even lecturing be with experts as you usually do with Evolution. Your knowledge of this subject is not deep enough to recognize expertise.

 

[cladking]

That could work. The main idea was to not have men straining over each block of stone, but rather create a work effort that can last over the days shift. Carrying a 50 pound pack up a ramp and then a rest as they walk downhill. When it is time to lift the empty sand container back up, the slaves coming down can help pull the rope.

Two other considerations are when moving a weight W up a ramp, the force needed is W* sin(alpha) or a fraction of the weight. This allow the container to be smaller. If the ramp was 20 degrees the weight becomes 0.34W needing less sand.

The real gain is to lower the friction between the stone and the ramp. This can be done with rollers; logs, as show below.

All mechanical advantage by definition increases total work through friction. The problem isn't so much that ramps are impossible to build, they are impossible to operate because total work would be so high you can't enough men on the ramps to do it. This is exactly why even the best engineers have never been able to design a ramping system that would work. Every one of them has severe fatal flaws in logic and design.

There is no solution using ancient technology and materials. Bot enough men can work at one time even if you could design a system. A one foot tall ant couldn't stand up on its flimsy little legs and you can't drag 6 1/2 million tons up a ramp to build and clad a pyramid. It's an engineering impossibility.

If you reduce friction the stone will slide back down a slope and kill people. No matter what you do the total work required is too great. You could design it with modern materials if you could find 40,000 men willing to slave in the desert sun. Good luck with that.

It would only take about 15,000 men to drag the stones straight up the sides from step tops and this work is far easier. Or you could pump water up and use it in counterweights to lift the stones as a few hundred men sat around watching the machines lift them up to the step tops. It is this last that is evidenced at Giza. There were only a couple thousand men, women, and children who did all the work. Women could operate machines as well as men. Ask Rosie the Riveter. Children had numerous functions as well.

The evidence clearly shows how it was done.

 

[cladking]

• When an object moves up a ramp, the force required to move it is reduced compared to lifting it straight upward. This is because the force is distributed over a longer distance.
• The input force required to move the object up the ramp is less than the force required to lift it vertically, but the distance the object moves is greater.

Total work increases.

And you have to build a ramp.

 

[cladking]

This is also the basis of a funicular

No. Not really. A funicular operates on the conversion of Ep to Ek so the same force will operate it no matter how steep, even vertical. The steeper a ramp the more stinky footed bumpkins are needed to drag the load. When it gets too steep the men can't drag the load and steeper yet they can't even walk. A funicular doesn't need a shower and a good meal at the end of a hard days work. Hell, it's better if you don't even water it.

Mechanical advantage becomes insignificant as you approach vertical and so do frictional losses. On the 72 degree step sides where all men feared to tred friction and mechanical advantage are irrelevant except for the lowing of the dndndr-boat.

 

[cladking]

Rollers unfortunately won't work up the side of an unclad pyramid, but a stoneboat would reduce friction losses.

Interesting they still call it a "boat".

The funicular at Giza was two boats tied together.

1376a. The ropes are knotted; the boats of N. are tied together

1742b. The ropes are tied, the boats are assembled,

1766b. ----- the men and his two boats.

It is our brother who is bringing this (boat) for these bridge-girderers (?) of the desert

138c. thou descendest on firm (copper?) cables, on the shoulders of Horus in his name of "He who is in the Ḥnw-boat."

210b. thou risest, thou settest, thou risest with Isis;

1826b. [he lifts thee up into] the ḥnw-boat, in thy name of "Seker."

1771a. To say: N. is a well-equipped spirit, who asks to be ... conducts Rē' into his two boats of mȝ'.t.

These words are invisible to Egyptologists but anyone reading this thread should see them.

 

[Pogo]

Total work increases.

And you have to build a ramp.

Yes there are losses due to friction, unless you have an imaginary skyhook, engineering is all about reducing them.
You have posited something you call a funicular, how does this avoid frictional losses? How does it actually raise the stone?
Where is your evidence for a pump that could pump 600 gallons of water per minute up with the necessary head and just what are the losses in this system. just telling us it wasn't a ramp is ultimately meaningless without a demonstrable alternative.

You are very good at asserting everyone else is wrong, but beyond asserting and claiming you have it all figured out in your head because you understand something that you can't show us exists or even existed. You have done nothing to dissuade anyone from the understanding that your arguments are nothing but a fantasy based on some sort of internal reuse of words and language.

