How did you arrive at your beliefs?

[Gomeza]

If you don't mind a third party's interpretation, I think he's only trying to point out that you may have some prejudice towards religious folk due to your experience with them. I can easily agree that illogical, fearful "christians" pound their bibles as much as they pound beliefs into their children, but it isn't fair to say that "most people born into the human race" are indoctrinated.

These are the words in contention "Most people born into the human race are indoctrinated from an early age into the religion of their parents" I could have replaced indoctrinated with "introduced" or "exposed to" but both terms imply the child having a choice which is generally not the case.

 

[Gomeza]

In my case, I can't say I was indoctrinated.

Growing up, I didn't have any religious belief forced on me. I was free to go with my Mom to church if I wanted (and sometimes I went), but I was never forced or even persuaded to go - it was completely up to me. While I knew my Dad didn't attend any church, I didn't know until after he died that he was an atheist.

I consider myself an atheist now, but only after having given religion (mainly Catholic Christianity, in an attempt to make my now-estranged wife happy) as good a try as I could muster.

I did try to qualify my statement with the word "most" implying that there are exceptions. I would suggest that your experiences growing up fall into that category. Things are changing now in western societies but anyone born a couple of decades ago or prior, as most on this forum were, being dragged to church was a way of life.

 

[Tarheeler]

....I could have replaced indoctrinated with "introduced" or "exposed to" but both terms imply the child having a choice which is generally not the case.

I don't think either of those terms imply a choice; one is exposed and introduced to ideas simply be being around people who hold them. And I think that is often a very accurate description of how children learn about things, including religion.

 

[Nakosis]

When is the last time you heard a parent say: "Welome home, honey. How did indoctrination go in your algebra class today?"

I fear that our Agnostic Conscientious Contributor doth protest too much.

I don't know, I felt somewhat indoctrinated when I went to school, especially when it came to US History.

I think obviously people rely on their own experiences in calling it indoctrination. I suspect in some families the term is pretty accurate.

 

[4consideration]

All I can say is can you think of a better term to describe how children have been traditionally introduced to their parent's religion around the world?

That way.

My actual experience was that I read the title: "How did you arrive at your beliefs?" and thought I would like to discuss that. But, I then found the rest of the post apparently assuming indoctrination for all religious beliefs. It seemed like you had already answered your own question.

The post does not come across to me as a genuine desire to discuss how, what or why about anyone's beliefs. The rest of the opening post includes things like "imaginary God" and "collective wishful thinking." You are welcome to your opinion, of course. And, you are welcome to start a thread that simply invites others to discuss indoctrination, or whatever you want.

IMO what you really seem to be objecting to is THAT children are introduced into their own parents' religion, not really how.

I just didn't see any open-mindedness expressed or indicated in your post, so I was not inclined to discuss the details with you. I am not trying to be a jerk. I am just trying to communicate accurately and clearly.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Most people ...

A great number...

Remarkably however, the vast majority ...​

I did try to qualify my statement with the word "most" implying that there are exceptions.

How liberal of you.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I suspect in some families the term is pretty accurate.

I am certain of it. I also suspect that others 'indoctrinate' their children against religion. Therefore?

(By the way, Ventura, I was raised in the San Franando Valley.)

 

[Nakosis]

I am certain of it. I also suspect that others 'indoctrinate' their children against religion. Therefore?

Cross your fingers and hope for the better parents?

(By the way, Ventura, I was raised in the San Franando Valley.)

I was born in California, not really happy with how the state has turned out over the years though. San Fernando Valley is Hot... Ventura is cool...

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Cross your fingers and hope for the better parents?

Most do the best they can. I've been fortunate to see some of the best, e.g., a grandmother, her lovely daughter and son-in-law, and two grandkids working together at a local soup kitchen.

I guess some kinds of indoctrination are better than others.

 

[Nakosis]

Most do the best they can. I've been fortunate to see some of the best, e.g., a grandmother, her lovely daughter and son-in-law, and two grandkids working together at a local soup kitchen.

I guess some kinds of indoctrination are better than others.