 

[cladking]

You have posited something you call a funicular, how does this avoid frictional losses?

Frictional losses are tiny and irrelevant. You don't need dozens of more men for friction, just a few more gallons of water. It is not only far easier because you don't need men but it is far more efficient so you don't need as much water. You don't need ramps and don't need to take care of thousands and thousands of workers. You need much less materiel and supplies. Less food, Less room for the workers. Less first aid, medical care, and water. Fewer shoes to wear out. Instead of 60,000 men you could have 4000 men women and children exactly as is evidenced.

Instead of digging lots of graves for men mangled in accidents you could have a tiny little builders cemetery with men women and children in it exactly as there is.

That's a lot less friction.

Pyramid building season started on June 21st with a huge 5 day party called the w3g-festival and culminating with the transformation of the king into a pyramid by being cremated on the east side on top of the first step. The pyre was called "the iskn of heaven". The king had been the victim of regicide just a few weeks earlier after failing the Sed and his body dehydrated and mummified for easy burning. He burned like a candle and ascended to heaven on the smoke of incense. After these ceremonies was the the w3g-feast.

This species that built the pyramid was far more highly dependent on ritual than ours. They used all different mnemonics than ours. Ritual and ceremony helped keep them all on the same page. Without abstractions they practiced their humanity in other ways.

 

[Pogo]

No. Not really. A funicular operates on the conversion of Ep to Ek so the same force will operate it no matter how steep, even vertical. The steeper a ramp the more stinky footed bumpkins are needed to drag the load. When it gets too steep the men can't drag the load and steeper yet they can't even walk. A funicular doesn't need a shower and a good meal at the end of a hard days work. Hell, it's better if you don't even water it.

Mechanical advantage becomes insignificant as you approach vertical and so do frictional losses. On the 72 degree step sides where all men feared to tred friction and mechanical advantage are irrelevant except for the lowing of the dndndr-boat.

You still haven't done anything, Work is done raising the block no matter how you do it, there may be ways with more or less friction involved but your solution is either a perpetual motion machine or you are just moving the work around by having people climb the pyramid to provide the ballast to run the funicular which is still just a ramp unless you are imagining some sort of elevator and then magically moving the stones horizontally to where you need them.

One way or another you and the other stinky footed bumpkins are doing the work. It wasn't the priests that are philosophizing about sparrows or was it swallows flying the blocks up because they were writing a story about the amazing rapidity of the construction. It wasn't even the engineers who figured out how to make a corbelled arch to create the internal voids and also figured out the various ways to lessen the frictional losses in the system.

You need to go back to school and finish the classes to get out of stinky footed bumpkin status rather than just claiming the teacher was wrong.

Otherwise, I'll give you the answer I gave my wife when she wanted to know how I raised the front 12' of our log cabin 10+ tons up to replace the sill beam all by myself without any external power. Physics, ie an intelligently applied use of ramps and levers and ropes to multiply my force.

Again, you have learned some words, Ep and Ek but you have not learned the concepts that tie them all together.

 

[cladking]

Where is your evidence for a pump that could pump 600 gallons of water per minute up with the necessary head and just what are the losses in this system.

It wasn't nearly this much water and some was stockpiled at night both within the pyramid but mostly surrounding it. You have to calculate every gallon of water could lift about 12 lbs of stone to the center of gravity at 100% efficiency because it was reused in the cliff face counterweights. This is only 110,000,000 gallons of water or some .2 gl/ sec. Of course efficiency probably increased it to 1/2 gal / sec.

This is the water that caused the copper pollution because it contained copper sulphate et al. It appeared naturally at Giza and men learned to increase the flow and pressure. Heaven was defined by the height it sprayed and at G1 heaven was at 81' 3". This is the altitude at which a structure built above it had a hole in it that allowed the crown of the water to pass through. This hole was the "upper Eye of Horus". The water was channeled to the "queens chamber" which was larger at lower altitude and stored it at night.

They spent centuries learning how to keep these eruption continuous. When it did stop all they had to do was wait a bit and drop some natron (libation) in it.

They stored huge amounts of water all round the pyramid so they could use that when they had to wait. The dndndr-boat was dressed up to look like the head of a bull because it was the Bull of Heaven. The henu-boat on the other side shaped like "the dorsal carapace of a grasshopper"...

1772b. (for) he came forth with the dorsal carapace of a grasshopper,

...had a head of an oryx on it that represented their willingness to work with almost no water because this species needs virtually no water at all and smell rain from 30 miles away.

They had plenty of water. The problem was that like real life when it rained it poured. A lot of times they'd have to release water to protect the dam around the pyramid and other times it was too little to use and it would stagnate and papyrus grow in the queens chamber called the "Marsh of Reeds" et al. At these times when everything stank and there was no work they'd wait for purification, the resumption of water flow.

When they had extra water they used it to lift stones for the step tops and sundry other tasks.

 

[Pogo]

Interesting they still call it a "boat".

The funicular at Giza was two boats tied together.

1376a. The ropes are knotted; the boats of N. are tied together

1742b. The ropes are tied, the boats are assembled,

1766b. ----- the men and his two boats.

It is our brother who is bringing this (boat) for these bridge-girderers (?) of the desert

138c. thou descendest on firm (copper?) cables, on the shoulders of Horus in his name of "He who is in the Ḥnw-boat."

210b. thou risest, thou settest, thou risest with Isis;

1826b. [he lifts thee up into] the ḥnw-boat, in thy name of "Seker."

1771a. To say: N. is a well-equipped spirit, who asks to be ... conducts Rē' into his two boats of mȝ'.t.

These words are invisible to Egyptologists but anyone reading this thread should see them.

Not really, a boat is basically a container to be used to move material across a medium. You put the stuff in and then you apply force to the conglomerate to move it.

 

[Pogo]

All mechanical advantage by definition increases total work through friction. The problem isn't so much that ramps are impossible to build, they are impossible to operate because total work would be so high you can't enough men on the ramps to do it. This is exactly why even the best engineers have never been able to design a ramping system that would work. Every one of them has severe fatal flaws in logic and design.

There is no solution using ancient technology and materials. Bot enough men can work at one time even if you could design a system. A one foot tall ant couldn't stand up on its flimsy little legs and you can't drag 6 1/2 million tons up a ramp to build and clad a pyramid. It's an engineering impossibility.

If you reduce friction the stone will slide back down a slope and kill people. No matter what you do the total work required is too great. You could design it with modern materials if you could find 40,000 men willing to slave in the desert sun. Good luck with that.

It would only take about 15,000 men to drag the stones straight up the sides from step tops and this work is far easier. Or you could pump water up and use it in counterweights to lift the stones as a few hundred men sat around watching the machines lift them up to the step tops. It is this last that is evidenced at Giza. There were only a couple thousand men, women, and children who did all the work. Women could operate machines as well as men. Ask Rosie the Riveter. Children had numerous functions as well.

The evidence clearly shows how it was done.

And they said airplanes are impossible, Just because you can't figure out how it works doesn't mean it is impossible, and just because you have already made up your mind that something is impossible. redefining the words that demonstrate it's possibility does not make you a seer.

 

[cladking]

One way or another you and the other stinky footed bumpkins are doing the work.

I was working on the last post when you put this in.

The gods did the work. "Atum" lifted the water of "nun" and horus sr funneled it isis and nephthys by means of kebehwet. This allowed tefnut's arms to operate at a very great distance to the other side of the pyramid lifting shu and a dndndr-boat full of stones that flew up like the fledglings of swallows.

All homo sapiens had to do was inspect the ropes and slings while operating the equipment. The "Ferryman" loaded the henu boat by operating a weir. he Overseer of the Side of the Pyramid kept everything working like a clockwork pyramid. The Overseer of the Metal Shop made chisels and dm-scepters. The Overseer of Carpenters made sure there were adequate supplies of shm-sceptres as the set-priest oversaw the djed operator and calculated libations. The Overseer of the Boats of Neith Loaded the dndndr-boat that sat on top of the "min". The Weigher/ Reckoner calculated loads and passed that on to the ferryman through signals and children who worked as runners. The sculptors in the quarry cut horuses out of tayet that isis might pull them up to the south side. Sculptors on the top set stones and in the Great Saw Palace curt them to fit. The Anubis Priest on top of the pyramid coordinated the entire work through signals and runners. Riggers were everywhere. There was very little work for laborers and these men probably all spoke Ancient Language which I'd guess was required to work here. On windless days there'd be more work resetting henu boats but most days would be an easy humdrum of hauling ropes to the quarry and loading them to be passed back down the pyramid.