I was mostly left with an absence of parental input. I guess maybe they felt the public school would provide me with all the education I'd need. I think the only thing they tried to teach me was not to annoy them. I pretty much failed at that lesson anyway.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Oh, well, our snarling Gomeza has gone offline, perhaps to further indoctrinate himself regarding the destructive child rearing techniques typical of theists or, perhaps, simply to hunt for salmon. One can't deduce too much from an avatar. Let's just hope that he's learned that being simultaneously an intelligent theist and a decent, responsible parent is not all that much of a miracle after all.

 

[Adrift]

You are a harsh one. Not that that's a bad thing =P

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

You are a harsh one. Not that that's a bad thing =P

Nonsense. I just like his avatar. Perhaps it's the jutting jaw or the tilt of the head that evokes such a sense of thoughtful introspection.

 

[BruceDLimber]

larger, bolder type . . .

It's not bolder; only larger.

And this is simply for increased legibility: I prefer for stuff to be READABLE.

Nothing whatever to do with beleifs.


bruce

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It's not bolder; only larger.

And this is simply for increased legibility: I prefer for stuff to be READABLE.

Nothing whatever to do with beleifs.


bruce

Oh ... THANKS.

 

[blackout]

Finally, there was nothing left to believe in but mySelf.

(and as it turned out that that's actually where I had been 'believing' all along)

 

[Gomeza]

Finally, there was nothing left to believe in but mySelf.

(and as it turned out that that's actually where I had been 'believing' all along)

Right on, I wish I had put it that way.

 

[Muffled]

Most people born into the human race are indoctrinated from an early age into the religion of their parents. For the most part this is the case across all cultures and across all religions. A great number of people continue in the "family" religion while a growing number of people look elsewhere for answers. Remarkably however, the vast majority of people when asked will answer with a variant of having arrived at their beliefs after careful deliberation.

As a non believer, I would assume that the way I arrived at what I believe is common amongst people of like mind. At a young age I was in a school system that had the express purpose of bible lobotomizing all children within its grasp by the time they were twelve. Somewhere around that age, I began asking difficult questions, that were never adequately answered (What did the carnivores eat on the Ark?). The hypocrisies, inconsistencies and outright whoppers continually perpetrated by the religious folks around me gave me a push in the opposite direction. After years of study, deliberation and careful consideration of the facts, I've come to the conclusion that most of what comes from the mouths of our species concerning their imaginary God is nothing more than a collective form of wishful thinking.

When I am asked: How did you arrive at your beliefs? . . . I am at a point in life where I can answer honestly: through education and maturity.

How about you?

This is fundamentally true for me also although my questions were more philosophical. Where did I come from? What would happen to me when I died? At that time I did not have the answers nor did I ask anyone else. I found my answers later in life through a study of the Bible.

This is probably true for me also. My answers have come slowly and I still find things that I didn't know before.

This is reasonable but the problem is that you have generalized these into thinking that anything religious is bogus. That is a falacius deduction.

This is an unwarrated conclusion. The facts are not with you. THe truh is that you have made up your own imaginary thoughts to support your fallacious thinking.

 

[Muffled]

I was raised as a liberal Christian (though, the religious beliefs in my home varied), not believing in a literal interpretation of the Bible. I guess I was a Christian until a few years after my Confirmation, when I actually started to question if a personal God was active in the world. I concluded that there wasn't since I could find no proof of such a God and I turned to deism, because I couldn't fully let go of God. Reading the Bible actually turned me away from Christianity, because the God I read about in the OT wasn't a God that I wanted to worship. I slowly let go of God and I became an atheist.

Fast forward a few years. I was spending a warm summer night with a few friends out in a park. Lying on the ground, I suddenly realized that I wasn't just an inhabitant of the Universe, I was a part of the Universe myself. The soft grass I was lying on was me, and I was it. I realized that the Universe itself was God.

A few months later, I found out that this was called Pantheism and there you have it.

That isn't a realization; it is an imagination.

If you are going to tell me that you felt you were part of the grass, that would be quite amusing. If you had an "I think therefore I am" moment I would agree with you.

 

[Muffled]

I believe former lifetimes had a lot to do with it.

I would agree with that. And people tend to return to their families, so a family tradition of religion would carry through the ages.