Don't get me wrong. Almost everyone worked very hard and even nobles got wear and tear on their spines and knees from such hard work. But this was a societal norm and does not mean anybody dragged tombs up ramps because the gods did all the real work. Even the women who worked in the builders village worked hard baking, butchering, cleaning, and making conditions tolerable for the 2000 people who lived there through most of the project and up to 6000 in the initial years. The whole place just hummed in one single voice in one single language that was spoken everywhere on the planet but was already beginning to fail. It was this gradual failure that caused the pyramid to be built so we would never forget homo sapiens no matter how much we know everything.

We need to wake up and smell the coffee right behind every thermal anomaly.

 

[Pogo]

It wasn't nearly this much water and some was stockpiled at night both within the pyramid but mostly surrounding it. You have to calculate every gallon of water could lift about 12 lbs of stone to the center of gravity at 100% efficiency because it was reused in the cliff face counterweights. This is only 110,000,000 gallons of water or some .2 gl/ sec. Of course efficiency probably increased it to 1/2 gal / sec.

Now you are going to float the stones up the pyramid, this just gets weirder and weirder.

This is the water that caused the copper pollution because it contained copper sulphate et al. It appeared naturally at Giza and men learned to increase the flow and pressure. Heaven was defined by the height it sprayed and at G1 heaven was at 81' 3". This is the altitude at which a structure built above it had a hole in it that allowed the crown of the water to pass through. This hole was the "upper Eye of Horus". The water was channeled to the "queens chamber" which was larger at lower altitude and stored it at night.

Now you need to tell us how suddenly there was high pressure water available and the work needed to raise the mass was done by a few children rather than by men.
This is again, magic and fantasy, the rules of physics have been in effect since long before the earth came into being, in fact they are responsible for the earth coming into being.
You are just making up stories with some sciency sounding words and wild assertions.

They spent centuries learning how to keep these eruption continuous. When it did stop all they had to do was wait a bit and drop some natron (libation) in it.

Yeah, Right and your evidence for this beyond your personal interpretation of some ancient story?

They stored huge amounts of water all round the pyramid so they could use that when they had to wait. The dndndr-boat was dressed up to look like the head of a bull because it was the Bull of Heaven. The henu-boat on the other side shaped like "the dorsal carapace of a grasshopper"...

1772b. (for) he came forth with the dorsal carapace of a grasshopper,

...had a head of an oryx on it that represented their willingness to work with almost no water because this species needs virtually no water at all and smell rain from 30 miles away.

They had plenty of water. The problem was that like real life when it rained it poured. A lot of times they'd have to release water to protect the dam around the pyramid and other times it was too little to use and it would stagnate and papyrus grow in the queens chamber called the "Marsh of Reeds" et al. At these times when everything stank and there was no work they'd wait for purification, the resumption of water flow.

When they had extra water they used it to lift stones for the step tops and sundry other tasks.

And there was a global flood that covered all of this up and killed all the people and we all die because some broad couldn't keep her hands to herself and that was because Odin and his brothers were messing around with trees and decided to create humans.

Shall we go on?

 

[cladking]

And they said airplanes are impossible, Just because you can't figure out how it works doesn't mean it is impossible, and just because you have already made up your mind that something is impossible. redefining the words that demonstrate it's possibility does not make you a seer.

This is simple. it is impossible that a 6' tall ant could even stand up. It is impossible for 1000 men to pick up a 4 ton stone. It is impossible to build a cladded 6 1/2 million ton pyramid with ancient technology and ramps even if you have a million men.

You can't just make things up like "they mustta used ramps" and have it pop into existence.

I often say we now live in a world with an infinite number of pyramids built with an infinite number of ramps. If "science" says so then it must be true. Reality is what the tools of science says it is and the tools all agree that it mustta been ramps.

It still wasn't ramps and the word is even attested. there may not be a single world anywhere with a single pyramid built with a single ramps. No words can change this fact if it is true. No amount of special pleading or expert opinion can affect it. No ramps.

This is the simplest explanation of why no evidence has ever been found for ramps and no engineer has ever devised a system of ramps that couldda been used. They mustta not used ramps.

 

[cladking]

Yeah, Right and your evidence for this beyond your personal interpretation of some ancient story?

It's not a story at all. Experts say it's a book of incantation and they use it to understand the builders.

Look at that last sentence again and consider the madness that allows it to be true.

 

[cladking]

Now you are going to float the stones up the pyramid, this just gets weirder and weirder.

LINEAR FUNICULARS DO NOT "FLOAT STONES".